Microace Dr. Yellow - first run - squealing motor, now dead

[clem24]

I have both the original Microace Dr. Yellow releases (original and later version). They both squeal when they run. So I decided to rip one of them apart to see what was up. I took all the trucks apart, cleaned them up, and relubed them up. Tried again, still squealed. Applied power directly to the motor - well guess I found the source of the squeal; in the motor itself. I applied some lube (this is Labelle #102) to the outside bearings. I think it wasn't meant for that, cause when I tried it again, the motor now goes REALLY slowly even at full throttle. So I think I might have killed it with 102. Any ideas if this is fixable? Any clue where I might be able to get a new motor?

 

Just to kick me in the nuts while I am down, one of the plastic tabs that hold the truck against the metal frame decided to break off... Hopefully some model glue will hold it together, but I doubt it. Now I need a new motor AND a new bogie. :cry

[CaptOblivious]

Yeah, the #102 is gear lube…it's gummed up your motor. :( Bad luck! If you like Labelle, #108 is what you should be using for the motor brushes and bearings.

 

The plastic used for the truck is likely ABS: Make sure to get a cement specifically for ABS (your LHS should have that). Hopefully that will work.

[cteno4]

clem,

 

my dr yellow is currently in pieces to do the same cleaning on the trucks... it wasnt apparent how to get the truck assembly out of the chassis to me and i put it aside (like a month ago!) to do later when i was feeling less frustrated with it. i think the part that broke on you was what was stopping me to force it harder and i figured there might be some puzzle box trick to it coming apart easier than the usual pop to one side.

 

yes the 102 should only on on the truck gears if you want something more tacky. on the motor bearings you need to use very thin oils or they get gummed up.

 

the semi soft plastic of the trucks may not take with your glues well. if that happens you might check out the special super glue at micromark for derillin and other hard to glue plastics.

 

worst case on the motor if its really dead would be to try and ultrasonic bath on it in some cleaner (even water with some joy dish soap) followed by some quick runs with isopropanol. ive talked to some folks on other lists about cleaning out gummed up motors like this and they have had luck doing this even with ones with some corrosion in them. hey if the motor is shot cant loose. harbor freight has a small cheap ultrasonic cleaner.

 

unfortunately its pretty much impossible to get parts for microace stuff. only trick can be to get a japanese dealer to send it back in for repairs for you, that could take some doing. other option is to look at other motor chassis that could replicate the dead one close enough... keep us posted, i think im a few steps behind you on this train...

[clem24]

My next move is to give it a bath in isopropanol. It's not quite dead yet - it still turns over. I am worried about it rusting if I give it a bath in water and soap. Ultrasonic thing .. Hmm I think my dad actually might have one of those ultrasonic cleaning things. Worth a try I suppose! I really have nothing to lose. My alternative to repowering this guy is to "unpower" one of the power cars from my 2 car powered sets like the 200 series. I think that 12 car set can get by with only 1 power car. We'll see. For sure I am going to do as much with this motor as I can until it's truly dead.

 

As for taking apart the Doctor Yellow and getting at the trucks, here is the procedure (yes the whole thing has to be ripped apart to get at the trucks):

 

1.) Pull off the body shell

2.) Pull off the bottom cover of the chassis (the one with the underbody equipment)

3.) Pull off the top cover

4.) Now the tops of the trucks should be exposed. Grab a tiny slot screwdriver and pop off the retainer ring that is snapped onto the top of the truck.

 

Voila. That should expose the worm gear and the truck will fall right now. Do not attempt to pop off the truck from the bottom like you would with Kato or Tomix. It's almost impossible to reassemble it if you do it that way. I am not exactly sure how i broke one of the little tabs. I think it has to do with me trying to get the gears out. Once you have the truck out, you'll see that the gears are sealed inside the truck by a plastic cover. Except... Even after unclipping the snaps holding the cover, it's still held in place by the electrical pickups. To remove this cover you need to force the pickups apart.

 

It's a really terrible design. In fact, the whole chassis is just horribly designed.  Nothing like the thought that goes into Kato and Tomix chassis'. They don't even have direction markings on the body shell or chassis like Tomix does. So make sure you remember how the orientation goes.

