Kato 800 Tsubame and Series 100 Couplers

[Spaceman Spiff]

I finally was able to try out my new Japanese fleet last night at my club's layout. All three of my newly aquired trains ran well (Tomix 0 series, Kato 800 and 100 series). The 800 didn't like going high speed on the layout though. It rides really low and it didn't like some of the turn outs as it would derail. On slow speed it was fine.

 

My question is what is there a trick to couple and uncouple the Kato couplers? It took awhile for me to get Kato's coupled up. 

 

I can't wait to get them DCC equipped. Standby for further dumb DCC install questions. 

 

Spiff

[Bernard]

Is it happening on the curves that it's derailing? The Tomix couplers on the 800 have more give on a tighter radius, whereas the Kato couplers as fairly ridged by comparison.

[David]

Coupling and uncoupling the 800 Series Kato couplers should be easy - push them together to coupler, lift one of the cars straight off the track to uncouple.

 

As Bernard said the couplers do not like tight radius curves. They are body mounted, so when you go into a curve and the ends of the body overhang, the coupler can only extend so far to bridge the gap created between them. When the gap is larger then the coupler will telescope, the car body gets pulled into the curve.

 

The minimum radius specified is 315mm (12"). On 11" curves the car bodies start getting pulled into the curve, so they look like they are tilting. If you enter a smaller curve, or perhaps just go around an 11" curve too fast, the trucks themselves will be pulled off the outside track, leading to derailment.

[KenS]

I don't have the 800, but Kato couplers usually work very easily (I've had them go together when two cars rolled into each other at low speed), but every once in a while I've had them act up because the alignment wasn't quite right, and they'd bounce off instead of coupling, repeatedly. Usually if you back the cars off and align them by eye they'll work properly.

 

When uncoupling, lift the cars and tilt where they join up relative to the body (i.e., turn right hand to the right, and left hand to the left, gently) and they should separate with at most a small tug.  Don't pull them straight apart, as that could damage them.

[David]

When uncoupling, lift the cars and tilt where they join up relative to the body (i.e., turn right hand to the right, and left hand to the left, gently) and they should separate with at most a small tug.  Don't pull them straight apart, as that could damage them.

 

Those are different couplers then the 800 Series. The couplers you are talking about are Kato's telescoping shafenberg body mounted couplers. The 800 Series, and a few other Kato Shinkansen use a coupler built into the diaphragm between cars. The diaphragm couplers on the 800 series do not need any physical force to seperate (if you are using force, you are doing it wrong). It is simply a matter of lifting one car about 1/8" higher then the other, at which point they will no longer be joined.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Thanks for replies guys.  I played with the cars today. It does appear I have to left one car slightly and then dip it into the other coupler to join them up. A little different than than Kato TGV set up and micro trains :)

 

In regards to the derailing I think it is because the club layout isn't perfectly level at certain places. This is due because the lay out is portable to take to shows so I guess I will need to fine tune the tables. I also believe some of the turn outs stick up abit and the 800 sits pretty low so it snags it every so often at high speed.

 

 

Spiff

[David]

Thanks for replies guys.  I played with the cars today. It does appear I have to left one car slightly and then dip it into the other coupler to join them up. A little different than than Kato TGV set up and micro trains :)

 

In regards to the derailing I think it is because the club layout isn't perfectly level at certain places. This is due because the lay out is portable to take to shows so I guess I will need to fine tune the tables. I also believe some of the turn outs stick up abit and the 800 sits pretty low so it snags it every so often at high speed.

 

 

Spiff

 

Sharp grade changes are another thing that can affect this specific type of coupler - since the uncoupling action is done by sliding the couplers vertically (so that one half of the coupler is now above the other half, breaking the connection). My 800 sometimes derails when the upward grade near my plate track bridge levels out.

[Bernard]

What type of track does the club use? If it's flex track, sometimes soldering the track on the radius can cause a bump in the track where two pieces are joined.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Hi Bernard,  the club uses flex trax and some 50 percent of the rail joiner are soldered on which may be the issue.  I must say the 800 looks good on the layout. I will have to take pics 

 

Spiff

[Spaceman Spiff]

Update:  The 800 couples up really easy and quickly. The 100 series, even though they are the same couplers give me more grief. The take alot longer to couple up and are alot more finicky. It seems like if they are not coupled exactly perfect, they put extra tension between the cars. This extra tension then raisers the cars slightly which cause them to derail. I seems odd same couplers, different trains cause me such grief :)

 

Spiff

[Spaceman Spiff]

A quick update, the 100 is coupling up better now. Maybe the couplers needed to be worked in abit and the operator has gained more experience. lol

 

Spiff

[keitaro]

My tomix 800 flys around 280mm curves.

 

I have noticed though that if you have a flat straight and then a 280 or even larger bend start an incline near the connection with straight and bend the train can derail at high speeds.

 

I worked out that this Is due to the length of the cars and how tight they are together.

 

Basicly if 1 car is higher than the other it will pull the car behind on the flat up 1mm or so loosing traction, if it's going fast it jumps of the track.

 

That's what I noticed anyway. Easy fix have a part of the straight before then bend have a bit more of an incline on my layout I raised by only 1mm and now I can run max speed and no derails.

[Bernard]

My tomix 800 flys around 280mm curves.

 

I have noticed though that if you have a flat straight and then a 280 or even larger bend start an incline near the connection with straight and bend the train can derail at high speeds.

 

I worked out that this Is due to the length of the cars and how tight they are together.

 

Basicly if 1 car is higher than the other it will pull the car behind on the flat up 1mm or so loosing traction, if it's going fast it jumps of the track.

 

That's what I noticed anyway. Easy fix have a part of the straight before then bend have a bit more of an incline on my layout I raised by only 1mm and now I can run max speed and no derails.

 

Yes, the Shinkansen cars are longer than over passenger trains and therefore need a wider radius in the curves. At the point where the cars couple together, on a tight radius they will buckle.

[keitaro]

I just read my post and it's bad haha. if i still have a picture I will post it.

 

1 other train this happens on that I know of is the kiha 110 2 car set. the detail of the door connections makes the cars very close so if the car in front goes on an incline they rub and cause derails.

 

I noticed this issue where I had a 140mm s connecting to a 317mm 45 curve and the incline started right at the connection between the 2 tracks. It's much worse when heading down than up as well