Unitrack Meter Modules

[Guest Closed Account 1]

I just joined an N Scale club and I must say, I expected more from the first meeting rather than planning something 5 months in advance when all the Ntrack modules are already done. I feel kinda shunned for having modern trains. I cannot run my Shinkansen through their tunnels for fear of losing the Catenary pickups.

 

They offered me an old module to practice on but, Unitrack Double track is not going to mate up with the standard 3 straight lines. So in comes my creativity.

 

Why not adopt a module standard similar to JRM's Meter modules and make a layout I'll be happy with and that encourages the conservative members to assist?

 

1000mm X 500mm modules.

 

Do I have to be a club to bring my layout to a show if the club rejects it? Honestly, the layout plan with reflect the future of High speed rail in the US Southwest. So I'd expect to raise some eyebrows.

 

Your thoughts please.

[Martijn Meerts]

I'm pretty much in the same boat. No clubs nearby that do N-scale, let alone Japanese N-scale. I've started doing my own modules (or sections really, considering I don't stick to a standard), and I hope at some point I can go to shows as well. I don't think you need to be in a club to go to a show, or at least, not for all shows.

[brill27mcb]

I have mulled this over, too, for high-speed passenger trains. My solution would be to follow NTrak basically. Tomix track spacing, at 37mm, is basically the NTrak 1 1/2 inch standard (about 38mm). I would use Tomix track, so I can take advantage of their very large 539/502mm double track viaduct for the corner modules for a shinkansen-like track. (Kato doesn't offer anything close, although you could use their 718mm curves and fiddle around to make the parallel second track.) I would put the third NTrak track farther back on the modules, in the approved "alternate" position, as a regional or electric railway line. I would also build the modules to a length that accommodates the sectional track length multiples.

 

Most shows do not care if you are a club or an individual, in my experience. Doing a show without others to help in setup and all-day coverage is not advisable, though.

 

Rich K.

[Guest Closed Account 1]

I did not mean that I'd set up my private layout at a show without help.

 

Wait, in Ntrak the module edges must mate to the next module as per the standard. This doesn't work with double track. The ends of my 'scene' will have to conform.

 

The best I could do on Ntrak is run a Viaduct set with a 9 foot station over the single unitracks below and a yard. I suppose out of all that straight track an asymmetrical layout could evolve. Track 2 or 3 takes the train into the Shinkansen line. Its the banked turns that I really want to incorporate.

[cteno4]

Webskipper,

 

You can see why we formed jrm! luckily we had the critical mass here to do this. we used the 18" x 1m modules for the new jrm layout to allow us to do a sectional style layout that would give us our two viaduct shinkansen tracks and two local/express tracks. we did not standardize the module junction track locations, but designed the layout in the table space we had and just made sure that there were track junctions at all the module junctions. the module size was chosen to give us enough room for some scenery as well as get all 4 tracks in and also be able to fit into the back seat of a smaller car.

 

Pre JRM i had the same notion of doing a 2 or 3 module Ntrak set up similar to what i think you are planning. i was going to have the three n trak (with the 1.5" spacing] going down the center of a large shinkansen station along with at least one passing track on each of the outside lines. the modules were going to be 3' deep (extended 6" on the front and back) and dropped 2" from the normal level. then have a 2 line unitrak local/express layout on the lower level that would be independent of the Ntrak track. for the ntrak lines i was just thinking of using concrete rail flex track thru the station, but perhaps unitrak. unitrak is allowed on Ntrak.

 

seemed like a way to get all i wanted along being able to run with a larger layout. i also mocked up the idea of creating two loop back end modules that would have a special set of tracks to pull the three tracks into 2 and the final spacing from 1.5" down to the 33mm kato spacing. then double viaduct U. then a set of thin modules along the back side to connect them with maybe rural and industrial scenery. this way the modules could become a full layout.

 

there are a few challenges in a setup like this. your module connections are a bit trickier, but not impossible to work out. there have been sunken modules like this in the past with ntrak so there are some examples out there.

 

lately i have been thinking of reviving this idea as a stopgap to doing a layout myself, but also a bit lothe to get time sucked into another club, jrm is a lot of investment as is.

 

Youre Ntrak club should have full NMRA clearances on their tunnels so your trains should run through fine with the pantographs down or even partially raised.

 

stick to your guns, you should be able to run your more modern japanese trains as much as folks run other stuff if it is a fair club. It will be good for them to get some exposure to other things and i bet at shows will get a lot more reaction than another string of coal cars -- especially if you run a 16 car shinkansen on a larger ntrak setup!