[disturbman]

The other option is to hunt for a "junk" set on Yahoo Auction that you'll be able to canibalize. It's unfortunate we don't have access to the whole content and extent fo hobby shop from here. It's very common to find second hand sets sold car by car in Japanese hobby shops. There you'll have been able to localize one power car if this one doesn't recover.

[clem24]

Update. Some good news and bad news.

 

First the good news. I took the motor and gave it a bath in 99% isopropyl in the ultrasonic cleaner. Reassembled the train, and now it runs like a champ! The squealing is gone and everyone is happy.

 

Now for the bad news. I have a second Dr. Yellow set (I have both versions). It too exhibits the squealing issue. Anyway, as I opened up the set and was looking at it, I noticed the motor car's chassis bowed in towards the center. It was quite noticeable but didn't think much of it. As I was ripping it apart, some pieces of the die-cast chassis fell off! This is getting odd... After all the plastic is removed and only the chassis is showing, this happens:

 

 

Yup it's snapped in half. I have no idea what happened. It was already very weakened. This was a used set that I purchased in 2008 in Japan. I suppose the good news is that I can probably still reassemble it and the train should run fine because the plastic pieces should give it enough structural integrity to withstand running. The bad news.. How long will it last hehe.

 

Again, I think this is yet another design fault and/or likely the cheap Chinese-sourced metal that is being used. There must be some kind of defect in the metal or they skimped on the ingredients so it ends up being weaker than similar chassis by Tomix and Kato. It feels lighter and just seems so brittle. So anyway, I'll be putting it back together and we'll see what happens...

[clem24]

Update 2: Ok more bad news... As I was trying to put the thing back together, the frame by one of the bogies snapped off. I think it's done. It definitely will not go back together anymore. I theorize that this specific car must have been subjected to excessive moisture. I can see some evidence of moisture on the thin strip of plastic insulating material that goes on top of the motor. It actually looks more like the train was actually dropped in water and not properly dried out. Doesn't look like it came from simple humid environment. Now time to inspect my 5 other MA Shinkansen sets...

 

Well.. On the bright side, I've now got some spare MA parts. 

[CaptOblivious]

Oh, wow!

 

Question: how would submersion cause the metal to warp and become brittle?

[disturbman]

Whoa... very impressive! My condoleances...

[jappomania]

Update 2: Ok more bad news... As I was trying to put the thing back together, the frame by one of the bogies snapped off. I think it's done. It definitely will not go back together anymore. I theorize that this specific car must have been subjected to excessive moisture. I can see some evidence of moisture on the thin strip of plastic insulating material that goes on top of the motor. It actually looks more like the train was actually dropped in water and not properly dried out. Doesn't look like it came from simple humid environment. Now time to inspect my 5 other MA Shinkansen sets...

 

Well.. On the bright side, I've now got some spare MA parts. 

 

Hi Clem, Hi everyone!

sincerly what happen with first Microace Shinkansen release is "normal", the first batch is very badly engineered and molded with bad plastic (unstable after some years, lose elasticity and crystalize) and metal (sub-squared molding), I bought on Ebay UK the past year one 12 cars wooden box 0 Series with the same problems for a guy of my N scale association, he have rebuilt both motor chassis in brass (and now I hope he make for me the same work for the rest of my fleet but for now he ask me too much money), obviously the 2 original engines are now in the bin and with the new Mashima 5 pole engines run very well

Of course, this work is really hard, maybe you can try to kitbashing one Kato or Tomix 0 chassis for re-motorize your Dr.Yellow (or if you wanna sell the junk train...)

 

ciao

Massimo

[clem24]

Question: how would submersion cause the metal to warp and become brittle?

 

Expansion and contraction? The metal might have been porous?  I don't know. As this item came from China, you really have no idea what the heck they added into the metal mix to save costs.

