New Type: JR West Series 225

[miyakoji]

Several days ago I found the below pic out on Ompuchaneru Railway Bulletin board http://rail-uploader.khz-net.com/ (outstanding site if you're not already aware of it).  The specific thread is http://rail-uploader.khz-net.com/index.php?id=865545, all credit to original contributor.

 

 

This is JRW's new 225 series at the Kinki Sharyo factory near Tokuan Station, west of Kyobashi on the Katamachi Line.  That end car is KuMoHa 225-1.  Although I spent a lot of time on 223s on shinkaisoku service, I'm definitely looking forward to seeing these completed along with some writeups in Railfan and Railway Journal!

[bikkuri bahn]

Thanks miyakoji.  Interesting pictures. It seems these units are destined for shinkaisoku service, as you say, on the Tokaido and Sanyo Main Lines.  I see that the cab ends are a flat compared with the sloping versions on previous shinkaisoku types.  Apparently these units are designed with revised crush zones on the front, allowing a bigger safety space in case of grade crossing accidents.

 

JR West pdf, check out pages 16 and 17:

http://www.westjr.co.jp/ICSFiles/afieldfile/2010/01/25/1_20100125_anzen.pdf

 

Bulletin board posters note base 3 car formations, all axles motored.  That's big get-up-and-go!

[Mudkip Orange]

http://rail-uploader.khz-net.com/ (outstanding site if you're not already aware of it).

 

They banned me :(

[ToniBabelony]

http://rail-uploader.khz-net.com/ (outstanding site if you're not already aware of it).

 

Ah, thanks! I've been looking all over the place for this board as they suddenly disappeared from the link I had in my bookmarks

 

Also, the 225 Series... Ugly ugly ugly. Looks like an E257 with the wrong livery.

[miyakoji]

 

Bulletin board posters note base 3 car formations, all axles motored.  That's big get-up-and-go!

 

Yeah, there are a few posts in there comparing the base formations of these 225s vs the existing 223s.  But, isn't acceleration standardized?  Don't most of them accelerate at 2.5km/s/s?  I often saw KiHa187s leave Okayama Station, and I thought they took off pretty quickly, but in fact I think they have a standard rate of acceleration.  I wonder what the advantage or goal is here...

 

 

They banned me :(

 

 

 

:laughing3: Dare I ask why?  I almost never post there, just check out the pics and read some of the thread if it's interesting.

 

 

 

Ah, thanks! I've been looking all over the place for this board as they suddenly disappeared from the link I had in my bookmarks

 

Also, the 225 Series... Ugly ugly ugly. Looks like an E257 with the wrong livery.

 

 

Yeah, they changed their URL on January 1st I think, I couldn't find it for several days.

 

I kind of agree on this new model, and as BB said, the 223 has a more featureful appearance, this thing is just flat.  One thing in defense of a new design, however, is that JRW has hundreds and hundreds of 223s, plus more recent lookalikes like the 521 and KiHa127.  Something different will be nice.

[Mudkip Orange]

They banned me :(

 

:laughing3: Dare I ask why?  I almost never post there, just check out the pics and read some of the thread if it's interesting.

 

 

Apparently they don't take kindly to people posting random pictures of black women in booty shorts. I got handed a full IP ban at the server level; I can't even look at the site now.

[miyakoji]

Apparently they don't take kindly to people posting random pictures of black women in booty shorts. I got handed a full IP ban at the server level; I can't even look at the site now.

Strange.

[Guest ___]

Apparently they don't take kindly to people posting random pictures of black women in booty shorts. I got handed a full IP ban at the server level; I can't even look at the site now.

Strange.

 

Miyakoji, Never give him an opening. 

[bikkuri bahn]

Some "spy" shots, giving a few more views of this trainset.

 

view from Tokuan Station, departing 321 series and 207 series, then a zoom shot into the Kinki Sharyo sidings:

 

 

Close up views of the cab front:

 

 

Part 2:

 

 

view from a nearby high rise, note the JR East E259 ready to be delivered:

 

[miyakoji]

Great find BB, thanks.  I was not subscribed to his feed on youtube.  His username doesn't look at all familiar, actually.

 

So, that's the 225 then.  As was written above, it does look a lot like a JRE E257.  I like that design, but I'd prefer to see JRW do something more unique to kind of establish their own image, or something.  Plus, at the moment I've gotta say that the 223 was more stylish in general.  I'd also like to see all JR Group companies do something other than stainless steel bodies with adhesive stripes for their non-express trains, but that will probably never happen (another reason that I'm sad to see the 113/5s being phased out).

