Tomy targets Big Holiday Sales in US. I wonder if Tomix to follow?

[gmat]

Article from Japan Times;

 

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nb20101202a2.html

 

Best wishes,

Grant

[bikkuri bahn]

Telling excerpt:

 

Satoshi Shimizu, a developer at Tomy, acknowledged that toy trains had long been a hard-sell for American children. They've been popular in Japan because of the high-profile bullet trains and ubiquitous commuter trains.

 

It's tough to grow interest in this segment when you think your average American child is growing up in a cookie cutter sunbelt city suburb dominated by the auto, where trains may not even be present, and industry takes the form of endless blocks of prefab boxy buildings in "business parks" served by trucks. Personally, growing up in suburban California in the 70's and 80's, it was dismal regarding railways, you rarely saw any, much less ride any.  I think I was the only kid that "liked trains" in my grade (perhaps in the whole school).  In fact my best friend (different school), who was about 4 years older than me, also liked trains, mainly because he spent his early childhood in Ohio, which had a more dense railroad presence due to its older, rustbelt industry.  Of course I liked trains because I had the benefit of almost yearly trips to Japan- to me ordinary trains were 113 series units running on 15-20 minute headways on the Yokosuka Line, and ne plus ultra of urban transport were Tokyu's stainless steel 8000 series- so smooth and efficient- once it gets in the blood, it never leaves....

[bill937ca]

Tomy has a fair presence in Canada, but I have never seen any sign of Tomix coming this way.  In a marketing sense, Tomix modelers would probably be considered early adapters.  Somehow I just can't see Japanese prototype trains being accepted by most North American modelers.  I don't think they'd like the profile of the track or the various types of Japanese trains.  But nevertheless, Tomy toys will be still be in vending machines at Giant Tiger and in service centers along the 401.

 

Another note, Tomy trains would indicate things like the Plastic Rail (Plarail) trains instead of Tomix.

[bikkuri bahn]

Good points Bill.

Somehow I just can't see Japanese prototype trains being accepted by most North American modelers.

I would think that Tomy would at least produce some US outline models, like an Acela trainset, a light rail vehicle, or some EMD or GE diesel loco. 

As for Japanese prototypes, I think the children would be more open minded to them, especially if they looked cool, it's the purchasing adults that would likely balk- "those look too furrin, they ain't real trains!!"

[cteno4]

AFAIK tomix has never distributed outside japan directly with no official overseas distributors. everything seems to come form japanese distributors to an importer. I think these trains are going to be a hard sell as they are not really 'toys' and you get into the idea of having to model japan to get much sales. as much interest as we get in the jrm layout there are few that seem to end up wanting to really do japanese train modeling...

 

pity as the tomytec line of buildings, scenery elements and vehicles make modeling so easy and relatively cheap for the beginner to jump in compared to modeling us trains! just probably not a big enough market in model trains to warrant putting effort into it.

 

plarail would be the place where they could expand the japanese offerings and the kids would probably be into it. this could be a good starting point to get the future modeling interest higher! things seem to peter out with trains in NA with kids with thomas usually.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[CaptOblivious]

In another thread here, I posted where Toys R Us had advertised quite a large selection of Pla-Rail toys for the Christmas season. Two years ago, I saw a large Pla-Rail set for sale at a Toys R Us that included models of an E3 and a generic EMD streamliner-era diesel.

[KenS]

I actually had someone with kids in the 4-7 bracket Tomy's targeting ask me about model trains as a Christmas present a few months ago.  His reason for interest was that the kids were outgrowing Thomas, but still had an interest in trains. Most of the kids that age I know are also Thomas fans (although I may have had something to do with that  ).  If Pla-rail in Toys R Us can tap into that market of kids who grew up with Thomas, then perhaps we might see Tomix four or five years from now, as those kids get old enough to want real model trains.

[CaptOblivious]

Ken: FWIW, I'm pretty sure the new wave of imports was all remarked HyperGaurdian stuff, little dfferent than Thomas in its range of appeal...

[Martijn Meerts]

AFAIK tomix has never distributed outside japan directly with no official overseas distributors. everything seems to come form japanese distributors to an importer. I think these trains are going to be a hard sell as they are not really 'toys' and you get into the idea of having to model japan to get much sales. as much interest as we get in the jrm layout there are few that seem to end up wanting to really do japanese train modeling...

 

pity as the tomytec line of buildings, scenery elements and vehicles make modeling so easy and relatively cheap for the beginner to jump in compared to modeling us trains! just probably not a big enough market in model trains to warrant putting effort into it.

 

plarail would be the place where they could expand the japanese offerings and the kids would probably be into it. this could be a good starting point to get the future modeling interest higher! things seem to peter out with trains in NA with kids with thomas usually.

