Kato \ Tomix track - Why?

[Lawrence]

I am convinced that there is not a dead straight piece of track in the US

 

What on earth are you talking about?

 

What about here or here or here or here or here?

 

You've clearly been spending *entirely* too much time on the East Coast, my friend.

 

You call those straight, clearly you are deranged  .  Seriously though the little kinks in all of the shots you provide strengthen what I said earlier, real life straight track that looks like unitrack doesn't exist, and after all, you are just building a model - a facsimile of an idea, it adds a little something if it is not perfect.

 

Bernard - pretty much spot on, and your arguments make me wonder why I bother with the damn stuff and don't go out and buy a truckload of unitrack, no, I remember now, too expensive, too inflexible, too ugly  bit like me really

 

Gents, I remain your humble servant, but am still to be convinced

[Bernard]

There are Pros & Cons with all types of track. It really comes down to what you personally like to use and then how much "real estate" you have at your disposal. (I prefer flex track and even with that, there are certain brands I have a prefer using.)

There is one thing I forgot to mention, the reason I bought some Unitrack is so I could have a test track at my disposal. This is very helpful when receiving a new or used train to make sure everything is in working order.  

[disturbman]

Well, if you can't be convinced that everybody isn't or doesn't want to be a hardcore modeler and doesn't necessarily have the same standards as you, this conversation is of no use. ;)

 

Like Bernard said, there is pros and cons with all types of track. Some of us are just plain lazy, bored, not skilled enough or simply too afraid to play around with flextrack. Sectional tracks are not necessarily very prototypical but that's not a problem for most of the people. There is enough beautifull layouts around the world using sectional not to be allways bothered by the possibilities of flextrack. That's all depends what it's important to the modeler or what he wants to model.

 

For the moment, I'm more than happy with my sectional tracks but I might try flextrack if that suits some of my (future) projects.

 

:)

[Bernard]

There are some modelers that have used Unitrack for their permanent layouts.

Here is a fellow modeler's blog on his layout. It is entirely made up of Kato Unitrack.

http://www.powersteamguy1790.com/5.html

[Martijn Meerts]

I grew up with trains, and I've built (but never finished ;)) quite a few layouts. The one we're building now is the first one where I've actually felt good enough to use flex on sections that aren't just long straights =)

[Fat Al]

Being a noob, the idea of using flextrack just scares me. Sure it gives me a larger array of layout options as compared to fixed track systems, but buying something knowing that it will cause derailments just doesn't make me comfortable.

 

Bachmann and Faller tracks here cost a lot of money, Peco tracks are non-existant. And one of the reasons why I've gone with Tomix Flextrack is the variety of bits and pieces I can buy ready made which are just...cool. As a quick sample, over the weekend, I managed to buy automated signals, road crossings, and even a turntable that's basically plug and play. Cost a lot of money, but gives me piece of mind knowing that, by and large, they work as advertised.

 

Being a modeler, I've long known that spending a little extra cash goes a long way. The difference between buying Airfix and Tamiya, for example, illustrates that quite clearly for me.

[quinntopia]

I think everyone's pretty much beaten this horse to a pulp, but I'll add to one point that Bernard made, and that is this argument that there is no flex track made by Kato.  This is true, but it doesn't really matter;  Kato still uses Code 80 rail, and your Atlas rail joiners will work with Unitrack or Finetrack, tah-dah! Flex track problem solved!!!    I use Kato Unitrack AND Flextrack (Fleischmann's profi-track), but could also have used Atlas flex track.  With some detailing and ballasting, most people won't be able to tell. 

 

Ultimately I like Unitrack because it works.  If I was creating a diorama where I would never run trains, I would probably choose code 55 from Peco since it looks great, but I'm not at that stage.

[NozomiFan]

Yeah dude, Like Mudkip said, The greatest thing about the Unitrack is salvaging is easy. When Unit 01 and Unit 02 were scraped (layouts) I simply ripped the track right off. Now, I only do temporary layouts. Well, besides that, Unitrack is just well, cool stuff. Also, Flex track (dare I say it)

requires BALLASTING.