[Guest ___]

http://www.japantoday.com/category/national/view/jr-west-unveils-train-with-improved-safety-mechanics

[bikkuri bahn]

Thanks for the link Shashinka.  Too bad it comes from Japan Today (yuck!)

 

Here is another article (Japanese language, with more pictures):

 

http://sankei.jp.msn.com/economy/business/100517/biz1005171126005-n1.htm

 

close up pictures of interior cab framing:

 

http://www.nikkei.com/news/image-article/dc=1;g=96958A9C93819695E3E5E2E2828DE3E5E2E7E0E2E3E29191E2E2E2E2;bf=0;ad=DSXBZO0755709017052010000002;R_FLG=0;z=20100517

 

http://osaka.yomiuri.co.jp/zoom/20100517-OYO9I00730.htm

[miyakoji]

Thanks for the links guys.  Based on those angles, I'd say my only gripe is that it's more of a 223.5 series than anything new or a ripoff of the E257.

 

http://www.japantoday.com/category/national/view/jr-west-unveils-train-with-improved-safety-mechanics

Some of the more interesting comments I've seen on japantoday, particularly the one about bullying, which must refer to the nikkin kyoiku punishment system.  If memory serves, the train in the Amagasaki derailment was a whopping 90 seconds late, but because the motorman was worried about another reprimand, he tried to make up some time.  Too bad.  I'll start a thread about this tomorrow (or some time after I've had some sleep, heh).

 

On topic, I believe JRE's 209s that they're just now starting to scrap were intentionally built cheaper as well as intended to be scrapped at a certain point as opposed to refurbished (ah yeah, it's on the wikipedia page).  I haven't read any such thing about these 225s.  Does anyone know what the lifespan is for these or other rolling stock not intended to be junked after 15 years?

[bikkuri bahn]

On topic, I believe JRE's 209s that they're just now starting to scrap were intentionally built cheaper as well as intended to be scrapped at a certain point as opposed to refurbished (ah yeah, it's on the wikipedia page).  I haven't read any such thing about these 225s.  Does anyone know what the lifespan is for these or other rolling stock not intended to be junked after 15 years?

 

I don't know the intended lifespan of new JR West rolling stock, but perhaps a hint can be derived from the apparent differences in rolling stock policy between JR East and JR West.  As you mentioned, JR East 209 series and many later series (I presume alot of the E series) were built according to the philosophy of "half the energy consumption, half the cost, and half the lifespan".  This way, JR East could rapidly and widely upgrade their lines (both urban and rural) with new rolling stock and replace aging JNR types.  On the other hand, JR West's policy has been to upgrade their rolling stock with new types only on the busiest lines, especially those locked in hard competition with Kansai's private railways.  Other lines make do with older or refurbished rolling stock.  Naturally, those lines who are competing for passengers with the private railways will be getting high quality, high performance rolling stock.

 

If you take a look around the interiors of the JR East E series rolling stock, you can see visual evidence of the corporate policy- visible seams, modular construction, exposed screws, fasteners, etc.- not unpleasant by any means, but obviously done to allow quick disassembly/dismantling for recycling or scrap (or possible mid-life upgrades?).  On the other hand, (and this is purely subjective and personal opinion) newer JR West rolling stock seems a bit more solidly built to me, and the seating is way more comfortable.  Completely personal taste, but I prefer JR West exterior designs too.

[KenS]

If you take a look around the interiors of the JR East E series rolling stock, you can see visual evidence of the corporate policy- visible seams, modular construction, exposed screws, fasteners, etc.- not unpleasant by any means, but obviously done to allow quick disassembly/dismantling for recycling or scrap (or possible mid-life upgrades?). 

 

I don't know much about JR West, but all of the references I've seen to the "half the life" design philosophy were regarding the JR East designs, like the E231.  However, some other lines have used some JR East designs (according to Wikipedia, JR Central uses the E231, and two private railroad use variants of the E233), and many of these trains are manufactured and partially designed by companies (like Hitachi) that could potentially manufacture the same designs, or variants, to other railroads.

 

Hitachi's "A-train" modular design is a good example. I don't know that it was built to the "half the cost, half the life" philosophy (they mention refits as a reson for the modularity), but it shares many of the caracteristics of the trains that were. JRE uses it for the E257 Series, and numerous other lines also use the design, although not JR West.

 

One of the reasons the iconic 103 series lasted so long is that it uses a heavy steel construction. That has a cost in maintenance (painting), track wear, and power to operate it.  The new design philosophy focused on lightweight aluminum or stainless steel to reduce those costs, but that's also going to result in a design that has more flex to it, and flexing causes metal structures to wear out (that's not the only thing they economized, but it's a big part).

