TV as a computer monitor?

[Hobby Dreamer]

Hi Guys, I am going to get a new PC and new monitor as well.  I have the PC more or less figured out (except case) but a friend suggested getting a large TV and hang that on the wall. A novel idea. There are a lot of people asking the same question on the internet but not a lot of people with happy answers.

 

The technology in TVs and monitors is converging and the TV suggested has a fast response rate, but can a TV comfortably replace a monitor? I did read somewhere that you may be stuck in the native resolution of the TV and any changes will add a lag to the response time.

 

Anybody here use a TV as a monitor or switch between TV and monitor use with their TV?

 

Any ideas?

 

Thanks

Rick

[KenS]

The technology in TVs and monitors is converging and the TV suggested has a fast response rate, but can a TV comfortably replace a monitor? I did read somewhere that you may be stuck in the native resolution of the TV and any changes will add a lag to the response time.

 

Much depends on what you want to use the computer for.  For watching video (home theater PC) it makes perfect sense, although there are still potential problem areas; as a word processor it's probably going to be pretty poor.

 

The big problems to watch out for (based on my reading and experience with monitors; I haven't actually tried a TV):

 

- The TV's native resolution (number of pixels horizontal and vertical) will likely be less than a typical flat-panel monitor (and you really need to use the native resolution for the picture to look good), which means less room / smaller windows in which to work.  A 1080p TV (1920x1080) is very good, a monitor with 1280x1024 is kinda lame.

- Computers typically use DVI output (both -A and -D), TVs typically have HDMI inputs (there are graphics cards with HDMI and TVs that do DVI, but you need to be sure).  HDMI is really just DVI-D plus extra wires for sound in a different connector, so you can buy adapter cables (no sound though, and no support for DVI-A analog output).

- Depending on your location and TV, you may run afoul of the copy-protection; many TVs want a trusted digital link, and won't accept most graphics cards, or won't accept them with certain signals (like protected video in a window) on the monitor. Everything can plug together and still refuse to work, or can work until you open the wrong window, then go black.

 

Research carefully before buying.

[Hobby Dreamer]

Thanks a lot Ken!

 

Your last point is one few would consider...  I spent a bit of time on the net and maybe got unlucky with hits where no one said anything as clear as your response. I was looking at a 27" Dell monitor that gets great reviews but at its price one can get a 40" TV as a friend pointed out. I never thought about TVs because up to now I still use a CRT that has amazing resolution and features but is feeling small for many uses and it may be time to get a widescreen just for the videos.. 

 

The first thing I will do is look at TVs and monitors to get a feel for their size  and then ask questions because the guys that work at these shops might have ideas..

 

Thanks again!

[David]

Remember that there is a reason for the price difference. TV panels, despite now based on the same LCD technology, are meant to be viewed from quite a distance compared to computer monitors. A computer monitor puts a lot more importance on having clear individual pixels (to make fonts like what you're reading now legible) - by comparison most TV LCDs are oversaturated with brightness in order to provide a better picture from a distance, making many fonts smaller then 16 point too small and blurry to see, to say nothing of the strain on your eyes. Game consoles and set top boxes (like Windows Media Center or Apple TV) intentionally use simplified big font interfaces. You should check out any TV in person to see if you could actually stand close enough to read web text without going blind.

[clem24]

Remember that there is a reason for the price difference. TV panels, despite now based on the same LCD technology, are meant to be viewed from quite a distance compared to computer monitors. A computer monitor puts a lot more importance on having clear individual pixels (to make fonts like what you're reading now legible) - by comparison most TV LCDs are oversaturated with brightness in order to provide a better picture from a distance, making many fonts smaller then 16 point too small and blurry to see, to say nothing of the strain on your eyes. Game consoles and set top boxes (like Windows Media Center or Apple TV) intentionally use simplified big font interfaces. You should check out any TV in person to see if you could actually stand close enough to read web text without going blind.

 

Generally not true.

 

1.) TVs use panels nowadays with individual pixels exactly like a computer monitor. Text on a TV will be just as crisp as text on a computer monitor with one caveat: "sometimes" it might be difficult to setup a TV to sync to a computer perfectly. This was more common in older sets but less common in new sets. For example, my dad's 40" 1080p Sony has issues trying to display a 1080p signal in full screen. But my computer syncs with my newer Sony just fine. Text looks just as great on my 52" Sony 1080p as it does on my Dell 30".

 

2.) Most LCD TVs are oversaturated with brightness not to provide a better picture from a distance, but to SELL the TV in store. 95% of the time, it is only setup too bright. One can usually easily fix this with settings. Most home users have brightness (black level) and contrast (white level) setup way too high. Almost immediately when setting up a TV, my contrast is at around 50, brightness almost nil, and back light is 0.

 

3.) Font size will be determined by your DESKTOP resolution (and of course Windows settings). The higher the resolution, the smaller the default fonts will be. So on a 22" screen, a screen with native res of 1680x1050 will have bigger fonts than a 22" with 1920x1080 pixels. And of course, this is magnified by screen size. Small fonts will NOT be blurry on a TV. It will be perfectly crisp.

 

There are other things to consider as well:

 

Panel types - almost all inexpensive computer panels are TN panels (twisted nematic). I won't go into details but you can easily tell a screen is TN by looking at the screen from an angle other than straight on. The colors will go all funny. Most notable when seen from below. Their specs will also say 160 degree vertical and horizontal view angles. I personally hate TN because it's almost impossible to get it to display accurate colors. Most people don't notice this, so if you're one of them, then don't do any further research. The best panels are IPS panels. Ironically, most LCD TVs use IPS panels (some PVA) because of their superior color reproduction and view angles. Dell Ultrasharp monitors are almost all either IPS or PVA (such as the Dell 27" you were eyeing).

