A question: timed overtakes

[bikkuri bahn]

I regularly monitor (and sometimes post) on the various forums covering high speed rail, as well one or two U.S. railfan forums, and on one site an interesting discussion arose about Philadelphia's SEPTA commuter railroad and its attempts to modernize.  One especially knowledgeable poster stated that adoption of modern railway practices was rejected on this system due to resistance from the tradition-bound employees used to the "steam-era" practices prevalent on US railways.  One of the practices that was rejected was the concept of "timed overtakes"- where slower trains pull into a siding (not necessarily a station siding) to allow faster trains to pass through on the main line.  The advantage of this system, of course, is that it allows different types of trains (slow/medium/fast) to share the same track without the need to build expensive additional mainline track.  Apparently this operation is little used (or not used at all??) on US commuter railroads, though it is used on subway/metro systems there.  Of course, this is standard practice on railways in Japan (just this summer I saw it in action on the Hanwa Line, where locals pull into a station siding to allow Haruka ltd. express trains to pass to/from Kansai Airport), as well as Europe.  Being that a few Aussies are members of this forum, including professional railway staff, are timed overtakes used on commuter railways in Australia?

[westfalen]

I'll let those from other states give a report on their own localities but here in Brisbane the answer would be not really but I don't think I'd blame the employees. There are a few instances of express trains timed to overtake stopping trains on long sections of multiple track in the peak hours but nothing like in Japan. The main reason for QR running trains express is to reduce overcrowding by skipping stops rather than trying to provide a quicker journey, apart from the Gold Coast/Airport (which are a bit of a show for visiting tourists) and Sunshine Coast (which possess a vocal user group who seem to have a direct line to the minister for transport) trains most express runs only skip a few stations and there is no regular stopping pattern for those that do, I don't think there are any two express trains on the Ipswich line that share the same stopping pattern. When I'm driving a train with express running I have to write the stations we skip on a piece of paper and stick it to the dashboard in front of me as a reminder of where to stop. You also have to have the trains and infrastructure in top condition and spend the money to keep them that way, I don't think our standard of timekeeping would allow the precision interaction of the different classes of train you see in Japan, on our one remaining line with much single track the timetable is so padded that when you manage beside all odds to run on time you end up sitting at stations for several minutes waiting time. QR management and the government talk of providing a world class service but I'm sure they've never been to Japan and actually ridden trains there to see what one is like.

[Martijn Meerts]

In Holland they tend to delay local trains to allow an express train to pass, even if that express train is already 15 minutes delayed and is only heading to it's final destination (where it usually has to wait 25-30 minutes before doing the return trip..) =)

[marknewton]

BB, we do it here in Sydney to some extent. Mainly to allow the interurbans to get around slower locals. But in the inner parts of the network there are lengthy section of multiple track. So the usual practice here is to run the 'urbans on the main, the semi-fasts on the suburban, and the slow trains on the local. Much as Alvin says about Brisbane, we have many different stopping patterns.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[marknewton]

When I'm driving a train with express running I have to write the stations we skip on a piece of paper and stick it to the dashboard in front of me as a reminder of where to stop.

 

Jeez, don't they give you a cheat sheet? We get a copy of the diagram for every shift, showing start times, stopping patterns, altered working, the lot.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[westfalen]

When I'm driving a train with express running I have to write the stations we skip on a piece of paper and stick it to the dashboard in front of me as a reminder of where to stop.

 

Jeez, don't they give you a cheat sheet? We get a copy of the diagram for every shift, showing start times, stopping patterns, altered working, the lot.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

They stopped going to the effort of putting details of express running on our job cards some time ago, some are still there but if there's no express running mentioned you don't assume there isn't any. This is what we get, this is my job on Wednesday, the return from Cleveland, 1M11 at 0724, runs express from Manly to Park Road.

[bikkuri bahn]

Thank you all for the very informative responses.  Regarding the inner parts of the Sydney network, a similar system can be found especially on the private railways in Kansai, notably the Keihan Mainline on its final stretch into Osaka.

[westfalen]

Thank you all for the very informative responses.  Regarding the inner parts of the Sydney network, a similar system can be found especially on the private railways in Kansai, notably the Keihan Mainline on its final stretch into Osaka.

I found the Keihan and Kintetsu lines into Osaka very impressive operations, not to mention the Hankyu.

[Mudkip Orange]

Septa is on crack. The main line is nominally four tracks, with local side platforms - perfect for a local-express setup. Except a decent chunk of the time they run locals on the inside tracks, and you board via these ghettolicious wooden platform extensions that are laid across the outer track at railhead level. Meanwhile, the Amtrak Keystone service to and from Harrisburg runs on the outside track - because Amtrak won't use Septa's slippery wooden platform extensions at Paoli or Exton.

 

Of course, this means that if a (fast) Amtrak comes upon a (slow) Septa local on the inside track, it has to halt in advance of the station, lest it run over the passengers using the wooden extensions to board the local.

 

Of course this would be easily solved by junking the 100-year-old lever interlockings and replacing them with CTC and strategically placed electronically activated crossovers. Alternately, putting in proper island platforms at the two or three express stations would eliminate most of the crossover need entirely, but it would require earthworks (gasp!) and maybe even right-of-way acquisition (THE HORROR!) and that's just not going to happen in a state like Pennsylvania where every barn and outhouse is historic, and everything down to the dog turds along the side of the road is inexplicably linked to American history and our historic colonial heritage.