Base-boards What are yours made of?

[keiman]

Right Guys, I am getting ready to go and buy the timber for my Board, but wanted to know what people on here use.

Size will be 1.5m x 0.75m

I am crap at woodwork  so chipboard, MDF or similar.  No frame but must be rigid and light enough to move by one person, with the track secured to it.

Don't want to use Foam board ,that was fine for T Gauge with a small basic oval but not really good for the portability of Keitown .

[ToniBabelony]

MDF is crap. I used it once and it was heavy as a brick. Besides that, it tends to bend under its own weight as well... Plywood is a good option as it's light, not too expensive and sturdy.

[CaptOblivious]

You could use 2" or 3" insulation foam, but I'd really recommend cutting your layout into portable sections if you did that. It's quite rigid, so it doesn't bend under a load, but it can and will snap in two if the load is two great while you're carrying it.

 

You might also consider framing out some HDF, high-density fibreboard. Get the resin-treated kind if you can. It's very thin, but fairly lightweight, and super strong and dimensionally stable. Because it is thin, it will have to be cradled or framed, but the framing necessary is generally pretty low-profile and lightweight compared to the framing that plywood needs. Often "pegboard" is made from HDF (but be wary! Sometimes it is just MDF, and that stuff won't do at all in such thin sheets), and can be bought in large sheets. The stuff is pricey, but I think it is ideal for readily man-portable layouts.

[KenS]

I use dimensional 1-inch x 3-inch pine (in a knot-free grade) to make a 2-foot x 4-foot "butt-joint" box with one crossbar, then top it with half-inch (5 layer) sheet of birch plywood screwed to the frame. That is probably much more rigid than it needs to be (I could stand on it), but frequent mobility isn't a requirement for me so the weight is not a problem. More (and lots of pictures) on my Construction pages.

 

A box structure is important to keep the wood top from warping if you use a large, flat surface, particularly if it's thin wood. That's why many people use doors, since they are a very light-weight box structure. If you use thinner wood, you'll need more cross-supports (the thinner the surface wood, the shorter the unsupported span of the top can be).

 

A box doesn't need to be complex. All my corners are simple; no fancy interlocking cuts. Just make sure you assemble it on a truely flat surface. Use of a 90-degree square to check alignment, and corner clamps to hold the dimensional wood at a 90-degree angle while screwing it together is a really good idea. You may be able to get the wood cut to size at a lumberyard or home-supply store, but often those are one approximately to length, and even 1/8 of an inch (5-6 mm) can matter, so be sure you and the person cutting agree on what you want and what they can do.

 

I also glue insulation foam to the top to make scenery, but you could just put things directly on the wood.

[cteno4]

Kelman,

 

on the first JRM layout we made 2' x 4' modules out of 1" pink foam board with 0.75" x 1.75" pine framing around them. these made very very solid and flat bases that would get tied together into the whole layout with some bottom plates and screws at the show.

 

these modules took 5 years of abuse, being assembled/disassembled over 25 times and thrown around in transport and storage a lot and are still in great shape. they are ultra light weight and tough.

 

why no foam board for your transport layout if i can ask? seems like the best solution when you want things light weight and still pretty tough and stiff/flat. i would hazzard at that size you could even just use 1" foam board and trim it with some moulding like 1.5" tall and glue the trim to the foamboard, no need to even frame it. i have a 4' x 8' hunk (actually two 2'x8' pieces) of 1.5" foam sitting on 5 2x4s on top of a folding table here in my office. i set it up a long time back to run some trains on quickly, then crap started to land on the table and the track went away, and now its covered with misc train stuff, some pretty heavy and the foam has stayed remarkably flat for years now!

 

for the second jrm layout we went to very thin modules 1" tall so foamboard was out. we used 3/16" luan ply for the top and 1" x 0.75" pine that had a rabbet joint along the top edge for the ply to fit into. they also have 2 cross pieces that are at 1/3rds spacing across the short length. these are very sturdy and flat and light weight. these measure 1m x 0.5m in size. i built Aaron's train table at 3' x 6' with the same technique and it was good and solid as well.

