Elevated track question \ Unitrack viaduct issue

[nik_n_dad]

Hello.

 

We're working on the new (n-scale) layout, and have an elevated portion of the track that meanders about.  I was originally going to use the Kato single track viaduct track, but Nik was rolling some of our long cars on the track and found that some of our cars "bang" against the walls of the viaduct (348mm).  So, this solution won't work.  (For a variety of aesthetic and functional reasons, we'd prefer to have piers elevating the track instead of "building up the area" under the track.

 

1) Has anyone shaved down or cut off the walls of the kato viaduct?  If so, How did you do it and how did it look?

 

2) Are the walls of the Tomix viaduct any shorter?  What piers do you use with the tomix track (and do we use the kato snap-track adapter to use it with unitrack)?

 

3) We aren't set into an particular region or era- we are doing the ultimate free-lance layout.  That said, what are some other thoughts on elevating a part of the track and having it both look good, and resemble something prototypical?

 

As always, Thanks in advance.

[Krackel Hopper]

hey hey,

 

I believe Tomix single viaduct track runs into the same problem as the Kato when running longer cars.

 

Tomix does offer a slightly different solution though.  Their new(ish) wide PC rail.. they sell a "bridge beam" piece that basically provides a spot on the underside of the tracks to connect to piers.  You would want the Kato snap-track connector to provide your transition from Kato to Tomix..

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10089697

 

Jon

[KenS]

The problem with the single-track viaduct is that the walls are only 10mm from the rail, and have supports that subtract a bit from that. On double-track viaduct the clearance is 15mm if you don't use catenary poles that mount inside the wall (Kato makes both inside-mount and outside mount for the double-track viaduct). As you noted, with longer cars and tight enough curves, the car sides, typically the underbody detail, in the middle of car will hit the walls.

 

The walls themselves are fairly low (about 5.5 mm above railhead), which is reasonably prototypical. Viaducts generally have some kind of safety railing, even if it's only a metal handrail. That's probably both for track workers, and in case a train needs to be evacuated on foot.

 

Since you're not trying for a strict prototypical look, you could remove the railings. I think you'd loose some resistance to flexing if you did that, but the amount of plastic below the track should make it fairly rigid.  That seems like a lot of work though.

 

An alternative would be to use normal Unitrack, lay it out on some 1/4-inch plywood and mark the necessary clearance, then cut out a continuous strip of plywood of the correct length and width. Paint it gray (latex interior primer would look good) so it doesn't stand out where you can see it below the track, then glue some strip styrene to the sides (with epoxy) to make walls, and decide on some way to mount it atop your piers.

 

Perhaps that's not much less work than removing the walls from the viaduct though.

[inobu]

On an old layout I had a similar problem (SD90/43MAC and the Gunderson Maxi) the rubbing occurred on the entry and mid radius of the ducts. I was able to bend the walls of the via duct enough for the cars to clear. The play in the uni-joints and piers alters the dynamics of the radii.

 

You can test and verify the clearance by placing the viaducts on a flat surface without the piers insuring a perfect flat half circle. Run the cars through the test loop and mark the rubbing points. You can address the areas needed.  

 

The one issue I had, was the ripple look of the walls but I took it as the lesser of the evil. I'm sure with a jig and a hair dryer you can heat it to a more uniform arc. The wall were rather flexible.

 

Check for the over all consistency on your loop first.

 

Inobu      

[CaptOblivious]

With Tomix's wider track spacing, I'm betting that they will provide better clearance. I'll measure the clearances later today for you. The problem is that they (neither the single-track nor the double-track viaducts) will not fit the Kato adaptor: You'll need a small length of regular straight finetrack for the transition.

[CaptOblivious]

Both Tomix regular single-track and double-track viaduct have clearances of 12mm from outside of rail to inside of wall. I imagine the wide PC stuff will have very similar clearances.

[Guest Closed Account 1]

How wide are the Kato Double Viaduct pieces (100mm?) and how high can you build with the Incline Pier pieces - Kato 23-046 if you used multiple sets?

 

I'm interested in using the Incline set to connect to a lower level yard.

 

Unitrack - Double Track Viaduct Set - Kato 20-840 (N scale)

[inobu]

How wide are the Kato Double Viaduct pieces (100mm?) and how high can you build with the Incline Pier pieces - Kato 23-046 if you used multiple sets?

