Prototypical length for Shinkansen Series 100

[Spaceman Spiff]

Hi, can someone tell me what the prototypical length of 100 Series Shinkansen?

 

 

Spiff

[David]

Operated by who, on which service, what years?

 

Historically most where 16 car sets, however the configuration of cars varied (green cars, bi-level cars, and even a restaurant car). There was also a 12 car configuration (I think this was taking a 16 car and removing all the bi-level cars?).

 

Today there are 2 formations run - a 4 car and a 6 car (I think the 6 car formation is on the way out though), all using single level cars taken from the 16 car sets (apart from livery and seating does anyone know of any technical modifications done?). The 4 car sets are all in the "fresh green" livery, while the 6 car sets are a mix between the green and sets painted in the blue livery of the old 16 car sets.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Thanks for the reply.

 

I bought the Kato 10-354 JR Shinkansen Bullet Train Series 100 6 car set and was debating on whether or not to get the the 10-355 6 car add on set.

 

Spiff

[David]

Wikipedia says the 6 car sets are due to be retired at the end of 2012, and that 12 car sets where only in use for about 5 months in 1986 - they where the first 4 production sets built, and did not immediately have the bi-level cars. By October the bi-level cars where ready and all 4 sets where permanently upgraded to 16 car sets.

[Bernard]

Spiff - the other question to take into consideration is the size of your layout, if you have the room it will look great. For me it wouldn't fit into my yard, my longest train is the 7 car 700 series.

[KenS]

Storage is a good point, although you can always take them off the layout when not in use (it's what I do, as I have no yard yet).

 

However, the other thing to think about is how they fit into the scenery.  That's less of an issue on a floor or "kitchen table" layout than it is on one where more of the detail is explicit, rather than imagined. But a train that's still in one station as it's entering the next doesn't look right.

 

With explicit scenery, a layout can be thought of as a sequence of "scenes" that blend into each other. And with that, there's more room for conflict between what the scenery is supposed to suggest, and what the eye sees when watching a train.

 

A train can extend through a scene, but usually some kind of view break between scenes would be needed to make it less obvious that the train is "over there" and "over here".  A view break is not necessarily a total block like a tunnel; it just needs to define a visual edge somehow, to imply that you don't need to look beyond it. Just running behind some trees or a couple of buildings would do. But even then, if a scene represents an area long enough for a train to be wholly visible, one that never is will look "wrong" even with view breaks.

 

Open space (like agricultural fields) can also be used to separate scenes, but without some kind of break it needs to be significantly longer, to give a sense of open space. Most peope seem to use hills, buildings and tunnels.

 

My layout is really sized for 8-10 car trains in terms of length (about six feet), as anything longer tends to extend out both sides of a "scene" and into both view break areas simultaneosly (my scenes are a bit more than 8' really, but in practice the ends are transitional areas that serve as view breaks without being solid view blocks). I do have one station with a set of platforms sized for a 16-car Shinkansen, but it was a late addition and the rest wasn't really designed for that length.

 

And what I've noticed is that in other scenes, the long trains look subtly "wrong" if I look at the whole scene because they don't fit "into" the scene, and thus they draw the eye out of it and break the illusion.  As long as I focus on one point, they look great rolling through the scene for an extended period, and I don't regret buying them at all.  My 10+5 commuter trains are short enough that they mostly "fit", but my 16-car Series 500 and M250 trains are long enough that they really break the illusion.

 

This is all about what you expect to see.  If you're used to long freights, then a freight that spans a scene doesn't really look wrong, unless it draws your eye into the adjacent scene. But passenger trains (even big ones) tend to be short enough that you can see all of them in open areas, so when you can't it doesn't quite look right.

 

You may see things differently from me. But I was quite surprised at how wrong the Series 500 looked the first time I ran it with real scenery. I suspect I'm going to tend to run even my 10+5 commuter trains as 10-car trains until I have room to expand the layout, and put the stations further apart. I think I need about 12' per "scene" to make my long trains look like they're "in" the scenery, although redeigning to make the areas less open might also work (if the train's mostly behind buildings, you don't expect to see all of it anyway).

[Spaceman Spiff]

Thanks for the replies.

 

Impressive yard you have going there Bernard.  KenS you bring up a good point. I haven't really thought of how a train looks against scenery or on a layout. It's kinda funny that I own alot of domestic rolling stock, a French TGV  and now some Japanese Shinkansen units but don't have layout  : I am a member of Nscale train club which allows me to run trains. I may just pass on the extra cars and use the cash to buy decoders as I need to buy three motor decoders and 6 cab decoders. Sighhhhh.

 

Spiff

 

P.S.  Once I do get my layout going it will an L shape 16 feet X 8 feet. Tables done just need a track plan and time 

[spacecadet]

Just be glad Kato didn't do with the 10-354 set what they sometimes do and give you one bi-level car.  To me, it looks totally wrong to run a train with only one bi-level car, and while they probably exist somewhere, I've never personally seen a Japanese train with only one bi-level car.  But some of Kato's sets these days come with just one bi-level car, and you have to buy the add-on to get the second one.

