New, affordable ICE3 announced.

[Martijn Meerts]

In the past, several people have shown an interest in de various ICE's, and especially the ICE3. There haven't been many decent models of it (the Minitrix ones are cheap, but crap. Most others are expensive), but it seems that that's going to change.

 

Heiko Stoll (of JapanModelRailways) has a small company called Modellbahn Union, with which he releases various non-standard German rolling stock. He recently announced a special version of the flirt train which will be made in cooperation with Lilliput. Last week, he announced a special version of the ICE3, in cooperation with Arnold. Historically, Arnold has some amazing locomotives, and in fact I still have several of their old steamers, which are probably some 25-30 years old and still run fine.

 

The announced ICE3 is an 8-car set, with all the standard stuff like flywheels, directional lights etc. In addition it has interior light and a plug for a decoder (I expect the standard 6-pin version). Supposed to come out around April 2011 for 299 euro.

[Nozomi4ever]

Well.. Currently there 's ICE 3 that are affordable in the market called Piko and Mehano. But to my opinion , I think I will stick with my expensive Märklin ICE 3MF instead. I got that for 376 Euros  

http://shop.strato.de/epages/62531443.sf/en_GB/?ViewObjectID=27806430  http://www.modellbahnunion.com/produkte/iceenglish.html (I guess these two must be the company that sells these)

[Martijn Meerts]

The marklin isn't N-scale though, and not sure how Piko and Mehano are nowadays, but they used to nog be "decent" :)

 

strato.de isn't a company that sells trains btw, they just provide online shopping carts. Modellbahnunion.com and Japanmodelrailways.com will be selling them.

 

 

 

I actually have a Marklin ICE2, 4-car set with interior light and marklin motorola decoder. I can honestly say it is by FAR the worst train I've got. It runs terrible, the light flickers and is noisy even when the train isn't running (yes, there's noise coming from the light strips....), the train itself is noisy, and the plastic used to make it is cheap. It's been sent back to be serviced, but all I got was "it's running just fine" ...

[westfalen]

Affordable? For about 2/3 of that price you can get a full 16 car Kato Shinkansen.

[Martijn Meerts]

For European train standards, it's affordable yes. Fleischmann for example has a 2-part ICE1 which costs around 350 euro, with each additional car being around 60-70 euro.

[westfalen]

At those prices by my calculations if Fleischmann made a 16 car Shinkansen it would cost 1190 Euros, US$1658 or 135840 yen. I'm glad they don't, Japanese prices have spoiled us.

[to2leo]

Just want to warn people here.  If the ICE3 has the same mechanics and coupling design as Arnold's AVE Velaro then it is a DON'T BUY!!!!  I got the Arnold's AVE Velaro last year and it has become one of the biggest regrets of my high speed purchases.

 

Here are the issues:

1) Poor motor performance, the motor is slow and cannot even pull the 8 cars up a Kato Viaduct.

2) The coupling is poorly design, once that coupling pin goes in, don't expect to uncouple without breaking one of two couplers in the process.

3) Long wait to get fix.  I used the warranty from Arnold and it takes more than 6 months to have the rep from US to investigate the coupling system, repair it and finally admit that the coupling system is for semi-permanent coupling.  The only bonus I got is a extra bag of couplers for my future use so that I can replace them whenever it is broken when I take them apart.

 

So be warned, check the design before ever buying an Arnold ICE3 or Velaro!!!

[Nozomi4ever]

The marklin isn't N-scale though, and not sure how Piko and Mehano are nowadays, but they used to nog be "decent" :)

 

strato.de isn't a company that sells trains btw, they just provide online shopping carts. Modellbahnunion.com and Japanmodelrailways.com will be selling them.

 

 

 

I actually have a Marklin ICE2, 4-car set with interior light and marklin motorola decoder. I can honestly say it is by FAR the worst train I've got. It runs terrible, the light flickers and is noisy even when the train isn't running (yes, there's noise coming from the light strips....), the train itself is noisy, and the plastic used to make it is cheap. It's been sent back to be serviced, but all I got was "it's running just fine" ...