[rankodd]

My grand track plan has a bunch of off-square angles that are making it difficult and expensive to build out of sectional, but I do have a stack of Unitrack and Finetrack that I want to use. Since I've never built a model railroad before (I only had an HO oval and a slot car track when I was a kid), I'm going to experiment with Atlas flextrack and turnouts on a couple of smaller dioramas first. I suspect that I'll end up using a combination of all three in the final product.

[bill937ca]

My grand track plan has a bunch of off-square angles that are making it difficult and expensive to build out of sectional, but I do have a stack of Unitrack and Finetrack that I want to use. Since I've never built a model railroad before (I only had an HO oval and a slot car track when I was a kid), I'm going to experiment with Atlas flextrack and turnouts on a couple of smaller dioramas first. I suspect that I'll end up using a combination of all three in the final product.

 

Have you tried using software like Anyrail to plan your layout or ordering a layout plan book from a Japanese dealer?

 

AnyRail allows you to create layouts up to 50 pieces of track without buying it.

 

http://www.anyrail.com/index_en.html

 

Here's a couple of layout plan books, one for Tomix and one for Kato.  They can give you an idea of how to layout stations and other features.

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10044642

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10075133

[Guest ___]

As a former Code 83 Atlas and Walthers and non-unitrack systems I did in HO, all I can say is going over to Unitrack was great. I have nowhere near the issues I had with bad rail-joiners popping up. No clipping flex track to fit, no rail spikes. On top of that, no ballasting.

[Mudkip Orange]

I suspect that I'll end up using a combination of all three in the final product.

AVOID the CRAP out of Atlas Turnouts.

 

DO NOT USE THEM.

 

Mix and match, sure, Atlas Flex is fine, as is everything Kato, Peco and others too. But Atlas N Scale turnouts really aren't any cheaper than just using Kato, especially if you buy the Atlas switch machines to power them.

[rankodd]

AVOID the CRAP out of Atlas Turnouts.

 

DO NOT USE THEM.

 

Mix and match, sure, Atlas Flex is fine, as is everything Kato, Peco and others too. But Atlas N Scale turnouts really aren't any cheaper than just using Kato, especially if you buy the Atlas switch machines to power them.

 

Are the Atlas turnouts that bad?

 

Have you tried using software like Anyrail to plan your layout or ordering a layout plan book from a Japanese dealer?

 

 

I'm using xtrkcad

[Bernard]

rankodd - I originally had Altas turnouts on my layout and slowly have been replacing them with Peco switches. The Altas switches average about 10.00 USD but I found them to not be level in the frogs or the points on the switch. I've had to do a lot of filing down in order to prevent derailments. The Peco switches in my opinion are well make, have a spring in the switch and won't switch back by accident. Peco is more expensive at about 16.00 - 18.00 USD per switch. The rail in the Atlas switch is not as strong as the Peco so if you have to make adjustments you can snap a rail.

[David]

Are the Atlas turnouts that bad?

 

They're not Bachmann (completely useless, can't give them away), but in my own experience out of the package they will not work to an acceptable degree (too many derailments). If you have a small metal file and patience you can make a descent Atlas turnout (of which you'll still need the big ugly motor if you want it to work on a button), or you can pay an extra buck and buy a better brand to begin with.

[Martijn Meerts]

Turnouts seem to be a bit of a hit and miss for quite a few brands. My experiences with Minitrix, Fleischmann, Roco and Tomix turnouts tells me that all those 4 brands have absolutely perfect turnouts, and also turnouts that don't work like they should.

 

One thing to keep in mind though, is that many companies aren't specialized in track. I'm pretty sure that Trix for example doesn't have quite the same level of quality control as for example Peco, Peco being a company that initially only did track, and still specializes in it.

