Kato E5 Shinkansen

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Bullet Comparison Picture

[cteno4]

someone had a kit bashed E5 on our sister clubs layout in Iwate recently.

 

now im hoping tomix will also do this model with the n700 all wheel pickup!

 

http://www4.hp-ez.com/img/iwatetsu/a_115361_0.jpg

 

cheers

 

jeff

[clem24]

The more I think about it the more I am definitely going to wait this one out. Definitely not worried about it going out of stock as Shinkansen models are usually available in huge abundances soon after release. I am really hoping Tomix will make an awesome model and will have some new feature in it that makes it a must have. Otherwise no biggie, I'll just order this model! 40 wheel pick up > tilting any day! Has Tomix even announced this item yet??

[Martijn Meerts]

Don't think Tomix has announced it, pretty sure they will release it at some point though. I'm not sure what kinda new features would make it a must-have, I can't think of anything other than factory equipped with a sound decoder, which isn't very likely ;)

[westfalen]

Don't think Tomix has announced it, pretty sure they will release it at some point though. I'm not sure what kinda new features would make it a must-have, I can't think of anything other than factory equipped with a sound decoder, which isn't very likely ;)

 

What would a Shinkansen sound decoder do, make a loud whooshing sound as it goes past?

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Horn and turbine sound?

 

What does a Bullet train horn sound like?

[Martijn Meerts]

There's a lot of sounds you could add.. station announcements, horns, engine start up, acceleration, break squeal etc.

 

But other than a sound decoder for example, what you Tomix add as new feature to make it special?

[clem24]

There's a lot of sounds you could add.. station announcements, horns, engine start up, acceleration, break squeal etc.

 

Don't forget the annoying "beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep" when the train enters or leaves a station.

 

And a E5 flying by would sound like pppffffffffffffffffffffPEW-PEW-PEW-PEW-PEW-PEW-PEW-PEW-PEW-PEEEEEEheeeeeeeewwwweeewwweeewwwweeewwweeewww

 

Yeah I am bored.

[Nozomi4ever]

There's a lot of sounds you could add.. station announcements, horns, engine start up, acceleration, break squeal etc.

 

But other than a sound decoder for example, what you Tomix add as new feature to make it special?

 

 

yeah.. I want it to be comissioned with ESU Loksound..(Just like other Japanese Prototypes)

Sound functions will be: (If introduced)

F0 electric engine surrounding sound        F3 Japanese station annoucements                              F6 wipers on/off            F9 Horn

F1 Pantograph up                                  F4 Onboard train annnoucements(Japanese and English)  F7 Headlights on/off      F10 exhaust

F2 Pantograph Down                              F5 Doors open/close                                                  F8 Whistle blowing        F11 lights on/off

[David]

There's a lot of sounds you could add.. station announcements, horns, engine start up, acceleration, break squeal etc.

 

But other than a sound decoder for example, what you Tomix add as new feature to make it special?

 

 

yeah.. I want it to be comissioned with ESU Loksound..(Just like other Japanese Prototypes)

Sound functions will be: (If introduced)

F0 electric engine surrounding sound        F3 Japanese station annoucements                              F6 wipers on/off            F9 Horn

F1 Pantograph up                                  F4 Onboard train annnoucements(Japanese and English)  F7 Headlights on/off       F10 exhaust

F2 Pantograph Down                              F5 Doors open/close                                                  F8 Whistle blowing         F11 lights on/off

 

 

 

It would be interesting to get sound in Japanese trains, I've always thought there was plenty of room in one of the unpowered cars. Obviously some of those functions are already used for lights, and it would make sense to try and align the few functions that have managed to become standardized in America with their Japanese equivalent. It would also be nice to get more of the functions standardized from the start. Keep in mind that you have EMU/DMUs, electric, diesel and steam locomotive pulled trains to map, and it would be nice if they where more or less the same. Also some DCC systems/throttles can only use F0-F12, and not all the way to F28.

 

I would ensure the lower bound functions cover lighting (master on/off, manual control of front and rear headlights for consists, control of room lights) and then reserve the rest of the F0-13 range for generic sounds/functions (doors, whistles, etc). I would then put the line specific sounds, the onboard station announcements, at F14-F28. This gives up to 15 distinct station announcements directly, or more if toggling is used (i.e. F26, F27 and F28 used to toggle between 3 different sets of 12 stations, arranged in order). Switcher locomotives might use the higher functions as shortcuts for prototypical signal lighting (where they turn on/off left or right backup lights to signal what the switcher is going to do).