 

one of the big bennies of ntrak layouts with japanese trains is you get to run a 16 car shinkansen on lonnnng straightaways!

 

check out the two japanese themed ntrak modules Cotton Bowen did here wtih northern virginia ntrak club, quite stunning and shows you want can be done to really create a great scene!

 

http://japanrailmodelers.org/pages/modelingjapan/modulesofjapan.html

 

maybe think about just doing a single japanese themed module with the ntrak club w/o the station to begin with. just get your feet wet and with a module you will be more part of the club and maybe start winning some folks over, especially if the module really comes out neat! think of all the cool tomytec buildings you could do on the module! it would be pretty easy to look really cool and if you go hyper detailed it would both fit the bill for crammed japanese scenes as well as really stand out! that with some 16 car shinkansens running around the layout may get you enough followers for your own little club or sub japanese ntrak group!

 

cheers

 

jeff

[Guest Closed Account 1]

have a special set of tracks to pull the three tracks into 2 and the final spacing from 1.5" down to the 33mm kato spacing

 

Pantographs (term missing from my written/oral vocabulary)

 

Eureka! Flexible track or some switches to make the planned Uni-Ntrack modules conform. I can make the first switch secure so that I can prevent 40 car consists entering the Bullet rails. When the Bullets are parked they may as well be next to the stations.

 

I bet I could design some light weight 72" modules that will be accepted.  Maybe the club is feeling me out to see what I can do? No Japanese theme. Maybe adobe some buildings with SW tones rather than the brighter Kato colors. Going to use Summer ReadyGrass for the substrate. Looks pretty realistic when compared to desert with lots of vegetation from 57 feet on Google Earth.

 

Getting a club Ntrak module Tuesday that needs TLC and the new 12gauge wiring for DCC. I got permission from the club to strip it and start over.  You can bet I'll be up late tweaking plans that originate and terminate with the 3 standard Ntrak tracks.

[Bernard]

Web - Would you mind starting a thread on your N scale module and how it develops? I'd love to see a photo of the module that needs TLC.

[cteno4]

Web,

 

i was thinking of the 3 ntrak lines down the center of the station with platforms along each of the outer two lines and then passing tracks coming off each of the outer two ntrak lines as well going down the other side of the platforms. these are then storage tracks for a couple of bullet trains off the ntrak lines.

 

I would suggest you experiment some and really try to do some interesting things on this test module and wow the club. instead of trying to conform or make something hybrid, go ahead and try japanese all out, but done well and interesting. this will really stand out compared with most of the other ntrak modules as so many look the same. quality always gets respect. this will also let you experiment with scenery techniques, scenes, etc. also learn the ins and outs of ntrak modules before starting on the grand set of modules.

 

i would avoid doing 72" modules as you are getting to the size that gets hard to handle and transport. 2' x 4' ntrak modules are getting a bit on the hard side for one person to move and transport.

 

cheers,

 

jeff

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Bernard:

 

Sure. Maybe a blog?

 

cteno4:

 

Yeah. The KISS rule applies to everything.  Keep it simple stupid.

 

Till then...

 

Merry Christmas, and to all a good night!

[cteno4]

yep im a big fan of the KISS principle, but im also known for getting wild ideas and having to get real with myself!

 

its important not to bite off too big of a bite in the early stages of layouts as this is where you can get bogged down and frustrated or not see enough things start working soon and thus loose the positive feedback. this is really common event in model railroading.

 

also important to learn how you like to do things, find new techniques to use and learn what you are not good at by doing smaller experiments rather than run into it in the middle of a big project!

 

best of luck, look forward to seeing the progress.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[Bernard]

Bernard:

 

Sure. Maybe a blog?

 

cteno4:

 

Yeah. The KISS rule applies to everything.  Keep it simple stupid.

 

Till then...

 

Merry Christmas, and to all a good night!

 

 

I have to admit I read "Personal Projects" sooner than I read blogs. I can't wait to see the photos of what you have to work with. I sounds like you are in the minority in the club of what you model, Japanese trains.....but at open houses where the general public gets to see the trains run, people are going to find your collection interesting because most of them have never seen trains like yours before. 

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Thanks guys. As much as we plan and foresee scenarios in our heads like Chess moves, there's always that snafu that makes us step back and rework the plans. Adapt and Overcome.

