Kato JR 500 10-510 DCC Digitrax DN163

[KenS]

That's a good point, "front" is arbitrary on most Japanese EMUs, although some of the tourist ones had different cabs on one end or a side that's supposed to face the ocean or other scenic aspect of the trip, and you could use that to designate "front".  But mostly all that matters is that the motor decoder and the cab decoders for the head/tail lights all agree on which end is the "front", and that's up to you.

 

I haven't done any wire-in EMU decoders yet, just the Kato EM/FL ones. And with those the EM only fits one way, and if you get the FRs wrong, you just pull out the FRs and reverse their orientation.

[inobu]

Good to see you chugging along Spiff.

 

Inobu

[Spaceman Spiff]

Against incredible odds I managed to get the motor decoders done in the 100 and 800 Kato Shinkansen motor cars. They also work :) Good thing the soldering is not visible because it is crap not to mention the some of the melting plastic  lol.  I think for the Tomix 0 series I will ask one of the club guys to solder that one as it looks abit more complicated.

 

Now to get the nerve to do lighting of the front & end units.

 

 

Thanks so much to everyone for their help!

 

 

Spiff

[CaptOblivious]

Just make sure that the orange and red leads are soldered to the same side, and the grey and black to the other side. Even that rule doesn't matter quite so much. :D Otherwise, on an MU, it doesn't really matter a bit.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Just make sure that the orange and red leads are soldered to the same side, and the grey and black to the other side. Even that rule doesn't matter quite so much. :D Otherwise, on an MU, it doesn't really matter a bit.

 

The above mentioned quote is for cab lights?

 

Spiff

[KenS]

If Orange and Red are on the right side, the motor will operate correctly when the loco is on DC track.  For a cab-only decoder, you don't have a motor for the orange to connect to.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I haven't looked at TCS instructions or taken a cab unit apart yet. I am sure the questions will be flying then :)

 

 

Spiff

[Spaceman Spiff]

Well thanks to the great info I received from the board my 3 Japanese Shinkansen motor cars are now DCC equipped.

 

inobu, do you have a light board decoder install write up for dummies for the Kato board (like the one pictured)? Looks like it may be difficult for non soldering expert like myself.

 

Is there a way to install the decoder so that I can use one DCC address for the motor car and the two end units? I imagine I would have to "wire" one of the backwards so it displays the opposite lights to match the other two decoders?

 

 

Cheers

 

Spiff

[David]

It depends on the decoder.

 

The Kato FL12 decoder has 4 output pads that provide 2 independent power sources (though only one is on at a time, based on direction). Technically you would wire this decoder "in reverse".

 

Most other decoders you would just reverse them in software - either by setting that decoders normal direction of travel (the first bit of CV29), or by programming which functions are turned on in response to what events, depending on how the decoder works.

[inobu]

Unfortunately there's not an easy lighting solution.

 

The board you pictured is a modified board which divides the lighting board into two LED circuits. The reason you have to divide the board is the original board is designed where the LED shares a common path which allows one LED to operate when polarity is switched on the track. The board is configured where the LED operate based on the polarity on the track. It is like a flop flop circuit.

 

As David posted the decoder has independent outputs which means you need to have independent LED circuits which requires modification to the original board. 

 

There is a lot of un-soldering and soldering involved to get it going and the time and effort which led me to the cost point of spending $50 for lights or converting 2 more units to DCC. I choose to converts the units instead.

 

If I were to do it, I would used the FL12 like David suggested and wire it in.

 

Inobu

[David]

If I were to do it, I would used the FL12 like David suggested and wire it in.

 

 

Unless the board was designed for it, the FL12 doesn't really solve those problems. All of Kato's "DCC Ready" boards that support the FL12 already have the LED leads seperated - instead of 2 DC pads on the light board, which split into seperate paths for the LEDs (with the polarity reversed so only one lights at a time), there are 4 pads on the lightboard, one for each lead. They are arranged so that the positive pad from one LED and the negative pad from the other LED are on the same side of the board (left or right). When under DC power, the brass strip makes contact with both pads, so the LED with the matching polarity is lit. The FL12 decoder fits between the brass strip and the pads. The decoder has a single left and right pad for getting power from the strip, but the underside has 4 pads to match the lightboard - it's a regular Digitrax 2 function decoder with the common wire feeding 2 pads, so it can only turn a function on or off, not reverse polarity.

 

However I think there is a European decoder that supports "dual" polarity output on a pair of function wires.

[David]

There is a lot of un-soldering and soldering involved to get it going and the time and effort which led me to the cost point of spending $50 for lights or converting 2 more units to DCC. I choose to converts the units instead.

 

I'm heading there and my beginners plan has been to just dump any complicated lightboards when I encounter them and substitute my own LEDs (this is almost a must for the Tomix ED75, the 2 lightboards are practicially SMDs laying directly on the split frame for pickup). Thoughts?

[CaptOblivious]

If I were to do it, I would used the FL12 like David suggested and wire it in.

 

 

However I think there is a European decoder that supports "dual" polarity output on a pair of function wires.

 

Not any more. Lenz used to make one. They discontinued it. NGDCC of Japan makes one. You can also use a TCS motor decoder, and use the motor leads to control the headlights (TCS decoders let you control the motor leads with a function, unlike other brands).

[inobu]

I think doing your own boards is the way to go but the time and effort behind them is what gets me. Even after all the designing you still have to buy two decoder to operate the lights and I got lazy with it.

 

I'm kinda waiting/hoping for an easy solution from NGDCC when ever that happens.

 

INobu 

 

 

[Martijn Meerts]

I think doing your own boards is the way to go but the time and effort behind them is what gets me. Even after all the designing you still have to buy two decoder to operate the lights and I got lazy with it.

 

I'm kinda waiting/hoping for an easy solution from NGDCC when ever that happens.

 

INobu 

 

 

 

I've been considering trying to make interior light strips with decoder built right into the light strip, or optionally design some cheap single-function decoder that somehow connects to the official tomix/kato/microace light strips. It wouldn't be that much of a problem creating light board replacements with decoders built in from there either.

 

The problem is, I just don't have the knowledge to design the actual circuitry required, not to mention you'd have to get the correct PIC and be able to program that :)

 

I've tried looking at various open source hardware to see if I can get some basics from there, but with work, Locowerks and my OSX/iOS apps, I just don't have the time to seriously look into it.

[inobu]

Yep,

 

It is time consuming, It is a lot easier when you are in the field, then it is just a "by the way" development. You can squeeze it in between some other job.

 

When you are not in the field what would cost a few hundred dollars turns into a few thousand to get it going. Then you are going from a hobby to a business.

 

Inobu

[Darklighter]

There is a cheap (8-9 Euro) function decoder made by Tams with two outputs that can be programmed to depend on the direction of travel: http://www.tams-online.de/htmls/produkte/fd_r/produkte_fd_r.html (English manual, see p. 52). Unfortunately, it's pretty big (12,5 x 9,5 x 3,3 mm) and I guess, its installation won't be any easier than that of a FL12, but it might be a cheaper alternative...

[Martijn Meerts]

There is a cheap (8-9 Euro) function decoder made by Tams with two outputs that can be programmed to depend on the direction of travel: http://www.tams-online.de/htmls/produkte/fd_r/produkte_fd_r.html (English manual, see p. 52). Unfortunately, it's pretty big (12,5 x 9,5 x 3,3 mm) and I guess, its installation won't be any easier than that of a FL12, but it might be a cheaper alternative...

 

I was actually considering getting one of those to test with for use with internal lighting, but even at 8-9 euro it's expensive considering how many are needed for a 16-car shinkansen =)

[Darklighter]

There is a cheap (8-9 Euro) function decoder made by Tams with two outputs that can be programmed to depend on the direction of travel: http://www.tams-online.de/htmls/produkte/fd_r/produkte_fd_r.html (English manual, see p. 52). Unfortunately, it's pretty big (12,5 x 9,5 x 3,3 mm) and I guess, its installation won't be any easier than that of a FL12, but it might be a cheaper alternative...

I was actually considering getting one of those to test with for use with internal lighting, but even at 8-9 euro it's expensive considering how many are needed for a 16-car shinkansen =)

True that. ;)

 

I saw an interesting how-to on DIY interior lightning today:

http://bastler-hp.de/?option=com_content&view=article&id=373&Itemid=64

http://bastler-hp.de/images/stories/Downloads/anleitung_platine_innenbeleuchtung.pdf

(only in German, but lots of pictures)

Of course, the lights can't be turned off without a decoder, though.  

[Martijn Meerts]

Making an interior light strip isn't that difficult really, it's the decoder bit that's the problem. I've seen light strips with decoder built in, but they were for H0, and overly expensive :)

 

You could ask yourself if it's really necessary to be able to turn on and off interior light of course. The Kato, Tomix and Micro Ace strips generally only have 1 LED, so they don't use a lot of power, nor do they get hot. I guess what I really like is the ability to dim the lights. In most cases, interior light kits are just too bright.

[Guest Closed Account 1]

On a multi car unit on a DC track you can make speed adjustments by motor car placement.

 

Suppose I do acquire a couple powered chassis for the Nozomi.

 

Where are the correct positions in a 16 car consist?

 

One would believe positions #2, #8 (center), and #15 will make for a fast, well balanced consist driving in either direction. I'd only do this with DCC.

[inobu]

Skipper,

 

With DC you cannot control the speed variance between two different unit. Let's say you applied 6 volts to the track, one motor may be faster than the other. The 6 volts may have unit A traveling 40 MPH and unit B may only travel 37 MPH at the same 6 volts. The only way to slow unit A down is to add more cars to its string. So it you had a set of 16 cars you would divide the set in two. Unit A with 7 and Unit B with 7. Unit A would still be faster. Take one car from Unit B's string and add it to Unit A and the extra load may slow it down to 37 MPH (for example). This is what I mean by car placement.

 

With DCC it is different because the speed can be adjusted based on the applied voltage by the decoder. You will program the decoder to apply 3.5 volts at 25% throttle on one decoder (unit A) and it make take 3.8 volts for unit B to travel at the same speed as unit A at 25% throttle. With DCC speed adjustments are programmable.

 

What you want to do with DCC is program both units to travel at the same speed and place them in the middle of the consist. That way they share the load.

 

This is one reason I bought a speedometer for my track, to insure all consist units travel at the same speed

 

Inobu   

 

[Guest Closed Account 1]

This is one reason I bought a speedometer for my track, to insure all consist units travel at the same speed    

 

 

A slot car track Electric Speedometer, gun type, scout watch, or the Nike sensor (6.52g) for your iPod or iPhone? :)

 

 

It sure makes a big difference how you break in a motor, too.

[inobu]

 

http://www.ulrichmodels.biz/servlet/the-490/Speedometer-for-HO-and/Detail

 

 

Inobu

[KenS]

Inobu, does it do metric, or only mph?

 

I'd seen this before, and I'd been thinking about it. Right now I use a stopwatch. But there's very little about it online.