 

 

No... ICE 3MF from Marklin is a great improvement.There 's no such thing as noisy for ICE 3 when its not running. I have seen Arnold ICE 3 before. It is really small and of crappy design. The word "Arnold" can easily turns my attention away. Arnold is seriously made in China. In fact the best patented design couplers are the Marklin ICE 3. It wouldn't break easily and secondly,it can uncoupled or coupled with one click BTW, if you want to get rid the noisy sound , I suggest you get the Loksound M4 ICE 1/2 decorder from ESU. It 's much better..

[Nozomi4ever]

Just want to warn people here.  If the ICE3 has the same mechanics and coupling design as Arnold's AVE Velaro then it is a DON'T BUY!!!!  I got the Arnold's AVE Velaro last year and it has become one of the biggest regrets of my high speed purchases.

 

Here are the issues:

1) Poor motor performance, the motor is slow and cannot even pull the 8 cars up a Kato Viaduct.

2) The coupling is poorly design, once that coupling pin goes in, don't expect to uncouple without breaking one of two couplers in the process.

3) Long wait to get fix.  I used the warranty from Arnold and it takes more than 6 months to have the rep from US to investigate the coupling system, repair it and finally admit that the coupling system is for semi-permanent coupling.  The only bonus I got is a extra bag of couplers for my future use so that I can replace them whenever it is broken when I take them apart.

 

So be warned, check the design before ever buying an Arnold ICE3 or Velaro!!!

 

 

Well.. I really think they are sharing the same design. The ICE 3 from Arnold has been released before but except that it 's not named Dortmund.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZfnE4CfjWE

[Martijn Meerts]

The marklin isn't N-scale though, and not sure how Piko and Mehano are nowadays, but they used to nog be "decent" :)

 

strato.de isn't a company that sells trains btw, they just provide online shopping carts. Modellbahnunion.com and Japanmodelrailways.com will be selling them.

 

 

 

I actually have a Marklin ICE2, 4-car set with interior light and marklin motorola decoder. I can honestly say it is by FAR the worst train I've got. It runs terrible, the light flickers and is noisy even when the train isn't running (yes, there's noise coming from the light strips....), the train itself is noisy, and the plastic used to make it is cheap. It's been sent back to be serviced, but all I got was "it's running just fine" ...

 

 

No... ICE 3MF from Marklin is a great improvement.There 's no such thing as noisy for ICE 3 when its not running. I have seen Arnold ICE 3 before. It is really small and of crappy design. The word "Arnold" can easily turns my attention away. Arnold is seriously made in China. In fact the best patented design couplers are the Marklin ICE 3. It wouldn't break easily and secondly,it can uncoupled or coupled with one click BTW, if you want to get rid the noisy sound , I suggest you get the Loksound M4 ICE 1/2 decorder from ESU. It 's much better..

 

I guess Arnold quality has suffered a lot after being bought up by 1 company which got bought by another just to be merged with another one that then got bought up again etc. etc. etc. =)

 

I don't mind the made in China thing. As long as the product is good, I don't care where it was made. Most Tomix is made in China, and yet most Tomix trains are excellent. My Marklin ICE2 is made in Germany, but it certainly doesn't look like it ..

 

As for Marklin, I'm not planning on ever building a Marklin layout. That thought passed when I started Japanese N-scale and found out that Lenz 0-scale isn't much more expensive than Marklin, but a lot more fun. I've also started to get really annoyed by the Marklins center studs for some reason. Should I ever change my mind, I'll do a Royal Bavarian Railways only layout, so the ICE2 has been demoted to a display model, with the exception that it's not on display. It's definitely not worth installing a loksound in the thing ;)

[Nozomi]

Just want to warn people here.  If the ICE3 has the same mechanics and coupling design as Arnold's AVE Velaro then it is a DON'T BUY!!!!  I got the Arnold's AVE Velaro last year and it has become one of the biggest regrets of my high speed purchases.