 

Can I get a measurement off the standard Kato 20860 Mainline Passing Siding Set Variation 1 (LxW). I'm wondering if it will fit on the Ntrak module Main Red Line without adding real estate to the module.  I have 3.5" to add a siding set to lead off to the Shinkansen Line. The 800 should sit pretty next to the station

 

Rules state:

*Minimum setback from front of module is 2".

*Branch line: Minimum track spacing is 1-1/4" (31.75mm).

 

That means Kato Double Track is acceptable. (33mm)

 

Jeff: Where did you find the Cherry Blossom Trees? Or did you make them?

[cteno4]

the track for the siding to go around the platforms with the #6 turnouts is just the turnout with a 64mm off the diverging side, then a 718 to bring it back parallel. this creates the proper spacing to allow the use of the kato platforms between the two tracks. it also makes the track spacing on both legs of the sidings come in line.

 

you can add to the front of the module for more room.

 

man you and cotton got me thinking about the ntrak modules again! yet one more project!

 

beware if you are dropping the surface of your module down lower than the regular ntrak top you will need about 6" on each end to create a box which transitions your ends up to the regular module 4.5" deep end so that it can clamp normally. this can be minimized if you have custom clamps at your ends that come with your modules to clamp properly to standard modules.

 

the cherry blossoms were standard kawai cherry blossoms, not the grade up ones. leaves on the ground were some pink flocking i had from i think bosch.

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10056612

 

would not be hard to make with wire armatures and some pink flocking, but at like $1 ea the kawai are not bad priced as you dont need a forest of them! kawai has started some grade up nice trees, but these start at like $7 per tree!

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10108685

 

cheers

 

jeff

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Ok. I sketched the 3 community track ends on graph paper for some reality checks.

 

A siding set will fit, as long as anything more than a 1" quarter round or clever railing is used.  Then the Private line begins. As stated in the manual, the Kato Double track conform to the private track spacing. They want 18" radius, the super elevated stuff is 15" - 16 3/8". The 481mm is 19"

 

PG 22 http://www.ntrak.org/Documents/Manual.pdf

 

Maybe a waiver is in order?

[cteno4]

i would not try fighting ntrak standards, that will just get you no joy with the club. they have been doing this for quite a while and are not into bending the rules at this point as its all about interoperability.

 

you can always have your own corners or turnback modules that you use at home and then your main station module follow all the ntrak standard for the main three tracks. other tracks you have on that module can be what ever you want to if its not part of the main three lines. you can always bring the 3 1.5" lines to kato spacing on your own home end modules.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[Bernard]

Web - I couldn't agree more with Jeff's statement. That is a serious 24 page manual on the set up of a module and Ntraks have been around for ages. Plus you are in a minority as to what you will be running. My advice, stick to the plans, have fun, and introduce members of your club to interesting and creative designs of trains from Japan.

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Yeah that's pretty much my thoughts, too.

 

As with most seasoned hobbies, it's always a challenge attracting and keeping the younger crowds.

 

As for the banked turns well, maybe when Kato releases the single banked turns they'll use the wider radii.

 

Single tracks are what they really want on Ntrak. Not cool Flash Gordon pretzel tracks.

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Got the module today.  Pretty happy with it over all as it provides a physical guide for dimensions; for the new fresh module.

 

Look for this old N-trak module in the personal projects area.

[marknewton]

Single tracks are what they really want on Ntrak. Not cool Flash Gordon pretzel tracks.

 

LOL! I've always wondered why N-track uses three tracks, seems to me an odd choice. No doubt there are places in the world with three running lines, but they're hardly common I suspect.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[Krackel Hopper]

LOL! I've always wondered why N-track uses three tracks, seems to me an odd choice. No doubt there are places in the world with three running lines, but they're hardly common I suspect.

 

I've wondered that too.. I have a feeling they (whoever "they" are) decided that two tracks was just not enough for running purposes.. and four tracks was a little too much.  Plus, 3 is one of those visually appealing numbers.

 

There is a small Ntrak club where I live.  They are really nice guys, but they have a different focus than I do.  Aside from the obvious (them - US, me - Japan), they like to get together and do the whole "running sessions" where they make little schedules and time tables.. that sort of thing.  I am more of the "Lets have a beer and run some cool trains on this nice layout."  They are also very "prototypical".  My collection seems to be starting to focus around Hokkaido, and while I'm sure I will build scenery to interpret that, I have no desire to model a specific station, during a specific year with said specific rolling stock.  I have nothing against those who want to model that way, I think it shows some serious dedication.  For now at least, I just want to collect things I like.. no matter where or when they are from.

