Layout Design - Simulating Distance?

[scott]

It's often frustrating that even a largish layout doesn't give you a very long run for a train, especially for an out-and-back route. I've been wondering how to design a layout that gives an impression of a longer distance travelled. It seems like there are a few ways:

 

1) Actually make a really long layout. Obvious, but not possible for most of us.

 

2) Visible spaghetti bowls. The runs are longer, but this isn't what I'm getting at--there's not much impression of distance this way (at least to me; you may disagree).

 

3) Hidden loops and spirals. Long runs out of hidden track would take a train out of view for a while and delay its reappearance elsewhere on the layout. This could take a lot of track and construction work, but would be simple to operate (as long as the hidden tracks were easily accessible).

 

4) Electronic delays. I have no idea how to do this, but it might be possible to run a train into a tunnel, and then have an automatic delay that holds it there for a while, then releases it into the next "scene" of the layout. This would take less track, and less under-layout construction, but could require complicated electronics and/or some sort of traffic control to avoid pileups.

 

5) Fiddle yards. A hidden yard would let you run a train out of a station, stuff it on siding, and run something else, then release the first train to continue later. This could be convincing to an exhibition audience, but would it be any fun at home?

 

Anyway--just thinking out loud. I'd be interested to hear anybody's else's ideas...

[disturbman]

Interesting subjet. I think, what ever you do you allways find that your layout is not long enough or complex enough. Simply because it's yours and you'll know it by heart quickly enough. 

 

One trick is to run shorter trains. Three or two cars trains usually give you the impression of a longer run than a 6, 8, 10 or 15 cars train. Shorties are great for that, they really give you the impression the scene is tighter than it really is.

 

You can also juggle with multiple complete levels. But this solution asks for a lot of contruction work and tracks. A simple way to achieve an impression of a long run in a tight space is in fact a mix of what you proposed. Unvisible spaghettis (hidden loops and dog bones) with train poping unexpectedly here and there on variously scenicked scenes + fiddle hidden yard(s).

[David]

One way of simplifying an electronic delay on DC layouts would be with blocks and resistors - the train doesn't stop in the tunnel, it just slows down due to lower voltage in that block. The thing to avoid would be lowering the voltage so much the train stalled and stopped in a hidden area.

[inobu]

The most cost effective route would to place turn outs within a mountain but that limits the number of cars you can run unless you have a huge mountain. The other way as mentioned is the bi-level layout. It opens a whole new world. Having a yard below level actually created a gateway into your layout. 

 

I like interactive modeling and would setup schedules, where you had to run a whole line. Setting your speed scales to emulate the real thing. You would have to arrive in station on time, brake at the perfect time in order to coast in. If you over ran the station stop you lose points, under shoot it loose points. Hit it on the nose and score max points for that arrival.

 

As one train departs you have to dispatch the next from the yard. Keep everything on schedule.

 

Yeah...... as my imagination goes off on a tangent. 

 

Inobu.

[Martijn Meerts]

Hidden yards with multiple entry and exit points works well. Also, automated (computer) control helps a lot with keeping things interesting. Strangely enough, the smooth acceleration and deceleration will make the layout seem bigger.. It's really weird actually =)

[marknewton]

I'd be interested to hear anybody's else's ideas...

 

Break the layout up into discrete scenes, and ensure that the entire layout cannot be seen all at once. In my experience that's an effective way to simulate distance without having hidden tracks/turnouts, or complex electronics.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[bill937ca]

A series of long, narrow modules with gently sweeping track entering and exiting tunnels. Many train tunnels in Japan are very short.  

 

There is an example on this old thread. It uses long gentle curves from one side to the other. This guy spent a ton of money on this module which he uses mainly for photography.  You don't need to do that. Trains can look good without expensive brass overhead.

 

http://www.jnsforum.com/index.php/topic,1725.0.html

 

http://ryouyu.sakura.ne.jp/kihonhenkou.html

 

http://ryouyu.sakura.ne.jp/kasen.html

 

If your layout is in a basement you could go along the wall and double back along either side of an island with a backdrop divider in the middle of the island.

 

The height of the layout may be a consideration too.  You Tube videos of layouts at eye level seem to suggest a deeper horizon than looking down on a layout.

 

EDIT

 

I found another example (that I was thinking of when I originally posted this.)

 

http://blog.goo.ne.jp/d-train/e/9a80ef4d8eb44f48d4b6992c4822bbe6

 

http://blog.goo.ne.jp/d-train/e/c6618dfd5cabd6ba00addebdde6c2d2a

[Claude_Dreyfus]

I would always recommend having a fiddle yard, irrspective of your intention for the layout - permanent home-based model or exhibition (I would say it is essential for the latter). I wouldn't say this will give you any extra space in terms of actually running the trains...really the best way to achieve this has already been mentioned - run shorter trains. Some of the most effective layouts I have seen are 20'+ in length, but run 2 or 4-car trains.

 

From a visual perspective, a popular technique is forced perspective. At its most basic it could involve N Gauge at the front of the layout with perhaps Z towards the back. In view of the range of Z scale stuff available some pretty cool, albeit pricey, effects can be achieved. Why not go the whole hog and have a T Gauge line in the far distance?  

 

I may be jesting on the last point, but I have seen this done. There is a spectacular N gauge finescale layout here in the UK called Copenhagen fields, based on a stretch of track just outside of Kings Cross station set from about 1900 to c.1960. This is one of the UK's seminal layouts and has been in existence for well over 20 years. Their latest addition is a strch of T gauge right at the back of the layout, I assume representing the North London line EMU sets, which look a little like the class 103 at a distance - admittedly they are about 5' from the viewing public, but apparently the effect is very impressive.

 

Again forced perspective won't give you more running space, however will give the impression that the layout is bigger. Other scenic tricks involve using mirrors where roads or dummy railway tracks meet a backscene, again fooling the eye into thinking that the scene is bigger. Another technique I like, and use on Yamanouchi Oshika, is to try to use the full width of the boards where possible. In my case this was at the yard end, however it is quite a neat effect to have the track in the forground heading from the dual carriageway, with another slightly high-level track in the background running behind the yard. It, again, gives an impression of depth.

 

For winding tracks, it very much depends what you are modelling. For a smaller, perhaps branch line layout, then the tracks can snake all over the place, winding round hills and over valleys. Quite a decent running length can be achieved in a relatively small space. Obviously this may look a little odd if you are running 10-car + trains designed for the main line. A gentle reverse curve, such as on our layout, will give you a little more running length, as well as providing some extra visual interest.

 

If you are an ambitious carpenter, then a multi-layered model is possible. I have seen one model that managed to fit 3 scale miles of track into a largeish (20' x 20' approx) room just by using about 5 layers. Something perhaps of the operation fiend as opposed to a scenic junkie!

 

I seem to rambled on a bit here, but hope a few of these points help...

[David]

From a visual perspective, a popular technique is forced perspective. At its most basic it could involve N Gauge at the front of the layout with perhaps Z towards the back. In view of the range of Z scale stuff available some pretty cool, albeit pricey, effects can be achieved. Why not go the whole hog and have a T Gauge line in the far distance? 

 

Something I've thought about awhile in both Z/T gauge and with B shorty trains is creating doubles - same prototype, just with a different scale/size being substituted using a "tunnel" that leads from the foreground to the background to perform the switch. A neat show layout idea would be a detailed full size 4 track station as the foreground, through which regular and express trains regularly pass. While one side of the station goes into a tunnel to "the rest of the world", the other tunnel appears to curve around into the background, where shortly after leaving the station a smaller scale version of the train is seen traveling through the forced perspective background layer. Incoming trains can also be seen passing through this area before going into the tunnel and then emerging as N scale at the station. With a fiddle yard being used to constantly change the trains (instead of just trains going around in a loop) you could create the impression of a real station experience (this idea might require computer automation to be manageable though).

[marknewton]

A series of long, narrow modules with gently sweeping track...The height of the layout may be a consideration too.  You Tube videos of layouts at eye level seem to suggest a deeper horizon than looking down on a layout.

 

I couldn't agree more, Bill. My old model railroad was a narrow shelf layout about 60" off the floor. At its widest point it was only 24", but it looked much deeper. I was heavily influenced by a book and magazine articles written by well-known British modeller Iain Rice, who has long been an advocate of this style of presentation. I found that combining high level benchwork with view blocks to separate individual scenes created the impression of wide open spaces on a relatively small layout.

 

All the best,

 

Mark.

[scott]

I think I've found the perfect inspiration--located in the house of one Mr Montgomery Burns:

 

The inside of the mansion includes...a model train that takes 3 hours and 47 minutes to complete its circuit and comes back with snow on it,