 

The 10-354 six car set probably looks ok running as it is, although I don't think there was ever a six car prototypical set with any bi-level cars at all.  But at least it probably suggests the right look of the longer sets to have the two bi-level cars in there.

 

btw I love the 100 series because of those bi-level cars, though I *hated* them the first time I saw them in real life.  But now I like the variety in the consist.

[Bernard]

Spiff - Being part of a club and planning a 16x8 layout is plenty big enough to run a 16 car Shinkansen. Do any of the club members also run Japanese trains?

 

When I was mentioning the size I wasn't sure the dimensions of your layout.

Ken brings up a good point about scenery, I actually use it to hide the train temp. from view, it later appears from "out of nowhere" to the surprise of someone looking at the layout.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Bernard, our club is in a shopping mall which is great for public viewing but unfortunately we have a small location compared to previous locations. The current mall layout is probably 40% of our total layout. It's great when you go to a show as we bring out most of the layout. Kinda nice seeing the TGV ripping around full speed. Most of our members have run North American stock. I run 12 car CP passenger cars on the reduced layout with no issues. Myself and another member run TGV's but as far I know I will be the only running Japanese Shinkansens   

 

Attached is a pic from one of the shows. It's no the best pic but gives an indication of the size of the layout.

 

Spiff

[The_Ghan]

Thanks for the reply.

 

I bought the Kato 10-354 JR Shinkansen Bullet Train Series 100 6 car set and was debating on whether or not to get the the 10-355 6 car add on set.

 

Spiff

 

Do it!  The train will look sensational.  I just took delivery of 2x 10-356 to make a full 16 car formation.  While the Series 0 looks cute as a 6-8 car formation I don't think the Series 100 does.  But my 16 car set looks like it means business!!!

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

[Spaceman Spiff]

The_Ghan, so when my wife freaks out on me I will tell her you told me to buy the extra cars  

 

Spiff

[Bernard]

That is an impressive club module layout!

[Spaceman Spiff]

Ya its a fun layout to run on during shows. Unfortunately due to space constraints we can only run on 40% of the layout during non show times.

 

Spiff

[The_Ghan]

The_Ghan, so when my wife freaks out on me I will tell her you told me to buy the extra cars  

 

Spiff

 

Spiff,

 

You've got two choices:

 

1. Tell your wife you made the decision while you were blind drunk, with your mistress over your knee setting out a line of coke and you just wanted to feel better after losing a heavy bet on the dogs ... that used to work for me ... until my wife found out I DIDN'T have a mistress after all ........

 

2. Tell her you need a 16 car series 100 so it doesn't get lost on that huge club layout !!!!

 

Cheers,

 

The_Ghan

 

PS: I was joking about the coke ... drugs are bad, we don't do drugs !!!

[Spaceman Spiff]

lol

[Spaceman Spiff]

Not the best videos (taken with iphone) but here is some video of the 100 on the club layout. The other train running is VIA F8 passenger train.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aG1L-WcYXng

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg13Hyg0m5E&feature=BF&list=ULenUwlMvHtWU&index=2

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mcub5Rhk9LM&feature=BF&list=ULenUwlMvHtWU&index=3

 

 

Spiff

[clem24]

Weird, why are the bi-level cars split up..?

 

Where is this? You're obviously Canadian..! That layout looks very familiar. Are you in Edmonton?

[Spaceman Spiff]

The cars are split up as I loaded them on the track as they came out of the cases. How are they normally run?

 

Yes I am in Edmonton, member of a N scale club.

 

 

Spiff

[David]

The bi-level cars are normally grouped in the exact center of the train.

 

The exact layout of the bi-level cars and the others depends on the formation (there are at least 3 different 16 car formations)

 

Depending on which formation, I think the bi-level groupings are (Top/Bottom):

 

Restaurant (168) - Green (149)

Green/Cafe (148) - Green (149)

Green/Coach (179) - Restaurant/Shop (169) - Green/Coach (179) - Green/Coach+Conductor (178)

 

Also, the formations with 2 bi-level cars there is a single level car (type 116 instead of 125 or 126 single level car) with a spot for the conductor next to the Green car (149).

[ShinCanadaSen]

Typically Kato includes a consist list of a typical make up. You should be able to match up the numbers from the bottom of each car to the list.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Thanks for the info.

 

Spiff

[clem24]

What mall is that? I'll be in Ed in a week. Thinking I should stop by! There was an HO layout at Londonderry a few years back.

[Spaceman Spiff]

We're still in Londonderry. There is the HO and N scale club there. We're open to the public on weekends with the clubs alternating operating days.

 

Spiff