Decisions! More trains, more track, more scenery, or what??

[spacecadet]

As is often the case with my hobbies, I've recently come into a very small amount of money that I can spend, and there are a million things I wish I could spend it on!  I don't often ask questions like this, but some of you are a lot further along on your layouts than I am, and I'm wondering what parts of the building process (and by that I mean adding anything to your layout) have been the most satisfying for you.

 

What I have right now is a double-track extended oval (really more of a rectangle), with a single platform, on a grass mat on top of a 4x8 plywood table.  I have a shinkansen 0 series, I'm hopefully getting my Joban line 531 train today or tomorrow, and I have a single Kato DC power pack.  (Meaning to run two trains, I'd either need a new power pack, switch to DCC or just continuously switch the wires back and forth between tracks.)  My eventual goal - though it's kind of a ways off, obviously - is to model a mashup of Ueno and Tokyo stations on one side of my layout, and a suburban/rural scene on the other side.  I'm not trying to be 100% prototypical, mostly just trying to model stuff I've ridden, or that interests me and sort of makes sense.

 

I'm considering the following options for my small amount of money, considering also that I just bought a new train:

 

a) Another new train, most likely either the Tomix 92950 Yumekukan from Plaza Japan, or the Kato Shinkansen 100, both of which are going to be about $230 with shipping.  I wanted the new cassiopeia, but it seems the new cassiopeia sets are sold out everywhere.

 

b) Upgrading to DCC, with a Digitrax Zephyr most likely.  I think this is about $200 for the system then what, $40-$50 to add encoders to my two current trains?

 

c) Getting a bunch of new track, so I'm not just running on an oval without even so much as a switchover.

 

d) Adding a bunch of structures and scenery to my otherwise lifeless layout.

 

e) Some combination of "c" and "d", so I get a couple of new structures and a bit more track to add some variety.

 

What gives you the most satisfaction, just running a bunch of different types of trains, running them more prototypically (with DCC), or having a more lifelike layout?  Ideally I'd love to have all three, but with the amount I can spend it seems I can really only choose one at a time.

 

Also I'm concerned that only Plaza Japan seems to have that Yumekukan train, and that if I don't get it now, I'll never see it again.

 

What would you do?

[Martijn Meerts]

Tough one... It depends on what you enjoy of course.

 

Personally, when I got my first DCC train, I pretty much decided I'd never want to have regular trains anymore. Once you get used to being able to control many trains completely individually, everything else seems wrong. That said, even DCC gets boring on an oval.

 

I guess I'd go for some track first, and maybe try various brands of building, just to get a feel for them.

[Krackel Hopper]

hey hey,

 

I think a lot of this decision is based on what you want, obviously.

 

A) I would go with the Tomix "Yumekukan" over the Kato 100 Series.  

 

B) While I think DCC is cool, I'm still not entirely sold on it, particularly on small layouts.

 

C) A 2nd power pack would be a wonderful idea.  A double crossover, or a couple of turnouts for a storage yard are always nice.

 

D) I feel like giving your trains a sense of purpose is big.  I like running my trains, but I get somewhat bored running them through the vast nothingness of my living room floor.  I wish I had a layout.  My biggest problem is I cannot decide on a layout.  I keep jumping around between Ttrak, designing my own modular layout, or making a smaller (2x4', 3x6') layout.  I have a growing number of Greenmax structures getting built, but I just cannot decide a layout for them to get placed on.

 

Long story short, I would go with (A or E) the Tomix "Yumekukan" or a powerpack, turnout, building combo.

[cteno4]

Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding (as the simpsons say)!

 

i would go for a second power pack, maybe some more track to do a passing siding or something for the future, maybe with the station, and some buildings. maybe a little $ into some cheap, basic scenery materials and tools if needed. IMHO this will give you a lot of bang for the buck i think in playing with the layout. reasoning:

 

• for now you can play around with a bunch of buildings to get ideas for how you might want to have things in the future. lots of buildings out there that are good bang for the buck (look at the tomytec town sets)

 

• a bit of extra track also lets you play with ideas as well on the layout

 

• extra throttle will let you play with two trains at once (you have 2 now), much more fun than one! going DCC will be an ongoing cost and effort as well as the initial investment, so that you should really be ready with the investment time, money, commitment, and skills to do. not saying dcc is not great thing to do, but with japanese trains its a bit more complex with passenger trains if you want to put decoders in for the end lights as well. also requires some tech knowledge, not huge, but there is some learning curve there, easy for many, but challenging for some. all that being said starting out when you have only a few trains to convert to dcc does lower the bar a lot, when you have dozens of trains the time and cost investment really rises to the point that it can make getting started in dcc harder and harder!

 

• basic scenery stuff can be pretty cheap, its more of a developing some skills and time to do it. thats why having some basic materials and tools will let you start playing with scenery techniques for what you might eventually want to do. start with little movable sections of scenery on styrene bases that you can move around with your structures and track. amazing what a few well placed bits of scenery can do to create a wonderful perceived scenery in the mind's eye. lots of scenery elements can be done really really cheaply

 

• another train is great, but with limited funds i think keeping your interest and excitement up with the rest of the layout planning/evolution can give you a much better bang for the buck right now than having a third train to run. may also help you zero in on what kinds of trains you want to start collecting as well as your interests focus with the layout, scenes, etc. unless there is a lot of extra cash laying around, collecting trains can really suck up a lot of $$, especially right now with the yen so high.