 

cheers

 

jeff

 

I think a reason why people end up not "wanting" to do Japanese train modeling, is that they don't really have an easy source to get the stuff. Most people wouldn't want to order directly from Japan, and outside of Japan the stuff is just either hard to find, or overly expensive.

 

I wonder what would happen if you had a couple of sets up for sale at a show where the JRM layout is on display. Maybe a couple of starter sets and/or some of the more appealing trains like the 500 series or some of the painted trains.

[Nozomi4ever]

Here 's Tomy 's latest pla-rail products...

http://www.takaratomy.co.jp/products/plarail/tettei/set/10_11_pte/index.htm

 

Why can't our model railway feature something like this?? With moving escalator..

[cteno4]

 

I think a reason why people end up not "wanting" to do Japanese train modeling, is that they don't really have an easy source to get the stuff. Most people wouldn't want to order directly from Japan, and outside of Japan the stuff is just either hard to find, or overly expensive.

 

I wonder what would happen if you had a couple of sets up for sale at a show where the JRM layout is on display. Maybe a couple of starter sets and/or some of the more appealing trains like the 500 series or some of the painted trains.

 

Martijn,

 

we actually do have quite a bit of japanese trains for sale at the shows with the jrm layouts. the local train show lets us have a couple of tables for the members to sell off extra stuff. we also usually have a smattering of tomytec vehicles (extras) for sale as well. several of the usual vendors at the shows have lots of unitrak, kato, tomix and green max buildings. the reception over all is luke warm. While we dont have starter kits, but i really doubt that we would sell much of them at the shows at all from our experience. even though many folks are really excited by the japanese trains and it stands out as we are really different, we find very few converts. the cost of starter sets (us or japanese) is a little hurdle as well as that can be $100-200, so not a cheap toy.

 

I dont think this is totally due to the fact you have to get a lot of the stuff overseas. most younger folks have grown up shopping on line and i doubt are very scared of ordering from japan, its usually older folks that have a bit of fear of the internet and the world outside the boarders that seem to not want to order from overseas from all the folks i talk to (and we get a lot at the shows and emailing us).

 

I think its part that there is not a lot of train culture in the us and what there is gets sucked into the us stuff right away. NASCAR is very ubiquitous, but slot cars are not really back in big as well though...

 

i also will get on the soap box that its our lack of design in our country that i think is at the root of this. if you look at our toy market its gotten very fast use sorts of stuff. very little is made anymore to last and for kids to mature with some. moving from toy trains to model trains takes a big step in starting to think in a longer picture, get creative, and do some -- dare i say it -- design! its some thing to be creative with and it does not happen over night, you have to plan, then work, fiddle, rip up, do over, fiddle more, etc. thats just not part of our culture much anymore, especially for kids, so can understand why model trains are on a decline in NA. Practically none of the kids i know in the last decade have done any real lasting hobbies, except maybe legos, but even that seems to have a much shorter window of play than it did in the past. Also the parents dont have hobbies usually so its hard for the kid to learn that trait or get some help, training, and encouragement.

 

The only lasting things are computers and video games, but both of those really dont push much creativity and design sense in their usual use. Some will say computers allow kids to be creative, but i taught a multimedia lab for high school kids and it took a whole year to get most of the kids to get into the mode to be really creative with the computer. once they did they loved it and got into it, but it took a lot of prying them into it with training and assignments (it was an integrated oceanography curriculum so we were trying to get them to integrate studies in their multimedia work) to get them there. w/o it they would just be happy surfing and facebooking.

 

I think the real draw to japanese modeling is the fact that its really creative in what you can do and model. just about anything goes as the trains are everywhere and in all sorts of circumstances. with NA trains its pretty limited and getting creative gets into little details and you find sort of the same scene done again and again (as the prototypes are pretty standardized). folks get into trying to model things very prototypically then with layouts, but then again there is a limited number of good venues there as well. with japanese modeling you can really go wild and have a lot of fun with design. you almost have to have a love of design to get into them as the trains on the first pass are a big design draw (probably the first thing that draws most folks into it), but the scenery and track plans can be pretty wide open! if you are into prototypical modeling there are also so many interesting runs that can be done as well.

 

i see model trains as a great lesson for kids to think ahead into the future and realize the complexity of the real world (stuff aint simple solutions out there, pull that thread and you dont always know what it may be attached to) and how to plan properly and solve problems. also wonderful way for them to develop some basic electrical, carpentry, craft, and mechanical skills. also wonderful design aspects all the way through along with artistic expression. teaches patience, chipping away slowly at a large project but having lots of small aha moments and gratifications along the way. life rarely brings you big, fast ahas/gratifications, they are usually a slow progression of little ones that if planned out right can then lead to culmination in big ones, but with out some forethought that can only occur by dumb luck.