 

I fully support your view. My AVE-103 Velaro from Arnold is the worst possible performer! It's such a shame that it's not possible to buy a decent ICE 3/Velaro modell. The ICE-T from Fleischmann is great but I prefer the longer, pointier nose of the ICE 3

[to2leo]

Just an update, my AVE Velaro finally can climb the Kato's Viaduct structures.  I added a lead weight sheet in the front engine car and position it to pull rather push the 8 cars onward.

 

As for my Minitrix ICE-3.  Apparently when I got the motor replaced from warranty, Minitrix had somehow rewired it the wrong way so that it is going backward when I choose forward.  The saga continues...

[Martijn Meerts]

Minitrix isn't what it used to be anymore, yet their prices seem to not reflect their loss of quality. One of the ICE3's actually spontaneously caught fire, burning the shell and part of the circuit board, another has recently started running really erratically for no apparent reason.

 

I have to say though, the trains do run a LOT and don't get serviced as much as they should. On the other hand, the few Kato/Tomix/MicroAce trains that run on my father's layout run just as much, and they're still going :)

[jappomania]

Hi!

Hi have some ICE in my collection, I think the best reproduction depend wich model you would consider

BTW only Fleischmann, Minitrix and Arnold produce N scale models all the rest is in H0, Z and TT (Marklin, Roco, Lima, Pico, Mehano (in this case is the same Roco model but the economic version and the reason is simple: Mehano was an OEM for a lot of big producer, like Lima - all the last TGV series - Roco, Fleischmann, Life Like, Atlas..) 

I talk only about N scale, we have some series of ICE, the first one was the ICE experimental, only from Minitrix is a good model, only the pantograph are aged but is not a big trouble, now is possible to change it with a new Sommerfeld. The real problem was the coupling system, it's a really sh..t, it's broke at 90% and the train take current part from first head car and part from the second so if the train is not completely connected doesn't run. 

The ICE1, 2 and T from Fleischmann are amazing, I think the best ICE model, in addiction you can collect 3 different ICE1, one with 2 panto for internal service, one with 4 panto for international service and the prototype ICE Amtrack (old special run)

The ICE 1 from Minitrix is a good model but if possible is better to buy Fleischmann.

Take care about ICE start set because normally are economic version of the original and some ICE have fantasy livery (dark grey Avantgarde, blue Superman) .

ICE 3 from old Arnold (before Rivarossi bankrupt) is a really good model, you need only to take care to coupling uncoupling procedure, the new second run is similar but unfortunatelly the first run (2009, produced in Cina in Velaro version) have a lot of trouble (transmission, coupling), the Velaro second run 04/2010 has been improved and now run similar (not the same of course) compared with Kato AVE, some people talk about this on spanish forum, and some shop in Spain for her buyer can order from Arnold the spare parts resolve the trouble, unfortunatelly the item number is the same so is impossible to distinguish the first to the second release, only if you put on rail the train you can see. The last ICE 3 release are already improved and with a little difference compared with the old Arnold (air conditioner block over the rooftop near the doors) and they have a different cars number so you can correctly run both trains on the same layout

The Minitrix ICE 3 is (for me) to much toy like, of coursethe price is low but the quality too, is not the same Arnold model (403) but is the international model with 4 panto (406) that run from Germany to France like the POS TGV. This model has been also announced from Arnold, I think is better if wait ;-)

Of course you can't compare the price of all these trains with japanese market, the ICE experimental 5 cars on used market in good condition is around 150€, the ICE 1 from Fleischmann is simple to find new, around 80-90€ the head cars and 20-30€ the single coach, the ICE2 and T are the only really expensive, the complete ICE 3/Velaro 8 Arnold is around 220/240€, Minitrix around 170/180€

p.s. the Arnold Velaro is not a correct model, they don't reproduce the right cars type, is only the german ICE repainted in Renfe colors (in Spain named "renfritos"), for that's reason is possible that you find in the future this train on special offer like the last AVE operadora paint (launch price 239€, now on sale at 129€ !!!)