 

have fun!

 

cheers

 

jeff

[disturbman]

Eventhough I'm a sucker for more (more more more) new trains I think I'll go with more track, some scenery and a second power pack.

[spacecadet]

Eventhough I'm a sucker for more (more more more) new trains I think I'll go with more track, some scenery and a second power pack.

 

Yeah based on the replies so far, this seems to be the emerging consensus... and could very well be what I end up doing.  I think if I'd come into this money through my job or some other normal means, it'd be a no-brainer and I'd definitely go ahead and do that.  The one thing that's got me thinking "new train" instead is that I got this money by selling an old train that I really didn't want to sell, and I kind of regret it.

 

But I do definitely get bored just sitting and watching one train run around an oval.  So I will probably end up getting structures and track.  I'm still not sure if another power pack is really worth it if I plan on doing DCC at some point (or even now; having two trains and one power pack is one reason why I thought I should do it now, so I don't waste money on another DC power pack.)

[disturbman]

Then, in that case, maybe you should buy a new train. But choose it carefully and make it one you really want and are going to enjoy for a long time, make it special (like a Nankai Rapi:t or a Doraemon Train). You can also try to buy something not as expensive as the Yumekan and keep some money for more track and a power pack (which can be a cheap second hand unit ; I use myself a now ~15 year old Fleischmann along a brand new Tomix). Having two trains running and some points will definetely make a change to the way you enjoy your trains.

[Bernard]

Planning now and for the future. Pick up items that you will be able to also use on a future layout and I would use the current layout to hone your skills in other areas.

We have all made mistakes on earlier layouts and learned from those mistakes not to repeat them on our next layout. So I would skip the DCC system for now, go with structures, scenery and the 2nd power pack (choice "E")

[inobu]

I would look at it from the ROEI (Return on Entertainment Investment). A DCC system will give you the most entertainment return with what you have invested so far. Another train would only be an "addition too" not an enhancement to your current modeling experience.  

 

A Zephyr and 2 decoders puts you in a position to better enjoy what you have currently and get a feel on the direction you want to go. DCC gives you the ability to manage your trains on your layout. That is what the modeling experience is about.

 

I always stress JMRI (computer access into modeling ) because it is free and easy to deploy. Being able to use your existing ipod,iphone or android phone as a controller is better than having to buy one or two.

 

I would not worry about scenery yet. Get a handle on setting up a working layout and learn the ropes is key to moving forward.

 

 

Modeling your trains layout is like a dream vacation. It is quickly conceived, easily imagined and takes a lot of money and effort to do.

 

Inobu

 

LOL: we all are pointing go this way. :confused2: 

 

[KenS]

I'd say that with a loop of double-track and two trains, the reasonable "one thing" purchase would be a power pack.  Unless you're really happy running one train at a time and want variety (in which case, a train).  As others have said, it's your preference that matters.

 

And while the Yumekukan may well show up again, if you really want it, jump now.  It sounds like you want it, so that may well be the best choice for you.

 

But if you're going the powerpack route, there's a decision to make.  If you expect to go to DCC in the next couple of years, a second DC power pack is a poor investment.  If you don't want to go DCC just yet, spend the money on something else, like a train or buildings/scenery.  But once you go to DCC, one power pack is very handy to have, but a second is just redundant (mind, I've got five of the things, so I'm hardly one to talk; one lives on my test track, two provide a DC option for two tracks on my layout, and two are ancient HO models I don't use any more). I have them because the first N-scale layout was DC, and I had a two track loop plus a branch, and wanted to run three trains (and I didn't want to use the old HO relics). But if I'd been thinking, I'd never have bought #5, and probably not #4.

 

DCC is either going to be a fair bit of work (if you do the conversions) or a fair bit of an expense (if you pay someone) on top of the basic decoder cost (US$50 - US$75 for three per train, depending on decoder models).  If you like the benefits enough (or enjoy mucking about with electronics) it's a good thing.  But it's hardly necessary at your current stage.  The only question is whether to make the switch now so you can grow with DCC, or wait and convert more trains in bulk later.

 

The benefits being: better slow speed operation than most DC packs, continuous lighting for lit trains, more than one train with much simpler wiring, and ability to do things like add DCC-controlled turnouts you can switch from the throttle.

 

If you're going DCC, the Zephyr is a good system, although you may want to pay for the new Zephyr Xtra (DCS51; up to 20 trains instead of 10, and extra function buttons on the Zephyr itself for sound-equipped trains).  However, the basic Zephyr (DCS50) is quite a bit less, and how likely are you to run 11+ trains? (an extra throttle with buttons for sound can be added to the DCS50 later, so you're not losing there). As a place to economize, a DCS50 is probably a good choice, if you can find one (I note that MB Klein now only stocks the Xtra, at US$170).

