Which NEM651 decoder do you recommend?

[Spaceman Spiff]

G'day, I am going to need a NEM 651 decoder for a Kato TGV train. I was wondering what do you guys recommend?  Digitrax DZ125IN?  ( http://www.digitrax.com/prd_mobdec_dz125IN.php )  The retailer (located in Europe) recommends and sells Doehler & Haass and Kühn decoders.

 

Any suggestions?

 

Spiff

[CaptOblivious]

Just to add another to your list, TCS makes one with an NEM plug as well:

http://www.tcsdcc.com/public_html/Customer_Content/Products/Decoders/N-Scale/EUN651/EUN651.html

 

My experience with most TCS decoders is that they are very robust, although the CN and CN-GP, and Z2 are notable exceptions.

[Martijn Meerts]

It really depends on what kinda functionality you want, and what you're prepared to pay, and what's easily available.

 

The Doehler & Haass ones have very limited functionality, and are overly expensive (this is because Doehler & Haass are the inventors of the Selectrix system, and still the primary supplier of decoders for the Selectrix system. All the Trix, Rautenhaus, Müt, etc. Selectrix/DCC decoders are actually built by D&H). I don't know much about Kühn decoders, other than that they are getting more and more popular.

 

Another thing to consider is how the NEM socket is mounted in the train. For example, I have 2 Kato Class 66 locomotives, both with a NEM socket, however, due to the construction of the train, a standard NEM651 plug won't work. In that case I had to get an ESU lokpilot micro, which has a so-called "wire harness". The lokpilots are quite nice decoders btw, but not cheap.

 

Another option, which should be reasonably easy to find worldwide would be Lenz decoders. The silver+ mini is a good decoder with lots of functions, but again, not the cheapest option.

[quinntopia]

I try to avoid-but keep using- the Digitrax because I've had a few clunkers, but their warranty / replacement service has been awesome and they can't be beat for availablity or price here in the states.  I can also second Martijn's comments on either the Lenz or ESU Lokpilot decoders, although they tend to be pricey.  I also find that its difficult to find dealers with these in stock when you need them.

 

But...I didn't know that TCS made an NEM651 decoder! Thanks Don!  They look to be in the Digitrax price range too!  Whoohoo!

[nik_n_dad]

I've had the most trouble with digitrax.  They seem to work fine in US models (Fox Valley), but have been very poor in European models.  My best luck has been with TCS and Lenz.  I've also had some of the ESU decoders, but I've had very mixed results (ymmv).

 

The biggest issue I've found is getting things to fit.  The length of pins on the decoders varies greatly and I've seen a broad range of how well it fits (and stays put) in the socket.  I've also seen a broad range of spaces in models for the decoders, ranging from the Arnold Krokodil where a TCS doesn't fit to models that has no room for the decoder by the socket but plenty of room for a harness.

 

A new decoder to try (We just installed some into our Thalys) is the TCS EUN651P-18, that comes with an 18mm harness.  http://www.tcsdcc.com/public_html/Customer_Content/Products/Decoders/N-Scale/EUN651/EUN651.html

[Spaceman Spiff]

Thanks for the replies.

 

nik_n_dad, did your Thalys come with nem board included or did you get them separately? 

 

Spiff

[quinntopia]

Another thing to consider is how the NEM socket is mounted in the train. For example, I have 2 Kato Class 66 locomotives, both with a NEM socket, however, due to the construction of the train, a standard NEM651 plug won't work. In that case I had to get an ESU lokpilot micro, which has a so-called "wire harness". The lokpilots are quite nice decoders btw, but not cheap.

 

Martijn, you just touched on one of my pet peeves....you would think that the idea of the NEM 651 would be to make decoder installation as easy as possible.  Unfortunately the issue you mention (had a similar problem with a Fleischman Re485) is very frustrating.  I wish the designers were more considerate of these standards when they are considering where to put the plug!