 

i would stay away from mdf for your framing. its tough to carefully sink screws into and its heavy. fine if you have big surfaces to attach to, but for small joints you have way too much pressure in a very small area and easy to fail.

 

on the top ply works great if you want something really solid, and you dont need thick ply for something as small as your are talking, you can get by with the thinnest you can buy in the 3-5mm range. any thicker and its just a lot of weight to deal with.

 

cheers,

 

jeff

[Martijn Meerts]

MDF has another problem. While it's really easy to work with, the dust particles that come off can be harmful to your health. And yes, the stuff is heavy.. I made a piece of furniture for my hi-fi gear from 22mm MDF. It needed to be strong and sturdy, my receiver alone weighs about 20 kilo's. For anything train related, I probably wouldn't consider using it.

 

The layout we're working on now is an open frame construction, so there's no real baseboard. We use 18x69mm pinewood for the frame, and make cross sections out of 9mm plywood. The railbeds are also cut out of 9mm plywood for the most part, with some 5mm sections where clearance was too tight with 9mm.

 

One thing to keep in mind, the thinner the wood, the more noise when a train drives over it ;) Also, using cork to dampen the noise is pretty pointless if you decided to ballast the track using diluted white glue. The cork will become rock hard..

[keiman]

Thanks for the comments so far guys,

Jeff the reason I have not put foam board on my choice of options is I don't know where in the UK I can get thick board, especially at weekends.

I can cope with soldering SMD components and most things electrical (work), I can put up shelves or hang a bit of wallpaper but that is close to the limit of my DIY skills.

 

The surface of what ever I use will have Grass mat, and other similar coverings for Road, Park etc. I can work with MDF etc for building small diorama's about A4 papersize and will use most materials to build on that size, but a larger area like this I am working at the edge of my comfort zone.

[CaptOblivious]

One option might simply be to walk down to your local lumber yard/hardware store, have a look at what's available, and have a chat with an employee.

 

Another option is to hit Ikea, if you have one local. They make a variety of desk top surfaces in the dimensions you are looking at. They are generally quite stable, fairly light, and can be fitted with easily removed legs for transportation. You could probably affix your layout material directly to the table top, maybe with a slight bit of prep work.

http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/categories/departments/workspaces/10712/

[grumbeast]

I know you don't want to use foam, however  I did make a layout about that size from the 2" pink dense foam and build it as I would a wooden layout (basically I made hollow boxes of foam.  The thing weighed nothing and had zero flex to it.  I assembled entirely with the special glue for the foam and it was a bugger to break when I finally had to get rid of it.  So don't discount the foam.  I'm thinking of using it again on my next layout (which is going to be quite a bit bigger).  The only thing I'd change, is that I would put a masonite fascia on it just to stop corners getting knocked off

 

Cheers

 

Graham

[cteno4]

the new jrm modules are topped with 3/16 ply with basically 13/16"x0.75" framing below. the open areas are roughly 0.5mx0.33m and they dont make noise at all. the old layout had 1" thick foam with open areas maybe 20% larger and they also did not make noise when running trains.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[Mudkip Orange]

1/4" birch plywood over a 1x2 and 1x4 subframe

[keitaro]

I was going to use a 1400 x 900mm ply board with a frame underneath for extra support and place 3 950mm x 550mm x 7mm foam board glued down on top of the ply. Place some handles on each side of board so can carry about with folding legs.

 

Is the foam glued down a bad idea?

[Bernard]

I was going to use a 1400 x 900mm ply board with a frame underneath for extra support and place 3 950mm x 550mm x 7mm foam board glued down on top of the ply. Place some handles on each side of board so can carry about with folding legs.

 

Is the foam glued down a bad idea?

 

 

 

Foam board glued down is a great idea if you want to carve landscapes (rivers, ponds,etc.) or build mountains, hills into your layout plan & it's light weight.

In the US we have "Liquid Nails for Foam Project" or PL-300. They come in tubes and you use a chalking gun to apply it surfaces of the foam & plywood. http://www.lowes.com/pd_286772-69-1445998_0__?newSearch=true&catalogId=10051&productId=3266281&UserSearch=pl300&Ntt=pl-300&N=0&langId=-1&storeId=10151

 

Once you apply the adhesive, put weights (books, jugs of water) on top of the foam board until it sets.

 

With foam board you can easily transfer your layout plan onto the board first by drawing a grid on it. (photo 3)

Then make a compass to draw your track radius. (photo 4) 

[Guest ___]

I was going to use a 1400 x 900mm ply board with a frame underneath for extra support and place 3 950mm x 550mm x 7mm foam board glued down on top of the ply. Place some handles on each side of board so can carry about with folding legs.

 

Is the foam glued down a bad idea?

 

 

 

Foam board glued down is a great idea if you want to carve landscapes (rivers, ponds,etc.) or build mountains, hills into your layout plan & it's light weight.

In the US we have "Liquid Nails for Foam Project" or PL-300. They come in tubes and you use a chalking gun to apply it surfaces of the foam & plywood. http://www.lowes.com/pd_286772-69-1445998_0__?newSearch=true&catalogId=10051&productId=3266281&UserSearch=pl300&Ntt=pl-300&N=0&langId=-1&storeId=10151

 

Once you apply the adhesive, put weights (books, jugs of water) on top of the foam board until it sets.

 

With foam board you can easily transfer your layout plan onto the board first by drawing a grid on it. (photo 3)

Then make a compass to draw your track radius. (photo 4) 

 

I second Bernard on this. (I did the same thing myself) One other benefit though not as much an issue with N-scale is that the foam aborts noise and vibration from the train as well.

[yakumo381]

5 mm ply topping 1" x 2" framing with butt joints glued & screwed. Scenery from polystyrene ceiling tiles built around ply sections. Make sure wood is well dried out when you buy it otherwise it will warp as it dries out in the heat from the central heating.

 

A different question - how do you keep your layout dust free? I am convinced that static must build up in the layout and attract dust as mine is in a room with no carpets, no curtains and no soft furnishings plus I keep the window shut when not in there yet every few days the dust slowly builds up and any loose scatter material migrates to where it shouldn't be 

[keitaro]

awesome yeah was planning to do a lake and all that i wasn't sure if after a while the foam would warp or come loose

[cteno4]

 

A different question - how do you keep your layout dust free? I am convinced that static must build up in the layout and attract dust as mine is in a room with no carpets, no curtains and no soft furnishings plus I keep the window shut when not in there yet every few days the dust slowly builds up and any loose scatter material migrates to where it shouldn't be 

 

Yakumo,

 

i think you may have something about static as dust is a problem for many people's layouts but usually folks think its from central heating, etc. many HEPA air cleaners in their layout rooms to try and keep the dust down. some like the ionic ones that trap dust with static, but from the allergy side those dont seem to be so effective...

 

they styrene foam can hold a pretty good charge, im wondering if that can keep a charge to attract dust.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[KenS]

Liquid nails for foam is good, although I think you'll need to ventilate when using it, which can be hard in winter.

 

I actually use PVA (carpenters glue). This doesn't bond as strongly, and even less strong if you paint the wood, and it might be a poor choice for a portable layout.  But for a rarely-moved one like mine it's not an issue. The large surface area of the foam/wood joint makes for a pretty strong bond even if the glue is relatively weak.

 

Making sure the wood is dry is also a good idea.  I let mine stabilize in the layout room with a dehumidifier for several weeks after I bought it before cutting and assembling it (I also had other things I needed to work on, so it wasn't like I was just waiting for it to dry).  I then painted it (both sides) with one coat of latex primer to seal the wood, to minimize future expansion due to humidity.