 

Some of the pros and cons of TV vs. computer monitor:

 

- TV monitors are typically cheaper than a 'good' equivalently sized computer monitor while offering only marginally less resolution though the gap is closing

- Computer monitors offering more resolution as soon as you move up to 30". More resolution = more desktop space but smaller fonts. My 30" has a resolution of 2560x1600, which no LCD TV can touch. The extra desktop means I can view more of a web page, have more stuff open at once, etc.. The easiest way to see how big of a difference it makes: open an Excel spreadsheet and see how many (more) cells you can see with high res monitors!

- This is the MAIN one of computer monitor vs. TV: ergonomics. A computer monitor has a stand that is capable of swivel, tilt, and cases of big screens, height. These are huge. For this reason alone, I will never use a TV as a monitor. Having my monitor hung on the wall would be an ergonomic nightmare, and especially if you don't get the height correct, your neck will pay dearly.

 

Most (like 95%) of wall mounted TVs are absolute ergonomic nightmares. They are mounted very very very high on the wall, airport and pub style. This is great for allowing lots of people to see the screen, but in a home, it is the worst idea I've ever. Your eyes should fall close to the top of the screen in your preferred seating location.

 

Anyways, I would vote computer monitor, hands down.

[Mudkip Orange]

I actually use my TV as a stereo, since my phat Kenwood amp is still chilling at my parents' house. The built-in-speakers are pretty decent, and I have it set up so you can route the computer audio and the DVR audio at the same time. Springer is more interesting when mixed with Zeppelin.

 

So yeah, I'm all for technological mix and match. And some of the smaller flatscreens (30", 36") are LCD, which is fundamentally identical to your 17" or 20" computer monitor to begin with.

[Hobby Dreamer]

Thanks a lot guys and especially clem24 !

 

I've turned into a Luddite the past decade and in recent years there is so much selection and confusion through misinformation. I never really considered a TV as a monitor but when my friend suggested it, it made me realize that I didn't really know the difference between the 2. (Still using a CRT that seems smaller everyday!)

 

There is one Samsung TV that is being sold as a monitor (and gets good reviews) so I will use that as a reference but the 27" Dell would fit nice on my desk. The reason for hesitancy as clem24  knows is that the Dell is more than $1000 (ouch); but I am of the view that quality often justifies itself with longevity.

 

Thanks again

Rick

[cteno4]

Rick,

 

its all about the resolution. my apple 30" computer monitor has 2560x1600 pixels with a 30" diagonal. a 1080p 42" monitor has 1920x1080 pix spread across 42", so you can see on the computer monitor you get a lot more pixels in a smaller area, thus you can resolve smaller point sized fonts. so most larger tv monitors spread the picture out larger than smaller computer monitors, therefore you cant have smaller font sizes as readable as they would be on a standard computer monitors (if you have them the same size on both monitors) as they are made up by fewer pixels at the same physical size.

 

best to use a computer monitor as it will be the most readable and easiest to use. it is true they are converging, but the HD 1080p standard will sort of fix them at the 1920x1080 resolutions for a while here. there are higher HD formats in the tubes but its going to be a while before we move off from 1080p (the high one right now). there are smaller like 24-27" tv lcds that now are doing 1080p and that puts you about same resolution as a standard computer monitor.

 

many of the 24-27" size range computer monitors now have hdmi inputs and some of the tv monitors have dvi inputs as well. this is where the real crossover is happening as the resolution is about the same at these sizes. also most computer monitors are able to now switch between several inputs as well (like a couple of dvis, an hdmi, and vga).

 

i agree with others here that if you get a good computer monitor in the 24-27" range you will probably get hdmi input that you can use a digital box to pump tv/cable into it (or a dvd player with hdmi out) and get great tv quality. if you go for the tv wtih a dvi in it might give you decent computer sharpness, but may not as they are not built quite as high a quality and contrast abilities as most computer monitors and thus make the computer reading a bit harder. one option is to check you your local electronic stores and see if they have any of their 24-27" 1080p monitors hooked up to a computer to see how well it performs.

 

i always tell folks to buy the biggest and nicest computer monitor they can as its the only thing that actually improves your performance these days as computers are so fast now getting the bleeding edge one, for most everyone (not the animators), will not get any benefit or personal performance enhancement. but if you can see the screen clearly and see more stuff and not be constantly scrolling around it will speed your work up.

 

cheers,

 

jeff

[Hobby Dreamer]

i always tell folks to buy the biggest and nicest computer monitor they can as its the only thing that actually improves your performance these days as computers are so fast now getting the bleeding edge one, for most everyone (not the animators), will not get any benefit or personal performance enhancement.

 

Thanks Jeff..

 

Someone once said " buy twice as good, buy 1/2 as many"; which is what I live by. I thought I had monitor selection all wrapped up until a friend suggested the TV option and that got me thinking (very dangerous).

 

I was looking at a good Dell with IPS panel but reviews seem to be mixed w.r.t. gaming as the response rate is a bit high. (OK, i'm an old geezer but still have unfinished business with some games). I think I can live with a bit of lag (or get a second monitor for gaming) .

 

Thanks again guys!