 

Sort of like Webskip, I am torn on exactly what to do for a layout.  I like Ntrak, but I personally want to use Tomix (or Kato) track.  I've been dancing around with Ttrak, but I'd like to make some slightly "bigger" scenes.  I also keep thinking I should just make a small layout with Tomix super-mini, that could run trams, Btrains and other small cars.  I have stacks of buildings and scenes, just waiting for me to decide on a modular system to use.. bleh..

 

Webskipper - it's good to hear the Ntrak club has given you a module to play with.  I suppose it will help determine if you really want to use Ntrak for your own stuff.

[cteno4]

LOL, Krackel, join the club. ive been in the same boat for the last 7 years with the same leanings toward maybe modular, maybe a layout, ttrak, ntrak, mini tram layout all swirlling around with lots of structures and scene ideas just waiting for the layout to go! the thing that has mostly kept me in my holding loop though has been the jrm layouts as i pretty much spent all my train time on them and helping other members of the club on their ttrak and layout construction.

 

im finally starting to settle down to some serious thinking on the home layout now though. did some ttrak, but was finding that it was not quite what i wanted to put lots of effort into right now, so will be putting that on the shelf for a while as i can see coming back to it later for some fun.

 

i also think im not going to do the modular/sectional layout i was thinking of for a while (like the jrm layout) and now back to the full on home layout. it is going to be in nice sized sections though that can easily be separated and crated as i know if i ever started a built in layout it would be the ultimate murphys that we would then move!

 

webskipper did get me thinking again about the ntrak set up though. its very tantalizing as it can be a pretty good sized stand alone layout only problem is its not so great to fit in my basement or office space as its more of a 360 viewing layout, but i could put it on wheels to roll around in the office space... i do like the idea of running with a larger club and having them do most of the big setup work (with jrm it all falls on just a few of us every time) and running some shinkansens on some seriously long stretches of track, but not sure if yet another club is a good idea!

 

starting to feel like i just need to pick something and jump in soon as jrm is getting much closer to finished and wont have to spend as much time with that stuff.

 

seeing curt's layout a number of time really makes you yearn for a full on layout. problem is like curt has mentioned that getting a layout to that point takes a whole lot of time and effort, so doing something sectional or modular does help break things up into a bite-sized pieces, but unless its someone else's (ie a club) modular standard you are still stuck with a long time before you have a functional layout if you go a module at a time. laying down the track and electrical for the jrm layout was not too horrible a task to get it up to a functional layout, the module building was probably as much work as the track laying. then maybe work on a module at a time with scenery. if i end up sticking with mostly unitrak i could do the whole layout benchwork and have the track up and running (if not attached) pretty fast as well, then work on attaching and doing the flex track i might want in places to get some big shinkansen curves in, then scenery a section at a time.

 

arrrh to many choices!

 

what ever the case i think im definitely going to do what curt has been talking about as modular scenes. doing scenes on small bases that can pop into the layout. want to be able to change things around easily with time and also perhaps share some scenery elements with the jrm layout, ttrak and the home layout. also will be easier to detail than trying to do it in the center of the layout! only the big scenery stuff and roads would be built in. also starting to look at an option to do small rechargable lithium ion batteries for led lights in buildings as a possibility and just do reed switches to turn on/off. the JST connectors are cheap enough though to perhaps just use those instead and wire a power bus on anything the buildings would go onto.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[Kamiyacho]

And when you cannot decide.... do them all.

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Just to tease you guys about using the N-Trak 1.219M long modules, here is how 4 pieces of Kato Double Track measure against the N-trak standards.  With the 62mm piece that gets you close enough for the Kato Expander track to do its job. My club uses them exclusively for all the modules.

 

Track Spacing?  Ohhhhh so close, 4mm off. Little bit of flex track should do the trick so that double track can be used for the modern look. The Kato Double curves do not meet the 18" (457mm) minimum radius of the Branch Line (third line). The main lines require a 24" (610mm) radius. Stinks. Although it does provide for faster speeds.

 

So the track mathematics are possible. 

 

Remember, in N-Trak, the first 4 inches of the 3 community tracks be in the standard locations and straight on both ends of your module layout (table #1 through infinity). Beyond that, they can snake off into the sunset.

 

First 2 lines, no grade, 3rd line up to 1.5% grade.