 

ok stepping off the soap box!

 

cheers

 

jeff

[cteno4]

Here 's Tomy 's latest pla-rail products...

http://www.takaratomy.co.jp/products/plarail/tettei/set/10_11_pte/index.htm

 

Why can't our model railway feature something like this?? With moving escalator..

 

Nozomi,

 

i have often noodled on an N scale escalator that would move and have people on it. figured just a flat belt on rollers with a slow turing motor on one end would do it. glue the people at and angle to the rubber band. only problem is you need to obscure the top and bottom where the people would popup and disappear, but i think this could be done with some visual obstructions in the scene so you only was the middle of the escalator with the people gliding down!

 

biggest headache would be figuring out a good material to use for the belt that would age well.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[Martijn Meerts]

 

I think a reason why people end up not "wanting" to do Japanese train modeling, is that they don't really have an easy source to get the stuff. Most people wouldn't want to order directly from Japan, and outside of Japan the stuff is just either hard to find, or overly expensive.

 

I wonder what would happen if you had a couple of sets up for sale at a show where the JRM layout is on display. Maybe a couple of starter sets and/or some of the more appealing trains like the 500 series or some of the painted trains.

 

Martijn,

 

we actually do have quite a bit of japanese trains for sale at the shows with the jrm layouts. the local train show lets us have a couple of tables for the members to sell off extra stuff. we also usually have a smattering of tomytec vehicles (extras) for sale as well. several of the usual vendors at the shows have lots of unitrak, kato, tomix and green max buildings. the reception over all is luke warm. While we dont have starter kits, but i really doubt that we would sell much of them at the shows at all from our experience. even though many folks are really excited by the japanese trains and it stands out as we are really different, we find very few converts. the cost of starter sets (us or japanese) is a little hurdle as well as that can be $100-200, so not a cheap toy.

 

I dont think this is totally due to the fact you have to get a lot of the stuff overseas. most younger folks have grown up shopping on line and i doubt are very scared of ordering from japan, its usually older folks that have a bit of fear of the internet and the world outside the boarders that seem to not want to order from overseas from all the folks i talk to (and we get a lot at the shows and emailing us).

 

I think its part that there is not a lot of train culture in the us and what there is gets sucked into the us stuff right away. NASCAR is very ubiquitous, but slot cars are not really back in big as well though...

 

i also will get on the soap box that its our lack of design in our country that i think is at the root of this. if you look at our toy market its gotten very fast use sorts of stuff. very little is made anymore to last and for kids to mature with some. moving from toy trains to model trains takes a big step in starting to think in a longer picture, get creative, and do some -- dare i say it -- design! its some thing to be creative with and it does not happen over night, you have to plan, then work, fiddle, rip up, do over, fiddle more, etc. thats just not part of our culture much anymore, especially for kids, so can understand why model trains are on a decline in NA. Practically none of the kids i know in the last decade have done any real lasting hobbies, except maybe legos, but even that seems to have a much shorter window of play than it did in the past. Also the parents dont have hobbies usually so its hard for the kid to learn that trait or get some help, training, and encouragement.

 

The only lasting things are computers and video games, but both of those really dont push much creativity and design sense in their usual use. Some will say computers allow kids to be creative, but i taught a multimedia lab for high school kids and it took a whole year to get most of the kids to get into the mode to be really creative with the computer. once they did they loved it and got into it, but it took a lot of prying them into it with training and assignments (it was an integrated oceanography curriculum so we were trying to get them to integrate studies in their multimedia work) to get them there. w/o it they would just be happy surfing and facebooking.

 

I think the real draw to japanese modeling is the fact that its really creative in what you can do and model. just about anything goes as the trains are everywhere and in all sorts of circumstances. with NA trains its pretty limited and getting creative gets into little details and you find sort of the same scene done again and again (as the prototypes are pretty standardized). folks get into trying to model things very prototypically then with layouts, but then again there is a limited number of good venues there as well. with japanese modeling you can really go wild and have a lot of fun with design. you almost have to have a love of design to get into them as the trains on the first pass are a big design draw (probably the first thing that draws most folks into it), but the scenery and track plans can be pretty wide open! if you are into prototypical modeling there are also so many interesting runs that can be done as well.

 

i see model trains as a great lesson for kids to think ahead into the future and realize the complexity of the real world (stuff aint simple solutions out there, pull that thread and you dont always know what it may be attached to) and how to plan properly and solve problems. also wonderful way for them to develop some basic electrical, carpentry, craft, and mechanical skills. also wonderful design aspects all the way through along with artistic expression. teaches patience, chipping away slowly at a large project but having lots of small aha moments and gratifications along the way. life rarely brings you big, fast ahas/gratifications, they are usually a slow progression of little ones that if planned out right can then lead to culmination in big ones, but with out some forethought that can only occur by dumb luck.