 

And everyone is using lightweight aluminum or stainless steel designs now. Shorter lifespans for trains in heavy daily use are fairly likely.

[bikkuri bahn]

Today the first 225 series trainset was taken out on a test run between Tokuan and Aboshi.  Formation was 2 kumoha motor driving units and six moha motor units.  As mentioned before, all axles motored.  I wonder what the km/h/s figures for this unit will be.

 

http://railf.jp/news/2010/05/18/182000.html

 

http://rail.hobidas.com/rmn/archives/0400/

 

NHK video of the unveiling of this type:

 

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/20100517/t10014484921000.html

[bikkuri bahn]

Private video recently posted:

 

Departing Osaka Station:

 

Pausing at Karasaki Station:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYcmspqCZ_4

 

Windy conditions in the Hyogo Station area:

 

A news report from yesterday:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2kdjeRbp2Q

[miyakoji]

Thanks for the links BB.  It might be both an upside and downside that this thing is so much like a 223.  I guess I won't really know until I get to ride one, which won't be any time soon.  I remember thinking how quiet the 321s were when they came out, they seemed as quiet as some expresses I'd been on, I wonder how these will be.

 

Mr. Makihara, the JR West guy in those videos--I wonder if his job is interesting.  Head of the rolling stock department, apparently.  Probably involves a hell of a lot of karaoke and enkais.

 

Kind of surprises me, but pics of this thing have been almost totally absent on the Onpuchaneru board, meanwhile youtube contributors in Kansai have been on the job as soon as Kinki Sharyo moved the thing outside!  Ah, checking that board now, I see there's one 225 thread.  A few unsurprising comparisons to the E257, and a side-by-side shot with a 223, which is now my wallpaper.

[miyakoji]

Poor JR West, doesn't look like they're off to a good start with this one:

 

ＪＲ新車両から部品落下 (Part falls off new JR rolling stock)

http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20100519-00000084-san-soci

 

I'm not sure this is such a big deal really, that's what the testing is for.  However, with the memory of the Amagasaki derailment in the public's minds, I suspect some JRW and Kinki Sharyo employees are going to be spending some time explaining this one.

 

In other bad JRW news:

ブレーキレバー折れ運転取りやめ　ＪＲ西日本 (Brake lever snaps, operation suspended)

http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20100519-00000600-san-soci

Long story short: a west bound rapid lost its brake lever and the service was terminated at Shinohara Station in Omi-Hachiman, Shiga Prefecture.  First such incident amongst all 1100 of JRW's 221 and 223 series cars.  I wonder how long that motorman will be pulling weeds in the yard.

[Guest ___]

 

And everyone is using lightweight aluminum or stainless steel designs now. Shorter lifespans for trains in heavy daily use are fairly likely.

 

 

I'd like to note they had a similar theory about the 1000-series Rohr cars here in DC on Metro. The expected lifespan was to be 20 years at which point the cars were to be scrapped. During the tear down and mid-life refurb that came ten years too late due to cash issues, Metro's engineers found that the aluminum frames were in such good shape that the rolling stock could remain in service another 20 years. The end result, a car with a service life by design of 20 years will have nearly forty plus years of service upon retirement. So, Aluminum lightweight cars are buy no mean represent a life cycle.

[disturbman]

Windy conditions in the Hyogo Station area:

 

If this was shot the same day it was posted I was near the tracks between Kobe and the station after Hyogo almost all the afternoon. I might have seen this train without even noticing it. And I clearly remember seeing a 321 local unit being slowly overtake by what I thought was a 223 on those tracks.

[KenS]

And everyone is using lightweight aluminum or stainless steel designs now. Shorter lifespans for trains in heavy daily use are fairly likely.

The end result, a car with a service life by design of 20 years will have nearly forty plus years of service upon retirement. So, Aluminum lightweight cars are buy no mean represent a life cycle.

 

Good point. "Lightweight" is relative, and if the designers are conservative a train could be lighter than one of heavy-duty steel construction, without limiting the equipment's lifespan. Aluminium (and stainless steel) have the additional benefit that they're less prone to corrosion (rust) than ordinary steel.

[scott]

In other bad JRW news:

ブレーキレバー折れ運転取りやめ　ＪＲ西日本 (Brake lever snaps, operation suspended)

 

Autotranslation said that 150 people were injured--is that right?

[miyakoji]

In other bad JRW news:

ブレーキレバー折れ運転取りやめ　ＪＲ西日本 (Brake lever snaps, operation suspended)

 

Autotranslation said that 150 people were injured--is that right?

It was my translation.  Google said "brake lever bends, driving pull quit"

[scott]

No, I meant that's what it said when I ran the original article through translate.google.com