If someone need I can write where you can find this train at good price (the same shop where I buy it ;-)

 

ciao

Massimo

[brill27mcb]

The ICE1, 2 and T from Fleischmann are amazing, I think the best ICE model, in addiction you can collect 3 different ICE1, one with 2 panto for internal service, one with 4 panto for international service and the prototype ICE Amtrack (old special run)

In addition, there are two Fleischmann N versions of the domestic ICE1. The early locomotives and coaches have a white-lettering-on-red "DB" logo, while later versions have the later red-lettering-on-white "DBAG" logo. I discovered this because my train is unfortunately mixed. The later coaches came with a yellow slip of paper in the box that notes a revised scheme.

 

The Minitrix ICE 3 is (for me) to much toy like, of course the price is low but the quality too, is not the same Arnold model (403) but is the international model with 4 panto (406) that run from Germany to France like the POS TGV. This model has been also announced from Arnold, I think is better if wait ;-)

I was lucky to gather a complete Minitrix ICE3 train from various sources. The early powered car had plastic axle gears which tend to split. I replaced them with spare part axlesets from Maerklin/Minitrix which have the later brass gears (even available at Walthers), and the train now runs fine. Of course, after all of that work on my part, they now offer a complete and improved version of this train!

 

... the ICE 1 from Fleischmann is simple to find new, around 80-90€ the head cars and 20-30€ the single coach ...

 

ciao

Massimo

Are they really simple to find where you are? I was again lucky to gather together a good ICE1 train from various sources. I still need a second 7446 second class coach, preferably with the earlier "DB" logo, to make a 10-coach train. I have been unable to find one from the US.

 

Finally, are there no N scale models of complete Italian (ETR) high-speed trains available?

 

Rich K.

[to2leo]

 

Finally, are there no N scale models of complete Italian (ETR) high-speed trains available?

 

Rich K.

 

You can try ACME.

http://www.tee-usa.com/store/acme-n-scale.html

It is a new brand in N scale so I don't know the quality.

[jappomania]

 

Finally, are there no N scale models of complete Italian (ETR) high-speed trains available?

 

Rich K.

 

You can try ACME.

http://www.tee-usa.com/store/acme-n-scale.html

It is a new brand in N scale so I don't know the quality.

 

I'm sorry, I already ask to Mr.Buonopane (one of the ACME owner), until mid 2011 the ETR600 is only a dream, the first production batch is planned for the SBB-CFF version and only in 4 cars base set, the add-on set is planned to be released only if the first batch are sold-out in a small period, otherwise......

(the same like Kato TGV ligne du couer ;-) only 6 cars and the add-on was never produced)

About ETR500 and ETR460/480 only a toy type model was reproduced (from New Ray), die-cast body 4 cars set.

In addiction  you can find the dummy ETR500 PLT and ETR480(only the locomotive) released in the past from Del Prado (newsstand collection of static locos)

That's easy to motorize with transplanting the ICE1 o 2 chassis to ETR500 shell, for intermediate cars you have only the scratchbuild option. (that's the unique option if you want collect italian N scale models)

If you need ICE locomotive and cars, you can try on German shop

(I bought all my ICE directly in Germany except the old Arnold ICE 3, of course is possible that you don't find all in a unique shop, you need to ask  to more than one or two so maybe you can find some cars at low price and some at regular price but at the end you can complete your train formation)

an example..

http://www.menzels-lokschuppen.de/Modellbahn/Fleischmann/Spur-N/Personenwagen/

http://www.menzels-lokschuppen.de/Modellbahn/Fleischmann/Spur-N/Triebzuege/

http://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/gattungliste/Hochgeschw. Wagen/2-2-001019-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-gatt-gb-p-0/gattungliste.html

and don't forget ebay.de option, alot of people speak english and accept Paypal

http://desc.shop.ebay.de/Modelleisenbahn-/9035/i.html?LH_TitleDesc=1&Spur=N&_trkparms=65%253A12%257C66%253A2%257C39%253A1%257C72%253A3355&rt=nc&_nkw=ice&_dmpt=DE_Modellbau_Modelleisenbahnen&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_sop=1&_sc=1

 

ciao

Massimo

[brill27mcb]

 

I'm sorry, I already ask to Mr.Buonopane (one of the ACME owner), until mid 2011 the ETR600 is only a dream, the first production batch is planned for the SBB-CFF version and only in 4 cars base set, the add-on set is planned to be released only if the first batch are sold-out in a small period, otherwise......