Spaceman Spiff: If its any help for you, I explained my process to digitize my Thalys on my blog:

http://quinntopia.blogspot.com/2010/01/kato-thalys-decoder-install-notes.html

I'm still learning a lot about this (mostly from the experts here on this forum) but this should encourage you (if I can do it...well......) 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Thanks for the info quinntopia,  I will take a look your link.

[Martijn Meerts]

Another thing to consider is how the NEM socket is mounted in the train. For example, I have 2 Kato Class 66 locomotives, both with a NEM socket, however, due to the construction of the train, a standard NEM651 plug won't work. In that case I had to get an ESU lokpilot micro, which has a so-called "wire harness". The lokpilots are quite nice decoders btw, but not cheap.

 

Martijn, you just touched on one of my pet peeves....you would think that the idea of the NEM 651 would be to make decoder installation as easy as possible.  Unfortunately the issue you mention (had a similar problem with a Fleischman Re485) is very frustrating.  I wish the designers were more considerate of these standards when they are considering where to put the plug!

 

Yeah, it defeats the purpose of having a NEM651 socket if the majority of the decoders won't fit =)

[Spaceman Spiff]

Why can't the manufacturers talk to each other and ensure this stuff is truly plug and play. I think I will try the digitrax nem decoder as it seems like it's the only one carried by my lhs.  They might have the TCS.

 

Spiff

[nik_n_dad]

Spiff-

 

I had to buy the ESU boards like Quinn did.  I still need one more (I seem to have one and need two), but can't find them for sale right now.

 

Quinn-

 

I have a love-hate relationship with the NEM651 decoders.  Yes, when the train is designed right an install is a minute or two.  Unfortunately I've had way too many where I'm ordering a variety of decoders to get one to fit.  The worst has been the Arnold Krokodil that I couldn't get in (I've got someone working on that for me.... for months now)

[quinntopia]

I have a love-hate relationship with the NEM651 decoders.  Yes, when the train is designed right an install is a minute or two.  Unfortunately I've had way too many where I'm ordering a variety of decoders to get one to fit.  The worst has been the Arnold Krokodil that I couldn't get in (I've got someone working on that for me.... for months now)

 

I'm with you  ...when I first got into the hobby I had some knowledge of the difficult process of 'converting' a locomotive to DCC is, and though this NEM 651 thing was the greatest idea ever.  Actually, its a great idea, the implementation is terrible!  The worst (for me) are those stupid Minitrix ports that need to be soldered! What are they thinking?   At least now I know what the problem is with the Minitrix sockets and have stopped bothering my dealer about a locomotive that won't work! 

[Martijn Meerts]

Reviving a bit of an old topic here, since stuff has moved along since the initial discussion :)

 

I've recently installed an ESU Lokpilot Micro v4.0 in my Kato GG1 (I could've used a Digitrax drop-in, I know :)), and I have to say, after playing with it a bit, this is now my decoder of choice (especially for locomotives). The best thing is the motor control, which generally works out of the box for many/most trains, but which also has several CVs for fine tuning everything. Best of all, the manual actual explains reasonably well what all those fine tuning parameters do, and how to go about setting them. Things you can fine tune are how smoothly the motor runs at high speeds and low speeds separately, when the BEMF should kick in, and you can even make adjustments depending on whether a train has a flywheel or not, and the size of the flywheel.

 

It also has a good amount of nice light effects, with the option of some fairly basic conditional logic built into the decoder. There's settings to turn lights on and off with a bit of a pre-glow/after-glow effect, or automatically turn on lights when the train starts running (and turn them off when it stops again), or even dim the lights when the train is at a stop, and go back to full brightness when it starts running again (obviously, all that is only useful for locomotives, not motor cars ;)) Of course there's also the more common stuff like mars lights, gyro lights, ditch lights, as well as simulated firebox flickering ...

 

I haven't really tested everything yet, and the GG1 ran perfect with the standard setting. But an old (30+ years) Arnold steamer definitely benefitted from half an hour worth of fine tuning.

 

 

As for the NEM651, it's on its way out it seems. Minitrix now come with a new plug called Next18, and many others started using the PluX system. Either way, I'm still more than likely to solder all my decoders, even if there's a socket ;)