[rankodd]

My grand track plan has a bunch of off-square angles that are making it difficult and expensive to build out of sectional, but I do have a stack of Unitrack and Finetrack that I want to use. Since I've never built a model railroad before (I only had an HO oval and a slot car track when I was a kid), I'm going to experiment with Atlas flextrack and turnouts on a couple of smaller dioramas first. I suspect that I'll end up using a combination of all three in the final product.

 

Have you tried using software like Anyrail to plan your layout or ordering a layout plan book from a Japanese dealer?

 

AnyRail allows you to create layouts up to 50 pieces of track without buying it.

 

http://www.anyrail.com/index_en.html

 

Here's a couple of layout plan books, one for Tomix and one for Kato.  They can give you an idea of how to layout stations and other features.

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10044642

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10075133

 

 

I actually have the Tomix Layout Room v 1 and 2. Not great as general layout books, but they have given me a couple of details that I definitely will be using. As I mentioned earlier, I am also using xtrkcad to actually plan the layout - quirky, but works well enough it seems. Especially for free.

 

I've been planning the layout itself for at least 2 months now - I'm up to the 3rd iteration of version 6 :( It's rather ambitious - my wishlist contains a shinkansen line, double track main line, 2 stations, tramway, subway, river, and mountain. All in a u-shaped area (40x92" on one side, 30x72" on the other, with a 26" deep shelf ~6 feet long joining the two along the back). The sectional nature of Unitrack and Finetrack have definitely been serious limitations in trying to make everything I want fit in a pleasing manner.

 

Using the Kato/Tomix turnouts presents another problem - controlling them. It turns out that my Tomix controller that I got with a starter kit can only control 2 turnouts, and doesn't have any facility for adding extras. If I want more than 2 on my tram, I'm going to have to buy another one above what I'd already planned. Adding cost to an already expensive-sounding project is scary. My Kato controller is able to add point switches (but the 500-series Shinkansen I got with it isn't DCC ready. GRR.)

 

I'm also in Edmonton, Alberta. It seems that N-scale is quite scarce around here, and Kato non-existant.

 

All that combined means I was really hoping the Atlas stuff would work... My grand project (coming to a blog near you...sometime...) is obviously quite ambitious for a first-timer, so I've got a couple of much smaller "starter" projects to try - the first of which already has Atlas turnouts and flextrack bought and paid for. We'll see how it goes. It sounds like I'll be running a lot of flextrack between Kato turnouts for the main project. Not looking forward to trying to blend those together...

[Mudkip Orange]

Are the Atlas turnouts that bad?

 

YES

[Bernard]

rankodd - There is a learning curve using flex track but you will have no problem with it. Since you have the Atlas turnouts, if you are planning on having a yard I would use them there and get a better switch for your mainline. If money is a factor try the Atlas switches but don't solder them in place in case you might have to make adjustments latter or if a switch breaks.

For flex track you will need a good soldering iron and rail nippers. I have xuron nippers http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/product_p/791-2175b.htm and use them all the time.

As for the motors for the switches I either recommend under the table ones like tortoise http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Circuitron_6000_The_Tortoise_TM_Switch_Machi_p/800-6000.htm which can be expensive

or manual throws http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/product_p/cab-206s.htm at a big savings but it is manual.

You will also need cork roadbed to mount the flex track on.

If you decide to combine the flex track with Unitrack you can it very easy, all you have to do is remove the Kato rail joiner and replace it with a Atlas one.

[rankodd]

rankodd - There is a learning curve using flex track but you will have no problem with it. Since you have the Atlas turnouts, if you are planning on having a yard I would use them there and get a better switch for your mainline. If money is a factor try the Atlas switches but don't solder them in place in case you might have to make adjustments latter or if a switch breaks.

For flex track you will need a good soldering iron and rail nippers. I have xuron nippers http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/product_p/791-2175b.htm and use them all the time.

As for the motors for the switches I either recommend under the table ones like tortoise http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Circuitron_6000_The_Tortoise_TM_Switch_Machi_p/800-6000.htm which can be expensive

or manual throws http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/product_p/cab-206s.htm at a big savings but it is manual.