[spacecadet]

Thanks for all the replies.  I still haven't made a decision, but I'm leaning more and more away from buying another train right now.  I think I'll either go for DCC or some track/structures.  Regarding DCC, I don't mind a bit of disassembly and soldering - this is actually my "other" hobby :)

 

Probably my one impediment to upgrading now is just that I'd need to do a lot of research beforehand.

 

Anyway, thanks for the help - I'm sure I'm overthinking as I always do, but it's rare that I have any money to spend so I want to spend it as wisely as possible..

[Sir Madog]

Maybe a little late, but here is what I´d do:

 

Before spending any money on rolling stock, track, a DCC system or scenery items, I would develop a track plan for the layout I´d like to have. On a simple oval, you can run only one train at a time, for which you don´t need DCC to enjoy it. Adding scenery will not improve the operation of it and a new train will be nice to have, but, alas, you can run only one at a time.

 

Make a plan of your future layout. This will show your requirements. Start to build that layout and add rolling stock, maybe a DCC system and scenery once you have the track up.

[Martijn Meerts]

Spacecadet, modifying a guitar is a bit different from modifying a locomotive though ;) In most cases though, it's not difficult, but it can be a lot of work. And every now and then, it's just a pain in the butt when some manufacturer decides to make it as hard as possible on you ;)

 

 

Ulrich has a point as well, it's always nice to have some sort of track plan to work towards, even if that track plan won't be realized anytime soon. As you're planning on going DCC, you might need to take that into consideration when drawing up a track plan though. If, for example, you want computer control at some point, it's best to keep in mind where the various blocks will need to be.

[spacecadet]

Spacecadet, modifying a guitar is a bit different from modifying a locomotive though ;) In most cases though, it's not difficult, but it can be a lot of work.

 

Well the only thing I'm worried about is the scale of everything.  It seems to me that the basic skills of modifying a guitar are the same as modifying a locomotive, but everything's just a lot smaller.  On a guitar, you've got filing, drilling, soldering, and keeping track of a lot of electrical connections, which seem like the same skills I'd need to install DCC on a train, but an N scale power car is just tiny in comparison.

 

One of my two trains is DCC friendly and the other I've read is "not difficult" to modify, though I haven't found an actual procedure for it.  My plan has always been to stay with DCC friendly trains for the most part, though I don't know how close I'll be able to keep to that.

 

Regarding the track plan, I have a basic plan and I know the basic parts I need, so I'm not just thinking randomly.  It's going to take quite a while to build up, though, and I do plan to keep the oval as part of the plan for my local trains.  The next pieces of the overall plan are going to be a small yard, an under/over middle section with a bridge, and a raised viaduct section for the shinkansens.  Eventually I'll have a large station/terminal on a new 4x4 table section where all my lines can join (this will be my mashup of Ueno and Tokyo stations) and some can terminate/a few can run through and loop back around.  The large station area is probably going to be the last thing I do, but I could build the under/over section now, the small yard, and if I spent all of my money on track, probably the viaduct tracks too.  I don't really feel like I have enough trains to justify all that, though (and I can't control it with one power pack anyway), so I probably won't do that all right now.  I might just do the middle bridge section until I get more trains.

[cteno4]

Spacecadet,

 

for no money you could attempt dcc surgery to see if its something you want to continue to do. just install all the wires into one of your trains thats easier and just wire them together then (ie no decoder). breaking the power feed and diverting it is 90% of the decoder install issue. other issue is rewiring power to any lighting in the unit. these points are the really fiddly points some hate. there can be a little of creating the space for the decoder as well in some locos.

 

the rest is then mainly then technical with the programming and operation of the decoder with your dcc system then.

 

im a big fan of trying an inexpensive experiment when it comes to big things like this if you can, better than getting trapped later! while i am a good fiddler and enjoy tinkering inside trains, i worry that after a dozen installs i may get tired of doing that and it becomes a chore then (not fun with a hobby) and i have a pretty big roster to attack...

 

i have thought of doing this myself over time so that the trains become dcc ready with a little socket so when i do finally decide to invest in going dcc i can pop them in fast later, but for now just run them dc. always figure decoders and controllers will just get better, smaller and cheaper with time anyway.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[Tosaden]

• extra throttle will let you play with two trains at once (you have 2 now), much more fun than one!

 

Of course it make more fun to run two trains, but remember you have two hands and two eyes, but only one brain ;-)

 

I use DCC on my H0 layout and drive often two cars at the same time, but is very difficult to keep track of everythink and not to be confused ;-)

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Add scenery, anything is better than nothing.

 

Look for used Unitrack.

 

I scored a collection from someone getting out of N scale. I got plenty to keep me busy and now I just need a DCC controller for the 2 DCC equipped locos.

 

Nothing was used. Just out of the package.

[The_Ghan]

The best thing you could do is let me take care of that money for you ... but that's just my opinion! 

 

On the serious side, I'd go digital and get some more track if I were you.  It is great to run several trains at the same time!

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan