Do all Unitram layouts look the same?

[Concept Model Trains]

It seems that all the photos and videos of Unitram layouts tend to look the same (including mine).  They all use the same buildings from Tomytec and KATO. Even the cars from tend to be the same on each layout and are usually from Tomytec. Maybe the basic Unitram layout (V50) is too limiting and does allow us room to make it different. Maybe we need the rest of Unitram system from Kato to get some unique layouts. We might need to think more imaginatively about the way we add our buildings and scenery. What do you think? I’ve included some pictures of my Unitram layout so you can compare.

[Claude_Dreyfus]

I would say the answer here is probably yes...for a very good reason.

 

As with T gauge, the Unitram is a new product and there are limited layouts available. In many cases the first models in any scale, country or subject tend to be very similar as people are trying out the concept and seeing if it works with the very limited tried and tested examples. Many will use the Unitram track and scenic boards as a starter, although there will be those that immediately branch out. As the number of modellers using the Unitram increase so will the variations and within a year or two you may well see many more around.

 

You can expand this to Japanese modelling in general, especially in the UK, where many layouts are still a case of a Bullet here and a pagoda there...with lots of unitrack thrown in. We have seen a good number of decent variety on this forum, which is indicative of a healthy outlook for Japanese modelling, there are a few layouts that are trying to break from the accepted 'norm' of what a Japanese layout should be...

 

The general problem for Japanese layouts is also the same for Unitram. The ready-to-run stuff is of exepctional quality, so why bother scratch-building stuff when you won't really be able to improve upon what is already out there?

 

That said, there were many European layouts, especially German, that fall into the same category for UK modellers. Plenty of good quality kits do spoil a modeller!

[bill937ca]

Yes, unless you do a layout with no buildings and all parking lots.  We'll see how committed Kato is to Unitram. Conventional railway stock has an axle to hold the wheels in place, but low floor LRVs do not have full width axles and each wheel has to individually thread the point and curves in switch.  The prototype has issues with switches, especially on heritage systems and I suspect the model will too. Most 100% low floor LRVs run on completely new systems with infrastructure designed solely for the rolling stock in use.  European light rail engineering standards are much more exact than North American engineering standards. which are almost casual by comparison. What Kato is trying to do is run models with independent axles on track designed for models with rigid axles where one wheel guides the other wheel through the switch.

 

Many North American railfans have a mind set that regards trams (trolleys as they call them) as second class rolling stock only suitable for toy like loops and back and forth shuttles. Its not real model railroading in their view.  To me Kato is much too close to this view of the model railroad hobby.  I fear that Unitram may become an expensive orphan just suited for round and round loops around Kato elevated stations particularly if Kato has any difficulty in developing switches compatible with independent wheel low floor trams.

[Concept Model Trains]

The Unitram may be a product that never grows past the original basic set.  Undoubtedly the basic set is a lot of fun to use.  Ideal for a little layout that I can run on a card table in the corner of the room. I think that most people will need a substantial layout to keep them satisfied.

 

The Kato Portrams run very smoothly on the Unitrack.  Unfortunately I find that my Modemo trams don't seem to run well on the track.  Maybe Kato built it with their only their products in mind. I am looking forward to the Tomix tram track.  I think that it will suit my Modemo trams.

[IST]

It seems that all the photos and videos of Unitram layouts tend to look the same (including mine). 

 

No, no, your one looks different then mine. 

 

They all use the same buildings from Tomytec and KATO. Even the cars from tend to be the same on each layout and are usually from Tomytec. Maybe the basic Unitram layout (V50) is too limiting and does allow us room to make it different. Maybe we need the rest of Unitram system from Kato to get some unique layouts. We might need to think more imaginatively about the way we add our buildings and scenery. What do you think? I’ve included some pictures of my Unitram layout so you can compare.

 

I think the already released Unitram sets are good for get people interested in this hobby or for the experienced modellers to thinking about something new. We should give time for Kato to see the result (for example financial) and decide about the next step. I read somewhere that the planning and producing of Unitram system took some years, so I do not think that Kato will stop here. At least it will release the further 4 Portram and maybe the 3 Centram also.

The currently available items is not enough to give the possibility of huge tram networks, but good enough to start playing and thinking about it.

I have just finished my Unitram layout (without cars, peoples and trees), 3 month after I bought the start set and maybe 4-5 month after that Unitram is available. I would be in a financial trouble if Kato would release new tracks and base sets as the start set with the buildings was not cheap, or at least not for me. So I am happy to wait some month for the forthcoming items of Unitram.

[to2leo]

Also keep in mind that they are releasing German LRV via Hobbytrain soon.  I think Kato is trying to capture the n scale LRV/streetcar market.

[KenS]

Even by ready-to-run standards the Unitram system is very limited, so it's not surprising that there is a tendency for layouts built with it to look very similar. I think that's partly a function of how new it is, and over time we'll hopefully have more variety, although Kato does have a tendency to aim for a smaller number of high-quality elements than other manufacturers (compare the variety of unitrack elements to finetrack).

 

But asking the question seems to imply that looking the same is a problem. We all want to show our individual creativity in things we make, like model railroads. But an experienced modeler who really cares about that isn't likely to use as simple a system as Unitram presently is (I know someone will prove that generality wrong). The strength of unitram, like unitrack, is that its an easy entry for a new modeler.

 

Model railroading, of any form, can be an intimidating activity. There are many different skills to learn, on top of simply learning about whatever railroad, tram line, or type of activity you want your model to reflect. I have no numbers for how many people pick up a few trains, and then give up, but I don't think it's small.  And it's likely one of the reasons the hobby has so much trouble attracting new people.

 

Unitram layouts today are likely "first" layouts, or at least first urban tram layouts, for many people. Those are likely to be similar because of the limited track and pre-built structures, and the fact that the modelers have other things to focus on than being different.  As that first wave of modelers gets more experienced with urban tram layouts, I think we're going to see more creativity, kit-bashing, and scratch-building applied to the basic Unitram elements.

 

Another problem model railroading has is that so much of it, particularly in North America, is firmly rooted in a nostalgia not shared by younger potential modelers (how many people were born when we still had mainline steam trains? Compare that with how many trains/buildings reflect that era).  Unitram, as a very modern light-rail model that many younger urban residents can identify with, has a lot of potential to bring new people into the hobby.  Some of those will go on to make very creative railroads over time, and some will happily "play with trains" without going beyond the bounds of Unitram. And both of those are good things and strengthen our hobby by increasing the market for manufacturers.

 

So yes, most Unitram layouts today do look similar.  And I don't think that's a problem at all.

[Mudkip Orange]

I think a big part of it has to do with the road system.

 

Yeah... there's a lot of different traction lines in Japan. A lot of them duck in and out of private ROW, like Tokyu-Setagaya or the Iyotetsu lines. Still others cram into narrow Edo-period streets... Iyotetsu comes to mind again, or some portions of the Toden-Arakawa, or the single-track street running that Enoden is known for.

 

The Unitram street system is modeled after wide, post-WWII streets. Each piece of road has four lanes of traffic *in addition to* the two rail lines. That's wider than large portions of the Toyama streetcar network, much of which only has one lane of traffic in each direction. That's even wider than Main Street in Houston! And when you're bigger than Texas, you're pretty big.

 

The smaller, low-rise buildings that are characteristic of Japanese sprawl just don't look right when you put them next to such huge urban streets. Thus everyone buys high-rises, since high-rises are the only thing that looks good with the road plates. And there's a limited number of Japanese high-rises commercially available... hence everyone ends up with the same buildings, and by extension, the same layout.

 

The silver lining is that since the streets detach from the track, you can easily model narrower street networks by backfilling with foamcore or spackle. And since the streets are just big sheets of plastic, I wouldn't put it past Kato to introduce prefab narrow streets later on, that just clip onto the standard track sections.

[Hobby Dreamer]

Great post and terrific photos CMT!

 

As a start, the Unitram V50 is an amazing kit. If all Kato/Tomix did was to release the Portrams I am certain people would have been happy, would have bought the product and would have started with ovals on their existing Kato/Tomix track. Some, if not most, would pine for specifically made tram track - and we got that. (And very nice track indeed!). Then there would be interest in integrating roads beside the tracks and we got that too. It seems that a lot of Japanese N-scale is built around a system (of track, for structures etc) and we got that.

 

All in all a very good start.  Way more than one could have hoped for. Yet, I think its only the beginning.

 

Kato put some thought into the tram track so that it integrates with their existing Unitrack system (but didn't have to) and although it apparently isn't 100% compatible with other Diotown products (there is a minor height discrepancy) it seems an ideal counterpoint to the viaduct station set and integrates well with all Japanese structures.

 

Its been suggested that Kato would not develop turnouts or cross-overs because these are not prototypically Japanese.  (Kato seems to have worked on a double 90 degree crossover, however). Some of the very first photos from Japanese model shows were not based on the Untram track loop but of crossovers with a figure-eight with tight radius. And there were several Japanese sites with turnouts (using Unitrack). How could this be? Probably because model train enthusiasts the world over want action, whether its prototypical or not. Aren't most prototypical tram routes just linear in Japan? Yet has there been one photo or video of this with the model Portrams? Who wants a layout that goes back and forth?

 

And why has Tomix started to develop new tram track despite having seemingly popular tram track "covers" (that BTW, have turnouts).

 

I think modelers want action on their layouts, want cool looking layouts (and the V50 is very cool but maybe limited and limiting) and modelers want layouts that change or are more unique such as provided by turnouts. I am certain even the Japanese won't be happy for long with the same layout. One of the very first Tomix photos showed their Portram on a serpentine road, which seems awfully non-prototypical! Why did they do that?

 

It does, however, seem a long time to wait for news about new track variants, but its also a very tough time economically. IST stated it quite well - a lot of people are just completing their initial track investments and experiments and might not have the means to buy more at this point. But who isn't wanting more?

 

Ours is a select group that searches product on-line. I wonder how many Japanese enthusiasts wait until they see new kits in their LHS or at model shows that they may visit/attend every once in a while. We might be impatient for new product when many have not seen the initial release or are now saving for a future purchase.

 

Kato invested a lot of time into this system and produced an unparalleled final product with super detail, lights and an interior. These are showcase items and it seems hard to believe this quality and level of engineering was invested for the V50 loop only. And since the Unitram track is the same height as Unitrack how hard would it be for Kato to integrate turnouts with their existing technology?

 

And didn't this whole endeavor take years? For a loop, only?

 

I have zero interest in a V50 loop layout but bought the kit to support Kato to inspire this new direction. Quite simply, Kato's Portrams are better than one could hope for and the best trams in any scale I have ever seen. (Yes, I have seen the O scale trams from Russia). And their track rocks!

 

With the V50 one has a major urban city block and there is only so much that can be done to make it unique and interesting. I'm betting that individual track pieces will soon be available to expand the layouts, followed by the crossover and turnouts. And Tomix will release their track, which has the potential for single track use - and this will be extremely popular!

 

And why are more trams on the way? To run on the same oval??

 

Although the V50 takes little space any expansion via turnouts will only require more. For that reason I'm also betting that tight radii will soon appear, on or along with single track.

 

Maybe the current V50 tram layouts do look the same, for now, but as those great photos show they are really more than one could have hoped for!!

 

I've been thinking about the V50 and why Kato has only released this with no real advanced information of their future plans. If they released the trams first, people would have bought Tomix tram track covers. If they released the track only, people might have bought the Tomytec trams. Is the V50 the end? I doubt it. Way too much refinement, new trams on the way and hints of new track...

 

Actually, CMT, your photos rock! Its like museum-quality..

 

Can you imagine seeing your layout at a N.A. train show!  They would need drool covers...

 

Maybe that's my 2 cents but if all that comes from Kato is additional straights and curves I could live with it!

 

Cheers

Rick

[Hobby Dreamer]

Hi Mudkip Orange.

 

You posted while I was still typing but I appreciate your insights! I did not realize that the road part can be separated from the track - which does seem to imply something even if only that track without road may become available.

 

You are quite right and insightful about the wide roads driving the whole V50 layout similarity. But I think back to the original photos from Tomix's site and they were serpentine single road in a very moderately urban setting. Their original track covers also seem quite wide but they chose not to advertise their trams with a major urban setting, but could have.

 

I like your idea of snapping a single road lane to the track part and hope Kato is listening.. 

 

Cheers

[Martijn Meerts]

That's the disadvantage of a sectional track system that's combined with road plates. There's just not enough variation.

 

That said, considering Unitram is mainly (at least initially) for the Japanese market, it makes sense to have the road plates and everything. It sure looks better than just a double oval of unitrack or finetrack on the floor.

 

Considering the popularity of it all, I'm pretty sure Kato will be coming with additional unitram items. I would imagine single track plates coming sooner rather than later to go with all the Enoden trams available ;)

[Krackel Hopper]

hey hey,

 

Yes - Most Unitram layouts look the same.  As everyone mentioned, limited product available.  However, I think another reason Unitram all looks the same is because of a general lack of creativity.  Mudkip gave a few suggestions how to alter the streets so they are not so huge.  Another thought, unitram works of a 25mm track spacing, which can be done with regular unitrack.

 

Using Unitrack between some plates to mimic a narrow RoW behind houses is a good start.

 

Are the Unitram and Kato's road plates compatible?  If so, you could use road plates and Unitrack to separate road from rail and create a building buffer between the two.

 

Last but not least - Try to avoid modeling a symmetrical circle/oval.  You want your layout to feel like it's going somewhere.  A nice S curve or the tram disappearing into an urban tunnel, something to break up the view.  Or consider point-to-point operations.  Creating a tram/trolley barn on one end and a terminus station on the other.  Possibly some stops in between (depending on total length) would give a sense of purpose.

 

Watching a tram circle a 7-11 or a block of high-rise buildings will get a little boring.

 

I think the key for any layout (tram or otherwise) is to have a sense of purpose.

 

Jon

 

Addition -

Many North American railfans have a mind set that regards trams (trolleys as they call them) as second class rolling stock only suitable for toy like loops and back and forth shuttles. Its not real model railroading in their view.

 

I would completely disagree with this statement.  While many Americans prefer to model big Union Pacific coal/container operations, I don't think they look down upon the trolley/tram/street car operations.

 

Here's a link to a rather large US modeling group dedicated to light rail operations.

http://www.eastpenn.org/

They primarily use the Tomix tram tracks, but I wonder if some of the club members are using Unitram, or playing with possibilities..

[Mudkip Orange]

I would completely disagree with this statement.  While many Americans prefer to model big Union Pacific coal/container operations, I don't think they look down upon the trolley/tram/street car operations.

 

Here's a link to a rather large US modeling group dedicated to light rail operations.

http://www.eastpenn.org/

They primarily use the Tomix tram tracks, but I wonder if some of the club members are using Unitram, or playing with possibilities..

 

The thing about serious American traction modelers is they've tended to prefer O Scale for quite some time, hence they've been somewhat segregated from the HO/N modelers, who build the big complex freight layouts with little trolley loops added as an afterthought. Even the East Penn group (which is probably the biggest N scale traction meet in the U.S. at this point) started life as an O Scale club, with the Tomix/EasyTrolley guys ending up an offshoot of that.

 

I also think there's a generational gap at work here. Trolley modeling in the US has tended to be fairly meticulous; people string their own catenary, they power the trolleys from that catenary (which makes it incredibly finicky), they custom-build their own switches to replicate the complex trackwork of US trolley systems. That craftsman approach seems to fit the early boomers and "greatest generation" types, but not the late boomers (i.e., people now in their 40s and 50s) nor anyone younger.

[bill937ca]

Perhaps it is time to take another look at this subject.  I have just ordered enough individual pieces of Unitram to build a table top layout. Unitram still has limitations as does Wide Tram track but it is much better  My layout will be simple, a double track oval with a double track cut back without the road plates. I have already designed one module that uses Unitram double track and Wide Tram track single track to go around a statue.

 

But I have looked a creating a much more elaborate layout when I have the space.  Its based on the tram network in Milan Italy.  The tram lines move out in a radial pattern from Piazza Cordusio.  Current 5 tram lines run through the piazza, but before 2010 seven tram lines passed through this point.  With Unitram I get in all but one curve into the plan but lines are very much rigid 90 degree lines.

 

I've chosen to layout alternate routes away the central junction to avoid nasty reverse loops. The plan attached is for 30" x 60" layout table.  The lines would continue out to their ends on other tables where each route would have a dogbone style loop  and then return to the heart of the layout. I visualize up to eight terminals.

 

I would like to see some short curves so we could have short, gentle curving sections. As it is all Unitram layouts will continue to have a rigid 90 degree grid layout. The system remains very limited, there really is only one curve even though there are two curve pieces.

 

Just for reference there's a map of how the Milan tram system is laid out here and a profile of the system here. System size is 405 trams and 297.9 km of track.

[ianlaw]

Reading the original posts...

If you lay down a small circular line and put some buildings in the centre of course every layout will look the same. But then I see a lot of Japanese railway layouts built in a similar fashion... I don't think it's the limited rolling stock or available rails but only your imagination that's holding you back. You need to think about a fiddle yard or at least hiding one part of the layout in a tunnel. Or combining streetrunning with running on independent track between a housing estate and kit bash those bog standard town buildings everyone has. How about some decent weathering?

So the idea Bill has is going the right way. But whatever you do, you need to create different scenes in every street. Don't only work on the trackplan but also of the townscape.

[bill937ca]

You can do a half curve with a 40-021 attached to a 40-101 or 40-102, but you end up with one section of ballasted track and one section of paved track.  The track center would be 25mm on the ends and 33mm in the center. It might be useful for a loop.

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10205630

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10188994

[bill937ca]

I like Milan as a layout prototype because there many non-standard features on its tram lines.  The Archi di Porta Nuova on the Via Manzoni is about as close as you will come to a tunnel portal on an urban tram line.  Wikipedia has a good photo of the Arch di Porta  Nuova.  This could easily be created with one of tunnel liners that can be obtained from HS. There is also a traffic circle where the tram line splits to go around a statute.  That can be modeled with the Kato 20-045 and Tomix Wide Tram track. 

 

You can see the portal at the beginning of this video.

 

Edited February 16, 2013 by bill937ca

[brill27mcb]

To run more than one car at a time, you will need DCC, or some blocks created with insulating Unijoiners and toggle switches, like I use on the Tomix EasyTrolley setups. Your layout will also get very busy down at the lower end, where all the routes converge.

 

Does anyone know if the new Unitram turnout pieces are route-selecting in any way, in terms of unpowering one or both rails of the unselected route?

 

Rich K.

[bill937ca]

There are some track plans on this Japanese language blog.

 

http://blog.miyakomokei.com/?p=4440

[CaptOblivious]

Slightly off-topic, but I just missed an opportunity to ride some of San Francisco's Milanese Peter Witts (managed a PCC every time I rode…). They are objects of beauty, truly.