Points Control

[disturbman]

I'm contemplating the idea of buying some Tomix' Points Control Box for my Fine Track switchs but then I thought than some of you might have another (cheaper and maybe homemade) solution. I'd for the moment use them for my temporary floor layout but I'm thinking to install them on a more permanent one later (once I get to the building stage).

 

Any idea or suggestion?

[cteno4]

disturbman,

 

might check out the bcd circuit as you can do things like having lit leds for direction, cascades, etc and use other switch/button control options.

 

http://www.jnsforum.com/index.php/topic,1260.0.html

 

cheers

 

jeff

[keitaro]

As mentioned in an earlier thread I am a moron when it come to wiring

 

Since wiring next week will be done on the board am going to order a new 2 track controller

 

I am looking at gm although they seem expensive if anyone has any opinions of a different one let me know

 

 

Anyway what I want to ask is Without making another thread

 

If I have a point I.e. The dual track x point and the switch from tomix is all I need to do is connect the point to the switch then the switch to the 12v uncontrolled plug on the df model supply listed on this page ?

 

http://www.gaugemaster.com/controls.html

 

If so if I have multiple switches what would I best be doing 4 point I will have

[Martijn Meerts]

That's a lot of money for something that ugly =)

 

I actually haven't wired up a turnout to a non-digital system for a LONG time. And those I've wired up were of the double solenoid variant (3 wires), but Kato and Tomix use a single solenoid (2 wires.)

[KenS]

I don't know about Tomix, but Kato uses 12V DC to throw their solenoid points.  The GM instructions note that it has a 12V DC output, but they say to use the 12V AC output for solenoids.  I suspect that's wrong for Tomix (and it would certainly be wrong for Kato).

 

The only concern would be if the current supplied isn't adequate to throw the solenoid. They suggest using a CDU, which is a way to supply more current.  I suspect that's only needed for large solenoids (the under-the-table kind) and both Kato and Tomix used very small solenoids. But if you can test it in the store, or ask someone, that might be a good idea before paying that much.

[David]

Both use 12V DC to throw the points. You can even splice together the points/cables to use either brand of controller or box. Since Kato puts their controls on the right, and Tomix on the left, you can actually glue/wire together a Kato blue switchbox and a Tomix switchbox to create an adapter.

 

Also keep in mind that some switches (Kato double crossover) have multiple solenoids which add up to a higher peak amp requirement.

[brill27mcb]

That GM controller spec says 1 amp of fixed 12V DC output, which is plenty. You can compare it to the present Tomix 5506 N-1001-CL controller output of 0.3 A:

 

http://www.trainweb.org/tomix/control/TomixControlSystems.htm

 

The internals of the Tomix "Neo" (blue) switch control box handle the polarity going to the points solenoid. You could just cobble up a connection to the side of the switch control box with the protuding tabs. Your last sentence is unclear, but for additional points snap additional switch control boxes onto the other side of the cobbled one. These are for the modern  2-wire points, not the older 3-wire ones on brown track.

 

The "system" way to do it is through the Tomix 5500 Converter Box, but it includes multiple input options and (apparently) a bridge rectifier in case the power supply is AC, so it is a more expensive solution than you might want.

 

Rich K.

[keitaro]

Brill

 

my layout has 2 electric 2 point switches 1 lef t and 1 right

 

1 double crossover

 

and 1 3way point

 

what i'm saying is to have them running am i ok to wire all 4 tomix switches to one cable then into the supply

 

or do i need to wire these to a box then the box to the supply.

 

I think I have this one only atm https://www.hwjapan.com/sh/seeke.aspx?seek_code=TOX5533

 

it came with the layout d set I bought. which had the double crossover track included with it.

 

 

 

cheers

[brill27mcb]

No, I think you have the Tomix 5532, which controls a pair of electric turnout solenoids, not the 5533. The double-crossover has two solenoids, so it needs this "N-W" (think N-gauge "double"-U) control unit with two output receptacles in the back and that's why the track set D includes a 5532. Your 3-way turnout also has a pair of solenoids, so it too would need a 5532 to control them. Each regular (2-way) turnout will require a "normal"  5531 "N-S" (N-gauge Single) control, with one output receptacle in the back, to connect to the single solenoid. See here, about halfway down:

 

http://www.trainweb.org/tomix/control/TomixControlSystems.htm

 

Also see the picture at the very top.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "switches" which is ambiguous. The "turnouts/points" are not constantly powered to be "running." Each receives a short burst of power, when its control box handle is thrown, to snap from one direction to the other. To control each turnout independently, you need a control unit for each one of them. The "control boxes" all join together electrically in a row, and then you can connect the fixed DC from your power supply to one side of that row.

 

Is that clear?

 

Rich K.

[keitaro]

Yeah thats clear.

 

Switches I mean by the tomix 5532/5531 etc.

 

I was not sure if I need to wire them to a box then to the supply.

 

But that page clarifies everything.

 

Thanks for the link.

[keitaro]

so the supply i am buying has 1 16v ac controlled and 1 12vdc uncontrolled

 

you mention it needs to be controlled dc what will happen if i wire it to the uncontrolled?

[cteno4]

Keitaro,

 

the controlled dc is usually the dc output from a power pack that is variable from 0-12v depending on the throttle setting. the uncontrolled dc is usually just 12v all the time (ie never varies due to the throttle).

 

for points you want to use the 12v uncontrolled output as you want that full 12v there all the time for when ever you throw the point. if you were to use the controlled dc you would need to have the throttle cranked way up to get enough voltage out to throw the point and your train, if connected, would fly off the tracks!

 

are you sure its a 1-16v ac controlled? this wont work to run your trains if it is. usually its 0-12v or 0-16v dc controlled for most N, HO, O scale throttles. all n scale trains work on DC. then they usually have a 16v ac constant (uncontrolled) out and a 12v dc constant (uncontrolled) out as well for accessories like lights and points.

 

hope that helps.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[keitaro]

Twin Track Transformer Controller with Simulation for ‘N’, ‘OO’, and most small Gauges.  The simulator can be switched on or off as required.

 

Input: Mains (240 volts A.C.) use 3 amp fuse  

Output: 2 x 12v D.C. at 1 amp controlled, both with

simulator

Accessories: 2 x 16v A.C. at 1 amp

2 x 12v D.C. at 1 amp uncontrolled

Measurements: 208mm x 90mm x 147mm deep

Weight: 3.135kg

 

 

thats the specs on website

[cteno4]

Keitaro,

 

you want the points hooked up to the 12v dc uncontrolled. this is what folks may call the "fixed" or "constant" dc as its always 12v dc coming out no matter what they throttle is set to.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[keitaro]

awesome thanks.

 

so the 16v ac is that acessories? such as lights and signals?

[cteno4]

yes the 16vac is used a lot for old grain of wheat incandescent bulbs an also for some point motors that have two coils like the atlas points. in these one coil pulls the turnout one way and the other coil pulls it the other way (so it just uses ac to fire one or the other coil, but requires 3 wires to go to the point), whereas kato and tomix uses a dc coil that you just reverse the DC polarity and the coil fires one way or the other. 16vac was the early model train accessory power from cheap power packs. just the controlled dc for the train and a 16vac for accessories.

 

early electronic accessories would also usually build in a little rectifier circuit so that the 16vac could be converted into something like 5 or 6vdc for its own use and you would not have to have special power for them. some still do this and you can feed them ac or dc as well. lots of them now look for 12vdc for power, so having a 12vdc for an accessory buss is now more common an folks use a lot of LED stuff that is also usually now expecting 12vdc.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[keitaro]

ok so i'm about to order switches now and a few other things.

 

I have 1 2 way on left of layout and another on the right connecting a trackto the main line. is it fine to use the 5532 to have both connected to the one switch so the switch at the same time?

[cteno4]

Keitaro,

 

yep thats fine to do, just have to wire the plugs together. we use to do this on the old jrm layout when we wired all the points up. we could switch both points together at either end of a passing track, so that either one track or the other was active both for the train path and power. that way the passing track could store a train.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[keitaro]

thanks ct just ordered 2 5532 and 4 5531's of hw to use up points