(the same like Kato TGV ligne du couer ;-) only 6 cars and the add-on was never produced)

About ETR500 and ETR460/480 only a toy type model was reproduced (from New Ray), die-cast body 4 cars set.

In addiction  you can find the dummy ETR500 PLT and ETR480(only the locomotive) released in the past from Del Prado (newsstand collection of static locos)

That's easy to motorize with transplanting the ICE1 o 2 chassis to ETR500 shell, for intermediate cars you have only the scratchbuild option. (that's the unique option if you want collect italian N scale models)

If you need ICE locomotive and cars, you can try on German shop

(I bought all my ICE directly in Germany except the old Arnold ICE 3, of course is possible that you don't find all in a unique shop, you need to ask  to more than one or two so maybe you can find some cars at low price and some at regular price but at the end you can complete your train formation)

an example..

http://www.menzels-lokschuppen.de/Modellbahn/Fleischmann/Spur-N/Personenwagen/

http://www.menzels-lokschuppen.de/Modellbahn/Fleischmann/Spur-N/Triebzuege/

http://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/gattungliste/Hochgeschw. Wagen/2-2-001019-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-gatt-gb-p-0/gattungliste.html

and don't forget ebay.de option, alot of people speak english and accept Paypal

http://desc.shop.ebay.de/Modelleisenbahn-/9035/i.html?LH_TitleDesc=1&Spur=N&_trkparms=65%253A12%257C66%253A2%257C39%253A1%257C72%253A3355&rt=nc&_nkw=ice&_dmpt=DE_Modellbau_Modelleisenbahnen&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_sop=1&_sc=1

 

ciao

Massimo

Thank you, Massimo.

 

The issue with ebay.de is that most private sellers will only ship within Germany, or maybe the EU. When I ask about sending to the US, I usually get a pleasant refusal. If a seller *is* willing to ship to the US, they usually only accept bank transfer for payment. That is apparently normal in Europe, but at my bank here it costs US$40 and I have to go to the bank to do it.

 

German retail sellers, whether on their own website or Ebay, are (as I understand it) commercially required to use guaranteed shipping and are held responsible for any packages lost in shipping. Thus their shipping rates to the US are typically 25 to 40 Eur, which is a lot of money for one or two N-gauge coaches. Their purchase price for the item is also higher than the private sellers.

 

It is frustrating, since the trains I want are for sale there. Does anyone know of solutions to these problems?

 

Rich K.

[cumber_s]

As I am German I can perhaps participate in this discussion:

 

The Shipping Part:

International shipping , mostly done by DHL , the former state monopolist is (as far as I know) the only resonable transcontinental shipping

method.

But they are extremely expensive , last year which I spaend in Japan I spend a lot of time walking to the post office sending packages ;-)

The Prive for sending a 2 Kg small parcel via sal (second class air) was 1900 yen (=14 euros, back then)

The A Packet with the same category from Germany to Japan with a simmilar weight costs 40 euros, the sea freight variation

(a mistake by the father of my girlfriend) was 28 euros! And it took 2 Months.

 

The banking is a understandable problem , bank transfers are not that common outside Europe , they are standart and I  myself (having to bank accounts at two Banks) pay no fees at all.

Ebay is a quite difficult part, beeing quite infected with "questionable Persons" , I myself had a few very disapointing

incidences (like a relatively new notebook with I sold to a guy and wich he returned in Parts, saying he is not satisfied with the performance ). I for myself can understand this scepticism with ebay .

 

But I hope you could solve this problem:

 

A shop I peronaly know(as a customer is schweikhardt , modeltrain supermarket with quite good prices.

link just googel the name or modelleisenbahn (if the page is ugly and red/yello -> your there)

They ship internationally and are quite reliable, but not that friendly (they always followed me when I was in the shop like a would always shoplift)

 

Hope I could help you guys