[Martijn Meerts]

A major problem with sound in longer trains, is when the train (the prototype anyway) has distributed power, like a small motor in each car. In that case you'd need multiple sound decoders (1 for every 3 or 4 cars or so) in order to get it to sound reasonable. With such small speakers it's very obvious which car has the sound decoder fitted.

 

Of course, adding a sound decoder would make the train twice as expensive as well (ESU Loksound Micro for example is expensive, 120 euro, or 160 USD), not to mention that many people wouldn't be able to run it, unless they add a decoder that can handle analog as well. And of course, there's the people who don't want sound, so you'd have to build 2 versions, which increases the cost even for the non-sound model.

 

 

Good sound adds a lot to a train, but good sound requires space for a decent speaker, something which is generally lacking in N-scale. Also, you need to know sound to be able to find the right spot for the speaker, you can't just place it anywhere there's space. Trains with good sound are usually designed with sound in mind.

[David]

Of course, adding a sound decoder would make the train twice as expensive as well (ESU Loksound Micro for example is expensive, 120 euro, or 160 USD), not to mention that many people wouldn't be able to run it, unless they add a decoder that can handle analog as well. And of course, there's the people who don't want sound, so you'd have to build 2 versions, which increases the cost even for the non-sound model.

 

That's inflated Euro costs of course - in the US it's $50-$100 for sound. Of course your point that it adds costs for everyone is good. Give that sound really only needs the two pickups (no extra wiring), could Kato provide a standard "slot" in one or more cars of each set, similar to how they do with the interior lighting system? Then you have the choice of no sound, single car sound, or multiple car sound (just like you have the choice of no lights, lights and DCC controlled lights). I think making a single standard design (for EMU/DMU) would help as well.

[KenS]

I think that's an interesting idea, but given the size of a sound decoder they'd need a large slot just for the decoder, and some place to mount the speaker with a sealed box behind it and the front exposed to the outside (directly or through a grill).  I've looked at mounting something like an ESU micro in an EMU, and a typical speaker would take up most of the space below the body between the trucks once you allow for mounting and there isn't much room for a sound box.

 

There's about 65mm between the trucks on a typical commuter EMU.  The ESU LokSound micro is 28mm long (Tsunami is 25mm but they don't appear to have any electric sounds) and typical oval speakers are around 25mm. That doesn't leave much room for mounting, although it does seem like it might be possible with a custom design. I'm still thinking about mounting a standard one myself with some "similar" electric motor sound, but I'd probably have to fit the decoder inside the car body.

 

Most N-scale locos with built-in sound use small (13mm) circular speakers mounted in the fuel tank. That would be easier to fit than the big oval ones, but I'd worry about the sound quality. The small speaker coupled with the small soundbox possible in a typicial "under the motor" mounting point may be a big part of the reported poor sound in N-scale. With EMUs you don't need to worry about the motor, but you do have to decide if you want to sacrifice interior detail/lighting to get sound.

 

BTW, a micro Tsunami is around US$110 from MB Klein, and I've seen the ESU Micro for US$130-140 from U.S. dealers, so that's the likely cost for high-quality sound here. Digitrax could do something at a lower price point (their plug-in N-scale sound decoders are about $55), but they don't seem to have as good a reputation for sound decoders, although I've never (yet) used one.

 

I'd love to see Kato do a custom sound decoder and modify their "DCC Friendly" trains to support it. But I'm not going to hold my breath.  Unless they can sell sound to the Japanese market more effectively than they seem to have managed to sell DCC itself they're not likely to have the volume to justify a custom decoder and re-tooling for future car designs.

[Nozomi]

When I pre-ordered the Kato E5 I had two concerns:

 

1. Will they use the same flimsy coupling system as with the N700?

2. Will they use the same style of front 'nose-doors' as with the E4 (they easily fall off and aren't that easily re-applied)?

 

Kato released CAD-Pics of their E5 model today: http://www.katomodels.com/n/e5kei/

 

It looks like my concerns were unfounded. Now I await the release of the E5 even more eagerly!

