ShinCanadaSen 2.0

[ShinCanadaSen]

Hi Guys,

 

I have always love trains, but after a short trip to Osaka Japan in 2006, I returned to Canada with Train fever ! Unfortunately the fever didn't completely set in while in Japan so I did not purchase any train related stuff while there. Upon returning to Canada I turned to the internet and did some research, I found Kato Unitrack so I went out to the local hobby store and was dismayed to find that they did not carry Unitrack or any Japanese trains :( I was heartbroken.

 

After checking Kato USA's website I located a couple of stores that carried their products and I was happy to find and purchase loose track to make an Oval and the V2 Single Viaduct Set. Unfortunately as I was unable to locate any Japanese trains, I also purchased a DCC equipped Kato AC4400W (CP Colours), a few odd pieces of rolling stock and a Bachmann EZ-DCC controller set. My wife came home to find me siting in the middle of my new train set on the living room floor grinning from ear to ear like an 8 year old boy on Christmas morning.

 

After reconfiguring the track multiple times over several day I was informed that the track had to move into the guest room / den. So I decided to get 2 doors (24"x80"), hinge them together and throw them on a pair of wooden work frames. I now had a 2032mm x 1219mm (48"x80") Layout bench (it all folded away to keep the wife happy too).

 

After a while the layout became what I called ShinCanadaSen ! See attachment #01.

 

ShinCanadaSen was 4 nested ovals the outer oval being R348 and the inner oval R249. The ovals were connected on one of the long sides with what I decided to call a crossover matrix (See attachment # 02) that would allow mw to run all 4 loops as one long continuous track in either direction.

 

Then something a little unexpected happened. I had a son ! so my train room was converted to his bedroom. He's now almost 3 and we have recently started setting up basic loops of track and running trains around for a little while. This has rekindle my desire to make a larger more permanent layout. Unfortunately we have no room. I have been thinking about what I could build given some room and I have decided to plan out a new layout, you know just in case I win the lottery or something.

 

So here we go... ShinCanadaSen 2.0 !

 

First, things i learned with the first Version:

- Ovals can get a little monotonous after a while.

- my 500 Series Shinkansen looks a little goofy on small radius curves and more dangerously it will sometimes bump into trains on adjacent track while going around R249 Curves

- Definitely Prefer DCC operation to standard DC operation.

 

Features I would Like:

- Run full length 16 Car Shinkansens and Locos + 20 Freight Cars (is this Prototypical for freight in Japan?).

- Have at least 4 Lines, 2 for Shinkansens and 2 shared Local passenger / Freight lines, A nice little Tram line in one corner would be a nice addition too !

- Have all 4 lines joined in such a way that it can form 1 continuous loop for times when you just want to let loose with one train.

- I would like the following "areas", A large city station, a suburban / rural station, a Shinkansen staging yard, A large and several smaller freight yards all connected with the longest straight away possible.

 

I haven't decided if it will be modular or not yet but that's kind of the beauty of unitrack.

 

I'm thinking of designing 3 versions of this layout, the "big" version for 16 Car Shinkansens, a half sized version for 8 car Shinkansens and a "Mini" 1/4 sized version for 4 car shinkansens (probably all the space I can afford).

 

Also this design is going to focus on cramming a maximum amount of track into the layout, my inspiration being Unitrack layout # 614 (Attachment # 03).

 

So now for the real reason I'm here...

 

Are there any comments, concerns or Ideas before I actually start designing the layout ! :)

 

Thanks

[KenS]

Ambitious plan, but not unreasonable. I don't think a 20-car freight is unrealistic for Japan; I've seen ones that long on YouTube. The multiple freight yards may be problematic, as even a small freight yard has to be pretty large.  It may be more effective to have one large freight yard as both origin and destination for the freights, perhaps.

 

I have a sixteen-car 500-series, and it looks great on a long curve. Keep in mind it's about 54 inches (1.4m) long, so you'll need a long run between stations unless you want one end in each station (which will detract from the realism a bit). As you've noted, the long Shinkansen cars look better on large-radius curves. I use the 414/381 banked concrete-tie unitrack for my outer loop (my Shinkansen/Rapid line), and it looks pretty good on that, but I wouldn't want to run it one something tighter (it would work fine, but the overhang becomes really obvious).

 

One benefit of going modular, or rather sectional (modules are intended to connect to any other module, sectional layouts are just big ones that come apart for transportation) is that you could build an 8-car station now, as two parts, and insert more length later when you have more room, by separating them and adding a new section in the middle.

 

And if you build something permanent like layout #614, don't forget to arrange for access to the bits in the middle (lift-up hatches or similar).  Derailments always happen where you can't reach them. 

 

Also, when it comes time to build the layout, don't underestimate how much work it will be.  It's better to have some way to get part of it up and running, so you don't have to spend months or years before you can run a train.

[CaptOblivious]

Figure on  a 248mm straight holding two cars. For shinkansen, it will hold less than two cars. Thus, a 16-car station will require, let us say, 17 lengths of 248mm track: Very long!

 

In a cramped space, I think you can have either a spaghetti bowl (ala your plan 3) or long stations, but not really both. The station in your plan three will hold about a 6-car train.

 

Re: Freight: container trains, from my observations, max out at about 25-26 cars. The freight depot I want to model (Shinagawa Depot in north central-Tokyo) can handle, I think Bill said, 18 car consists at most. So 20 is a perfectly reasonable number. But again, remember, to handle a 20-car train will require no less than 10 248mm  sections of track! (> 8 feet!) Plus room for the yard ladder! That's quite long.