 

 

Hi Clem, Hi everyone!

sincerly what happen with first Microace Shinkansen release is "normal", the first batch is very badly engineered and molded with bad plastic (unstable after some years, lose elasticity and crystalize) and metal (sub-squared molding), I bought on Ebay UK the past year one 12 cars wooden box 0 Series with the same problems for a guy of my N scale association, he have rebuilt both motor chassis in brass (and now I hope he make for me the same work for the rest of my fleet but for now he ask me too much money), obviously the 2 original engines are now in the bin and with the new Mashima 5 pole engines run very well

Of course, this work is really hard, maybe you can try to kitbashing one Kato or Tomix 0 chassis for re-motorize your Dr.Yellow (or if you wanna sell the junk train...)

 

Doh! I have the wooden box set as well. And the original 8+8 car 0 series. I wonder if they have the same issue. I guess according to your post, it's not "if", it's more "when". Well we'll see. I might just hang onto to it for spare parts since it's not exactly worth anything anymore.

 

Does anyone have Microace's email addy? They one their website lists it as support@microace-arii.co.jp but my email bounced. The funny thing is that it only shows up on Google search whereas the whole page looks funny. Also did anyone notice on the bottom it says "Copylight Microace 2000 / 2010", but when you mouse over it, it changes to the correct spelling?? What is up with that?? 

[disturbman]

Does anyone have Microace's email addy? They one their website lists it as support@microace-arii.co.jp but my email bounced. The funny thing is that it only shows up on Google search whereas the whole page looks funny.

 

Maybe it looks all funny bcecause this page is just an archive or because you don't have the japanese front enabled. Anyway, you might want to fax them. They say it them selves: "How to contact us - Please feel free to contact us via FAX, (81)-48-445-3407."

 

Also did anyone notice on the bottom it says "Copylight Microace 2000 / 2010", but when you mouse over it, it changes to the correct spelling?? What is up with that??  

 

Mine doesn't change so it's maybe your browser. Anyway this is the perfect display of normal English skills by Japanese. (^^)

[cteno4]

Ouch! ill be very gentle with my Dr yellow and see if i can resurrect him w.o snapping him up!

 

Microace does not do any direct customer support really, no parts or returns. ive heard from several dealers that all ma returns have to go through the dealer that you purchased from. for older stuff like this i dont know what their warrentee time limit is and if you bought it second hand then i think you are SOL. even if you do get it to a dealer to get back you have a bit of post on both ends as well. im thinking looking at other chassis that may fit may be best.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[rankodd]

Hmm. After reading this, any inclination I ever had to buy a Microace train has disappeared. :)

[disturbman]

Hmm. After reading this, any inclination I ever had to buy a Microace train has disappeared. :)

 

Good, that will make more for us that are not bothered by some marginal problems. (^^)

[cteno4]

well every manufacturer has a few issues now and then. for the most part i have not found MA, Kato or tomix to be much different in the amount problems i have had. Service for kato and tomix is pretty hard to get as well, but the big thing is you can at least get some of the parts pretty easily, whereas MA does no spare parts.

 

Since MA makes a lot of very unique trains you will be really limiting yourself to the more main stream stuff that Kato and Tomix do! Might be different if we were talking a big problem with tomix or kato where they over lap a lot in the trains they model. I would never give up my MA trains even if they had a few more problems and i needed to re-motorize them as they are some of my most prized trains and i doubt if kato or Tomix will ever do them.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[clem24]

Massimo do you have a picture of the brass chassis by chance? This might be worth looking into it. The thing that makes this project somewhat easier is the fact that the Microace chassis uses the plastic covers (for the couplers, for the fit onto the body shell) and the fact that the bogies are held in place differently (i.e. squeezed into place by the ring and those little tabs on the bogies themselves) *and* that the bogies are centered by use of the blue interior plastic piece, so precision might be such a big factor.This is definitely something that I would look into doing myself. Actually sounds like a good challenge.

[Welshbloke]

That looks and sounds like metal fatigue to me. If there are impurities in the metal used to cast the chassis then it can distort or expand and become brittle.

 

This was (historically) a problem with pre-war Hornby Dublo models and has since been noticed with some modern Marklin and the odd Hornby model. The only cure is new parts from a different batch.

 

The moisture could be oil - some oils will attack some plastics.

[harukablue]

I know some of the recent uk class 47 models by Heljan have also had this same problem, the metal expands and basically cracks the body and goes brittle.