[clem24]

Kato released CAD-Pics of their E5 model today: http://www.katomodels.com/n/e5kei/

 

Interesting. So looks like it gains the coupling system from the E3, which IMHO looks... strange around curves, and they've ditched the prettier and complicated retractable nose cone in favour of a simple, removable one like Tomix..?

 

Does goes to show that I think Tomix might have had it right all along with their simple couplers, now adapted for full train pick up. That design essentially has not changed (except for their brief experience with the 700 and 800 series "T" couplers) whereas Kato has now had 4 different coupling systems.

[KenS]

Ick.  I have an E3, and it's much harder to get it to couple reliably than my 500 Series or commuter EMUs.  That does look like the E3 system, and that's not good news.

[cteno4]

While i find the kato diaprhagm couplers a bit more realistic they have always presented a problem running. while the 500 works reasonably well, i found the E4 and n700 just horrible to make run well on kato double viaduct track.

 

I too will be waiting for the Tomix version with hopes for the all wheel pickup and standard nose connectors with my other tomix trains. it was total night and day between the tomix and kato n700 trains. the tomix n700 is probably the best running train i have ever had (full 16 car) and the kato the worst! usually i personally find only minor differences between the two brands (500s for interest are pretty identical in running except diaphragm looks and slight color difference) but here it was huge!

 

i was jealous of the new kato nose doors when they came out as i had moved to tomix to get nose couplers on those trains, but now that i hear they can fall apart easily im not so jealous! just have to keep track of those nose caps when you take them off, so easy to go poof!

 

cheers

 

jeff

[CaptOblivious]

The E4 nose doors do fall apart easily. I notice that they are using a new kind of nose door on the E5, though, interesting.

 

I wish they had stuck with the diaphragm coupler used on the E4 model: It is very robust, yet easy to couple.

[Darklighter]

New pics: http://www.katomodels.com/n/e5kei/

 

Looks fantastic, can't wait for the release!

[Martijn Meerts]

Looking good. I quite like the paint, bit of a pearlescent effect in there it seems.

[Nozomi]

Wow! This must be the coolest model ever!

 

Even better: I'm going to Japan in April and will ride the real thing!

[clem24]

Wow! This must be the coolest model ever!

 

Even better: I'm going to Japan in April and will ride the real thing!

 

Can you actually pick which train type you can ride on? I assume you'd have to wait. I know I was able to pick seats (i.e. the 2 side instead of the 3 side) but I didn't really think to ask what particular train would be running...

[Nozomi]

Wow! This must be the coolest model ever!

 

Even better: I'm going to Japan in April and will ride the real thing!

 

Can you actually pick which train type you can ride on? I assume you'd have to wait. I know I was able to pick seats (i.e. the 2 side instead of the 3 side) but I didn't really think to ask what particular train would be running...

 

The service name 'Hayabusa' is exclusive for E5 trains (to my knowledge). Also, the new premium cabin 'GranClass' is only available on E5 rolling stock. So there should not be any problems in booking the right rolling stock.

 

Last year, I spent 3 weeks in Japan and only thing I had to do was going train shopping and train riding. From that experience I know that Midori-no-madoguchi-staff is very knowledgeable about the types of train.

 

The Japanese language pocket time table of Tokaido/Sanyo shinkansen, shows which services use to most modern stock (N700 series). When I was in Japan last year there was only one Nozomi run from Tokyo to Hakata per day by 500series shinkansen. This was also marked in the pocket guide.

[Martijn Meerts]

I believe there's been a Hayabusa service before, but that was an express train. I seem to remember Tomix having this special version of that train with all cars and 4 different loco's that have been used for the train. Seems right now the E5 is the only train running under the Hayabusa name though.

[clem24]

I believe there's been a Hayabusa service before, but that was an express train. I seem to remember Tomix having this special version of that train with all cars and 4 different loco's that have been used for the train. Seems right now the E5 is the only train running under the Hayabusa name though.

 

 

LOL dude yeah it used 14 series sleeper trains but that's not relevant here. I guess you'd have to go to Shin-Aomori otherwise you'd be placed on a different train. Although I suppose you could always request a specific service. What I was really referring to is getting to choose the type of train you ride on. For say the Tokaido Shinkansen, you never know what it will be until you get to the platform. But with this Hayabusa service, I guess Nozomi is right.. Only the E5 runs this service. Or maybe they'll be sneaky and substitute a different train like they sometimes did on the Asama service during peak travel times.