[KenS]

Keep in mind it's about 54 inches (1.4m) long...

 

I think what you actually need to keep in mind is that I'm an idiot.  A 16-car Kato 500 series is 2.55m (100.4 inches) long, not 1.4m, which I'd have known if I consulted my station construction notes (or thought for a minute) since I measured it once when designing my big station.  The individual cars are 158mm coupler-to-coupler, except for the cab cars which are 168mm. The length of 54 inches is the length of a typical 10-car commuter train, and most of my platforms are that long, so it sticks in my memory.

 

So it takes a bit over 10x 248mm of station platform, and around 12x 248mm of total station including the curves in the tracks for an island platform (side platform stations would be shorter). My station is a bit over 10 feet long (3.1m), but it includes some extra length.

 

It's possible an older or non-Kato model would be longer, as Kato has fairly close-coupled cars on this model, but I don't think that's the case for all Shinkansen models.

[Hobby Dreamer]

Hi ShinCSen,

That last image is amazing!  Space is such a probelm, which is why I will stick to trams with maybe a rail yard and some small interurban line perhaps on a viaduct. Its amazing how you start looking at ceilings and ways of suspending the layout.

 

The important thing is to have fun!

Rick

[ShinCanadaSen]

Ok... I have just realized how huge this layout will get with full 16 car Shinkansens and 20 Car freight consist !

This is mostly an intelectual persuit anyway so I'm going ahead with the full sized plan and will reduce it to 1/2 and 1/4 sizes to see what is possible.

 

So the Basic Plan is:

 

[smg id=910]

 

It will consist of a few "loops" these will be:

 

Shinkansen Track - The Shinkansen track will mostly be 414/381r "superelevated" double track to allow 2 Shinkansen to operate in opposite directions simultaneously.

 

Local Train Track - Local Train track will be a mix of double track and Single track, corner radii will be kept as large as possible.

 

Freight Track - Freight track will be mostly single track with some double track near the Large Freight Yard and some passing sidings.

 

The top of the layout will be a long thin rail corridor of 8-12 tracks (4 to 6 each way) with a little extra room for just a few senic addons. This will allow for a fairly long straight away to give some runing room between islands / sections if you go the long way around. Also along this corridor will be a switching matrix of double crossovers to allow the use of all track loops as a large single loop to allow for some fun running just one train.

 

I'm also planning on using a large number of Viaduct sections to allow the "loops" to Cross each other and to provide some extra elevation.

 

The islands / sections will house  a Large City Station, A Train Marshaling / Repair Yard, A Large Freight Yard, a Suburban Station, and a Rural Station with a Small Freight Yard.

 

I'm not sure if this set up will lend itself to being modular. Sectional seem more possible. Once I have some track plans designed, I can see how easily it can be carved up into sections / modules.

 

Once the design is complete, if I do get around to building it, I will complete it one "loop" at a time so that I can start running trains as soon as the first loops is down.

 

So now I need to do some research on Japanese freight Yards and Passenger stations :)

[KenS]

Something to consider is that most freight shares tracks with commuter/suburban trains.  There are some freight-only branches (typically non-electric and single-tracked, although there are likely exceptions to that generalization), as well as some passenger-only lines. The latter mostly the very heavily used city-center lines. So you could combine your freight and local loops, or combine them in parts of your diagram, and have them separate elsewhere.

 

But I like your idea of a long spine, with stations protruding from it.  If you've got the room, that seems like a good way to have both a multi-track corridor and smaller stations.

 

English-language info on Japanese freight is pretty scarce (and most of what exists is likely on the JNS Forum).  I've found YouTube videos to be useful since they show typical consists, and the locomotives used with them. Searching on JR貨物 (JR Freight) can turn up info.  Setting up your browser with one of the translation utilities (like Google Translate or their Tools) is helpful, even if what it renders is half-gibberish.

[ShinCanadaSen]

Thank you KenS, I hadn't thought of combining the Freight and Local loops. Making it a double loop like the Shinkansen loops is definitely something I'll explore. I Kinda like the Idea of them converging and diverging at different points.

 

Research time it is.. there is a whole lot I don't know about Japanese train operation.... Next step read all of the Prototype board as a start :)

[Hobby Dreamer]

Hi ShinCanadaSen

 

I was wondering whether you had cost out the track for your 614.jpg layout. Is that about $500, $1000, $2000 etc worth of track?

 

I'm planning on a tram layout only but I've been thinking about one of those Sonics (885) and am wondering how much track is required and also the cost. Your 614.jpg layout is pretty coo!

 

Rick

[ShinCanadaSen]

Unitrack Layout # 614 is from Kato's Collection of Layout Plans book (Kato Part # 25-012). I can't read Japanese but there is a price of 142,968 Yen at the end of the Parts list. That would be about US$ 1,600 or Cad$ 1,650. I'm not sure if that is the complete price of controlers and all or just track. There are a number of smaller / less complex layouts in the book as well. a good portion of them are also online in different places, Searching Kato Unitrack Layout should find them.

[Hobby Dreamer]

Thanks ShinCanadaSen!!!

 

I appreciate your post. That's not too bad a price considering the amount of track. That's an impressive configuration. Its funny how complicated Kato layouts can seem for unitrack and how boring the unitram layout is!!  Hopefully the tram track developers will have tea with the track boys!

 

Its too hot in the summer to fiddle with model trains but I'm so itchy for switches with either Kato or Tomix tram track!!!

 

Thanks