 

This is also a good reason to use plywood rather than dimensional lumber, as the cross-grain layers of plywood make it less prone to expansion or warping due to humidity (not immune though).

 

I'm not sure there's much you can do about dust unless you can control the room (i.e., keep doors closed and pet/child traffic out, tile the floor, put in a ceiling, vacuum/mop the floor regularly, etc).  I'm using an unfinished basement, and dust is a continuous problem I haven't really solved (I've considered building a small frame to support plastic sheeting used as a dust-cover, but haven't quite brought myself to that yet). And even if you do, there's still going to be some dust, just less of it.

 

Much household dust is shed skin. The average person loses 3 lbs per year as shed skin flakes per one website I saw; think about how much dust that makes!  Even if you sealed the room, if you're spending a few hours a week in there you'd still have to deal with dust. And most rooms get additional dust from clothing, shoes, ventilation and other sources. Not to mention as a byproduct of layout construction.

 

And the one thing to know about ionic cleaners is that they clear the air, they don't get rid of dust.  What that means is that they put a charge on it so it quickly sticks to things rather than floating around waiting to be breathed (some of it sticks to the cleaner, but the rest goes elsewhere, like floors, walls and layouts).  Good for your lungs. Not so good for a model railroad.  I have several of these, and I like them, but I dust more now than I used to, and I don't have one in the layout room for that reason.

[keitaro]

is this glue good to use u think?

 

http://www.officeworks.com.au/retail/products/Office-Supplies/General-Stationery/Adhesives-Tapes-and-Glues/Specialty-Adhesives/All-Purpose-Adhesives/LEAF250G

 

thinking of placing these ontop of the board to use

 

http://www.officeworks.com.au/retail/products/Office-Supplies/Paper-Labels-and-Envelopes/Coloured-Copy-Paper/Specialty-Boards/Foam-Boards/QU917WEKIT

[KenS]

is this glue good to use u think?

 

http://www.officeworks.com.au/retail/products/Office-Supplies/General-Stationery/Adhesives-Tapes-and-Glues/Specialty-Adhesives/All-Purpose-Adhesives/LEAF250G

 

The Selley's website says that it's suitable for wood or for polystyrene foam "where the other surface is porus", which means it should be a good glue.  The "not very water resistant" suggests that it's a water-based glue (probably a PVA similar to white glue).  I prefer the "yellow" carpenter's glue since it's not affected by water after it cures. But white glue works (I've used it at times).

 

thinking of placing these ontop of the board to use

 

http://www.officeworks.com.au/retail/products/Office-Supplies/Paper-Labels-and-Envelopes/Coloured-Copy-Paper/Specialty-Boards/Foam-Boards/QU917WEKIT

 

This is what I'd call "foamcore".  The big problem with it is that the paper layers will warp if they get wet, which makes them really unsuitable to use under scenic materials.  A better choice is "gatorboard" which is a similar material, except that instead of paper the sides are made of wood fibers embedded in resin.

 

However, neither is carveable the way insulation foam (also called extruded polystyrene or XPS) is.  Gatorboard (or foamcore if you're careful) can be used to create a profile under cardboard strips and plaster cloth (the "hardshell" method of scenery). But that tends to make for heavy layouts.

[keitaro]

good info. i couldn't find anywhere nearby that sells large foam sheets. the local art store only had small more a4 sized ones .. have to keep looking about

[KenS]

Building supply stores. In the U.S. Home Depot and similar sell 2' x 8' panels in multiple thicknesses, which is much cheaper than getting the small ones sold in hobby stores.

[cteno4]

Keitaro,

 

the foam panels that folks are talking about are used for insulation. after the building supply stores you might check refrigeration installation places--the places that install large walk in freezers-- as they use this stuff for insulation. thats sometimes the last ditch place to find it in a warmer climate that doesnt use this kind of insulation in homes.

 

cheers

 

jeff