 

Lew

[Welshbloke]

Yep, that's the same problem. The Hornby models affected (that I am aware of) were some of their Class 31 diesels. The last I heard was that Hornby were asking people to contact them if they'd had problems and give details of how the model had been stored, when it had been purchased, etc. Given their usual standards of customer service I wouldn't be put off - they will most likely offer replacement models or replacement mainframes and bodies to those affected, thereby solving the problem.

 

Marklin on the other hand didn't seem terribly interested and once again appeared to be relying on their legions of fanboys to silence the critics. Which is why I won't spend the ridiculous sums they demand for their new locos. The '70s and '80s models don't have electronics that fail if the wind changes...

 

The Marklin world calls it "Zinkpest" which is possibly a more accurate term than metal fatigue as it can happen to parts which have sat in a box for ages without being flexed. I suspect a Chinese factory or three attempting to cut corners by throwing cheap rubbish in the melt pot rather than good quality raw materials.

 

Could you use the chassis from one of the Tomix motorised add-on Shinkansen cars? I have one of these for my JR 500 and it seems identical to the power car in the basic three car set, with plenty of power available. If the bogie wheelbases and centres are correct then it might be a solution.

 

Hmm. After reading this, any inclination I ever had to buy a Microace train has disappeared. :)

 

Good, that will make more for us that are not bothered by some marginal problems. (^^)

 

Hardly a "marginal problem". The model has fallen apart due to poor quality materials!

[disturbman]

Hardly a "marginal problem". The model has fallen apart due to poor quality materials!

 

I was speaking about the number of MA sets concerned by this production problem. I don't think there is plenty of them.

[jappomania]

Massimo do you have a picture of the brass chassis by chance? This might be worth looking into it. The thing that makes this project somewhat easier is the fact that the Microace chassis uses the plastic covers (for the couplers, for the fit onto the body shell) and the fact that the bogies are held in place differently (i.e. squeezed into place by the ring and those little tabs on the bogies themselves) *and* that the bogies are centered by use of the blue interior plastic piece, so precision might be such a big factor.This is definitely something that I would look into doing myself. Actually sounds like a good challenge.

 

Sorry, not immediatelly, I try to phone to the guy and I hope he send me some photos (and maybe a technical drawing with measure)

I try to ask if he can produce a little quantity of trans-kit at low cost (I don't forget that a new DR.Yellow is around 13-15000JPY and is still available in many shop)

I let you know, in the meantime don't sell or destroy your DR.Yellow 

(It's strange, Dr.Yellow need italian Dr. to ride again......)

 

ciao

Massimo

[jappomania]

Hardly a "marginal problem". The model has fallen apart due to poor quality materials!

 

I was speaking about the number of MA sets concerned by this production problem. I don't think there is plenty of them.

 

potentially yes for the old production because is a mold/die problem (if you have one old Shinkansen and new one you can compare it, different material, sprue position, subsquare extractor removed)

Sorry I don't translate all the technical terms

Of course, not only MA production sometime have problem, Tomix and Kato too (yellowed nose and coupler, double orange TGV, E1 coupler, 200 green band etc...)

I hope you understand my English

 

ciao

Massimo

 

 

ciao

Massimo

[clem24]

Massimo,

 

Your English is fine! Those items you mentioned are generally superficial problems, not major catastrophic problems like the motor car chassis falling apart LOL.

 

And just to add insult to injury, when I putting the first model back together and pushing in the pin the holds the gear to the bogie, it slipped and the pin penetrated the part between my thumb and thumbnail. Anyway, it was pretty minor at the time so I let it be. Fast forward to Saturday, and my thumb was starting to hurt. By Sunday, it started to get extremely swollen and very infected. I ended up going to emerge to get antibiotics upon advice from my doctor friends. It's still in quite a bit of pain right now and I can barely move my thumb. Also doesn't look very pleasant either. Hehe. Maybe there really was lots of toxic mold in them MA Shinkansen. Beware!

[rankodd]

Hmm. After reading this, any inclination I ever had to buy a Microace train has disappeared. :)

 

Good, that will make more for us that are not bothered by some marginal problems. (^^)

 

I was referring more to a complete lack of customer service and available parts. Mind you, spontaneous disintegration is a definite cause for hesitation as well...