You will also need cork roadbed to mount the flex track on.

If you decide to combine the flex track with Unitrack you can it very easy, all you have to do is remove the Kato rail joiner and replace it with a Atlas one.

 

 

 

Thanks for the advice!

 

I'm an electronics/computer guy, so I have a temperature controlled soldering station, and I've got a box of Woodland Scenics foam roadbed instead of cork.

My initial test layout is teeny-tiny (17" x 23"?) tram setup, so my switches are all manual.

 

Questions:

As far as track nippers go, how different are they from a good pair of side cutters?

I was under the impression that tortoise switch machines were for DCC only. Can they be wired for DC?

[Martijn Meerts]

Track nippers cut the track much better than side cutters. With side cutters you often need to clean the track up a bit, with nippers you don't. At least, that's my experience.

 

Tortoise is a DC switch machine, which has a DCC board which can be connected to the Tortoise easily. The main disadvantage of the Tortoise is that they're HUGE. Another option would be servo's.

 

On a side note, you don't HAVE to solder flex track, but especially in curves it's more reliable to solder them. There are other options, but none are as easy as soldering, especially if you're handy with a soldering iron in the first place.

[Lawrence]

Well, if you can't be convinced that everybody isn't or doesn't want to be a hardcore modeler and doesn't necessarily have the same standards as you, this conversation is of no use. ;)

 

Whoa, easy there fella, never said I was a hardcore modeller, nor did I ever question the standards of anyone on here, so a bit harsh there.  If you feel the conversation is of no use, feel free to ignore it!

 

Not all of us can afford to shell out large amounts of money for unitrack and have to make do with what fits the budget, it is more of a necessity thing.

 

fat Al - if you are getting derailments on flexi track you do need to double check your alignment or radii, never had an issue with it, only with curved points.

 

Someone mentioned soldering flexi track, spot on, best way to do it, 3 or 4 meter continuous runs are great.

 

As a newbie to the whole Japanese things all I wanted to do was garner opinion on the pros and cons of unitrack and in my initial post I stated my acceptance of some of the reasons for its use (space and temporary layouts)

 

I am not some hardcore prototype modeller, if I have made any comments on a layout I have tried to be as constructive as possible without being nasty, and I am no expert having learned only by my own mistakes on my previous layout, I only know what I know, which is why I find this forum invaluble for gathering opinions, ideas and knowledge.  It is not my intention to offend anyone.

[CaptOblivious]

Lawrence,

 

I don't think you've offended anyone here…I can't speak for Disturbman (aka Vincent), but I will take the opportunity to rib him by pointing out that once again he's lived up to the stereotype of the brusque-bordering-on-rude Parisian. (That is, don't read too much into his comments, especially when he sounds mean: Vincent is a bit of an acquired taste ;) )

[Martijn Meerts]

Flex track requires a bit of practice, and in the end the main advantage is the unlimited flexibility with curves and such. The main disadvantage is that coming up with a track plan is a lot more difficult, exactly because you don't have any limits with regards to curves.

 

One doesn't need to be a hardcore modeler to use flex track though, if you're really hardcore, you lay your own track ;)

[Bernard]

Lawrence - For me, by starting this thread, you have generated a lot of interesting discussions on this subject. We all have different opinions on why we prefer different types of tracks and are stating our reasons why. So for me there is no right or wrong way just different views.

 

The one thing I might add (if I haven't already) is that with flex track you are talking about a permanent layout. Everything has to be planned out especially the radius (like Marti stated) because in order to keep it set in place you have to glue it down. Also to hold the radius you have to solder the rail joins and the feeder wires.

 

After using Unitrack as part of my layout for a Viaduct, I personally prefer flex track, not only because I have no limits on the radii I want to make but the long pieces of rail that the train will run on with out breaks. Some flex track like Peco is 36" in length which in some cases equals 4 pieces of Unitrack without the breaks in the rail.

But I know one modeler that doesn't feel comfortable having to form radii. He feels more comfortable using Unitrack and has had great results on a permanent layout.