 

I'm interested in using the Incline set to connect to a lower level yard.

 

Unitrack - Double Track Viaduct Set - Kato 20-840 (N scale)

 

 

I played around with the Via Duct and piers and here is what I found. Although you can still find them the 20-840 was replaced by the V13 or 20-872-1. It looks different in that the latter has the banked curves and the older 840 uses the plain concrete track curve. The old tracks can be popped out from the via duct and replaced by the newer gray ballasted track if you want.

 

The incline pier kits are 20-048 which is integrated in the V12 (20-871-1) kit and 20-049. The 049 fits in between the 048. The Piers peaks to 50mm or 2 inches.

 

The piers are a bit tricky in that the % grade correlates with track segment length and pier spacing. Instead of hi jacking this thread I or you can start one on piers if you want and I can post what I found.

 

Inobu

[cteno4]

How wide are the Kato Double Viaduct pieces (100mm?) and how high can you build with the Incline Pier pieces - Kato 23-046 if you used multiple sets?

 

I'm interested in using the Incline set to connect to a lower level yard.

 

Unitrack - Double Track Viaduct Set - Kato 20-840 (N scale)

 

Webskipper,

 

everything clears on the kato double viaduct track. they are 77mm wide total and 15mm from the outside of the rail to the inside of the wall with the standard 33mm track spacing. this along with the big radius makes all trains go through them well. only clearance problem i have ever had was with double decker E1 and E4s hitting the double track truss bridge at the top corner if you come into the bridge from a curve. this can be solved with a 128 piece between the bridge and the curve or just shave out the little curved brace in the top corner of the truss bridge.

 

you can build with the incline pier set. worst problem is the transition to flat. you need to be careful in how it bends at the joint. they use to sell a plate track 20-003 that started the incline gracefully, but this has been long out of production unfortunately. i have all these pieces if you have questions we can chat with inobu.

 

cheers

 

jeff

 

cheers

 

jeff

[Mattybgoodtrees]

I use kato viaduct and Really like it only thing is I don't use the double track viaduct just single so far. But I know one very cool thing is the kato viaduct station it comes in 3 parts a entrance a set of stores and the a 2 piece extension for each side all 3 parts have your trains ride above the 3 sections. So all 3 parts cost around 180 but you can buy the whole set for aroundn 120 part number 23-125 this is a must have for anyone using the elevated kato viaduct. Has anyone else used this if so I was wondering if there any good ideas for add on's for the viaduct station as I don't have it yet but my girlfriends getting it for me for christmas.

[cteno4]

matty,

 

i've used the kato station buildings and plate sets a lot in my own playing and our club layout. what specifically do you want for the add ons for the station? more plates for a larger station? more buildings?

 

you can order plate sets that are two plates and 3 pairs of station sides (low, high small windows, high large windows). these are not cheap. if you want a large station and dont want to use the plates you can build your own support by laminating thin masonite on the bottom, 3/16" foam core in the center and formica on the top. this results in something that is very stiff and flat (laminating the three materials really helps keep this) and the foam core center is just at where the fingers from the side walls want to go into the plates so you can just poke them into the foam layer where you want the walls. much cheaper than buying a ton of plates. also allows you to make your station whatever size you want, not just multiples of the plate sections.

 

you can get the station entrance as a separate model as well as the two store/restaurant buildings.

 

tomix also makes a couple of under viaduct buildings, but the height is a bit more. you could saw off the top to fit under kato viaduct at usual viaduct height though.

 

another trick to multiply your buildings if you make your station wider than one viaduct plate (the buildings are 1 viaduct plate width) is to cut them in half down the center long dimension. you can then put the halfs on either side of the station or double them up if you only see one side of your station.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[Guest Closed Account 1]

I'm using the Kato elevated station in a double wide format. Since only the front will be seen the back half of the station is supported by the double track piers.

 

I have 2 Passings with a common single track for the green line on the trak module for full length shinkansens.

[Mattybgoodtrees]

Cteno hey thanks a lot pal you got some great ideas I'm definetly gonna be following post on here more asi see a lot of guys like you that I get the feeling have a lot of experience in model trains. ya know what even though I've been model training since I was a child this is my first layout I've done on my own and its is my first N scale kato layout. I hope to get some ideas for it off this forum and I'm also going to greatest hobby on tour in sacramento in February do you or anyone know of a good book for building N scale layouts.