 

ok stepping off the soap box!

 

cheers

 

jeff

 

Ah, didn't know you also sold some stuff during shows. It's a shame really that people don't buy it even when it's easily available. And while a start site might be pricy, it's nothing compared to many other brands of starter sets (my 2 Marklin starter sets were well over 1000 USD, although they did include 2 digital locomotive, 3 passenger cars, 4 freight cars and a basic digital system.)

 

You have a point with youngsters and hobbies though. I've noticed it with my brother's kids as well, they have a new hobby almost weekly. They used to be really interested in trains actually, but now that they're a bit older, trains aren't cool anymore, so they pick up whatever's the new hotness at the moment. I think it's also partially to be blamed on the over-protectiveness of parents though. When I was a kid we used to built tree huts and dig underground bunkers and the like. I was also already using drills, jigsaw and other power tools when I was like 10. These days, most kids aren't allowed to touch anything that has a 0.000001% chance of harming them..

 

What scared me though, was back in Norway, the guy who lived downstairs asked me if I know anything about electricity. Turned out he'd bought a new ceiling lamp, and he didn't know how to install it.... Of course, he did know all the minute details of installing and maintaining linux servers :)

 

 

Man, I must be getting old when I'm starting to think back of "the good old days" =)

[cteno4]

Martijn,

 

yes we are sounding like old curmudgeons! i do fear that spending any solid amount of time on anything is going out the window. in the information age everything is bam-done world these days. model trains certainly are not that mentality! i think a lot of the ADD and even autism diagnosis these days are just from the speed of the culture. i can see kids that have a hiccup in their development for some reason (happens to most at one point or another and they get thru it) and in todays rush rush society you can get very off track with a hiccup, no time/chance to get reoriented and back on track! you become out of phase and detached from the rest of your peers both mentally and sociologically also the speed and brevity of all the communications and even teaching you can see how it would turn out ADD like behavior. I have a few special needs teacher friends who have been seeing this in their classrooms. a flood of new kids labeled with all sorts of problems that are basically ok, but have just gotten really bad habits or just need help getting back on the tracks and going again.

 

Integrated teaching is also not done much these days and this is probably the most effective way for kids to learn and best develop. model trains are basically integrated learning by its nature. the planning and drawn out nature allows for time off to process subconsciously and come back to things later to make more distant connections come clear. lots of different skills are required to be sequenced together to make things happen. the current societal environment and teaching methods focus on fast returns on little bits of disconnected information -- add directed at the very slow serial conscious mind. again we arent training our kids (or ourselves) to have any of the mind to think about working on a hobby like model trains.

 

i realize this discussion has gone far afield here, but i think its a big part of why model trains (and especially japanese trains) are not a larger/longer part of kids (and even adults) experience these days.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[bikkuri bahn]

Interesting discussion about children and their hobby choices nowadays.  Back in the day, when I was receiving an allowance (some thing like $5 a week), you could go to the little local drugstore (not a chain store) and you could find a selection of plastic model kits, as well as paint (testors in those little bottles with the white caps).  A couple of weeks of savings, and you could get a weekend project lined up.  Monogram had better quality than Revell, and if you saved for a month or two, you could go first class and buy Tamiya (that would be at the toy store or hobby shop).  When I go back to the states now, it seems most of the smaller drugstores no longer carry model kits (the toy sections carry alot of made in China plastic junk toys), and even the larger chains like Walgreens, etc. have little or no selection.  Tastes and interests change I suppose. 

 

BTW, the situation in Japan, is similar (dwindling numbers of general outlet and mom and pop stores selling kits), though the slack is being taken somewhat by the electronics retailers (Yodobashi/Bic, etc.).  Plus model making is still somewhat popular among younger folk (tho less so than in the past) thanks to the popularity of Gundam models (Ganpura).

[cteno4]

We just did the B&O railroad museum show this weekend in Baltimore with the JRM layout and lots of kids (mainly little kids and parents and grandparents). the museum has a couple of layouts in the roundhouse a week for december and early jan.

 

i got a chance to chat with some of parents when they would comment on doing trains with their kids and tried to see what they felt about toys, hobbies, and their kids development. many commented on that their kids did not hold on any one thing for very long other than some of the cultural media stuff, but those were really discrete age periods. they commented on spending a lot of their time with the kids getting to and from stuff and not as much as they would like with more direct contact. used that as an opening for them to plug trying to 'play trains' with their kids and maybe think about trying some model railroading. when i listed the benefits (skill building, planning. life lessons, self motivation, self empowerment, self esteem, time with kids, etc) the light bulbs did seem to go off in their heads that this one thing could have multiple benefits.

 

so something to think about when talking to parents!

 

cheers

 

jeff