can't get the new layout started

[nik_n_dad]

As our saga continues in the quest for the "bigger" layout, we keep negotiating with mom\the missus for alternative spaces for the layout.  However, it seems that none of the spaces are "ideal" spaces. The image below is the new space and with a couple of options of where the benchwork could go (we could also do a hybrid L-shaped design).  I've been noodling with some ideas but nothing is sticking yet.

 

From the drawing you'll see that we only have 2 usable walls, and even with those, we need to have some sort of aisle (24" is good) to provide access to the built-in book cases.  We can't use 100% of the space- there are a few other things (furniture, etc) that we need to share the room with, and also to still provide access to the guest room, bath room, laundry room, etc.

 

I won't go into a long missive on givens and druthers (I'druther be running trains than talking about building layouts).  But here are a few considerations:

 

- n scale, continuous running, DCC

 

- kato unitrack, with liberal use of the super elevated double track (15" / 16 3/8")

 

- double tracked mainline, probably with no grade

 

- fleischmann turntable

 

- inclusion of a yard

 

- a few industries, a modernesque city

 

- ideally,  a small line (that is either a reversing loop or that stops, tighter radius ok) that has elevation changes that goes to another industry, village, etc

 

We don't model a particular era or geography, but enjoy a very wide variety of trains that range from steam, to modern diesel freight, to Japanese & European bullet trains, to long passenger cars, etc. 

 

Thoughts or pointers to some ideas on how to best use this space and to get me from drawing on the computer to running trains with the kiddo before I'm a grand-dad are appreciated.

 

Mike & Nik

[CaptOblivious]

What are the dimensions on those rectangles?

 

The best place to start is with an oval of track that fills the available space. This is how I started with Shogatsu (my layout). The next step is to ask: what do I find unsatisfactory with this basic oval? And then the design process can start in earnest.

 

In my case, the response was: I need tunnels such that I can surprise my daughter by making a train appear where it shouldn't. And, I would like my layout to span two levels. And, I want to run two trains. Which is what drove my ultimate design, which began as just an oval.

 

Try that, andd see what you end up doodling.

[Mudkip Orange]

ABSOLUTELY I'd go with Option 1.

 

Of course, we all own books that we're not going to crack open anytime soon ("Strategic Management - Concepts and Cases" takes up a full inch and a half on mine), but blocking off the ENTIRE bookcase with a layout is just overkill. With Option 1 you leave at least some of the bookshelves available.

 

Also, presumably you have a couch in this room. With Option 1 you can "float" the couch against the layout, since it's always easy to move when you're working on scenery or need to rescue a stalled train. The one downside is when you have guests over, they'll be tempted to use the layout as a drink holder. You don't want spilled beer on your Nozomi!

[nik_n_dad]

The pink rectangles (benchwork) can be about any size that fits the room.  Key is to keep access to the built-in book cases, the doors, etc (and to share the space a bit for furniture).

 

So for example:

 

"Option 1" could be something like 58-60" x 119", and even add a small "L" from it into the "option 2" space.

 

"Option 2" could be 140-160" x 40" (40" or less), with no options for an "L" into the "option 1 space".  40" is really pushing the width, but that's about what's needed for the super-elevated double track.

 

Odd shapes like "L's", "Z's", "E's" etc are ok too.

 

Thanks

[nik_n_dad]

I'm thinking option 1 with maybe a little of the option 2 is the way to go....now the hard part.... a track plan!  

 

CaptOblivious... can you point me to your track plan?

[Mudkip Orange]

One other thing about Option 1 is it allows you to take over the bookcase later.

 

Obviously you don't want to try that now, because you have limited resources and territorial negotiations are much less rewarding then laying track. But it can't hurt to allow for the *possibility* of future expansion...

 

 

BTW, I'm glad you're still posting here. :)

[KenS]

I like option 1 myself. although more space is always going to be useful, so that's an argument for the L shape.

 

In terms of what to build.  I always start with a "want list" like you did, then try to come up with a concept that can incorporate as many of the features as possible.  With your list, I'd look at one large passenger station (for those "Japanese & European bullet trains, to long passenger cars"), and a freight yard, both on/connected to the double-track main, and a single-track branch line with a few industry sidings and a small one or two-track passenger stop, which can serve as a source/destination for some trains to the main yard/station.  Big trains (bullets or long freights) would just loop on the main back to the main station/yard.

 

From there you have something concrete to base the track plan on, giving you a context in which to answer questions like: is the main an oval, a dogbone, or something else?  How long is the branch, and where does it go?  How many platforms in the main station?  How big is the yard (tracks)?

 

Of course, your concept could be completely different than the above.  It's really just what comes to mind when you think about your want list.

[nik_n_dad]

Mudkip-

 

Can't take over the book cases.  The section between the built-ins that's labelled "access" is the watermain into the house... it's the access panel to shut that all off (and the sprinkler system too), so we can't cut through it with the trains.  The built-in book cases are about 13" deep.  The ones in the corner will be partially used to store all the trains, once we can get rid of text books from 1983. 

 

But I am thinking of an L shape to either make the running of trains more fun, or as a staging yard.

[inobu]

Go modular.  NTRAK it. Build it so you can roll option 2 back under option 1 when not in use. The standards are 2 ft by 4 ft 40 in high. Double the area and roll the NTRAK's under 1 when you are finish for the day. that how they do it at the shows.

 

Inobu

[inobu]

If they can do this in a hall

 

 

You can do it better at home. This is one option you can extended it.

 

 

Inobu

[qwertyaardvark]

I would go with the option 1 position with a possibility of adding a "option 2 position" removable module so that you can get a nice L-shaped layout, but still have access to the bookshelves when necessary.

[CaptOblivious]

I've posted the trackplan to the Shogatsu thread here:

http://www.jnsforum.com/index.php/topic,463.0.html

 

I think an L shape, using the short leg as storage, is a nice idea. KenS also has, in my estimation, good advice. What you haven't said yet, and perhaps just mocking some track you have lying around will help, is how you envision your operating sessions. My goal with Shogatsu, for example, is to set a train running, and let it go in the background in our living room (since that's where it's set up). Occasionally, when the mood strikes, I get up and flip the switches to bring out the second train in place of the first. It's meant to be more atmospheric than absorbing. Perhaps you like the same thing? Or perhaps you enjoy actively admiring your trains as they round that super-elevated curve? Maybe, and this is always good fun, you enjoy actual passenger operations: Making precision stops, pretending to shuttle people from A to B and back to A. Pulling over on schedule to let the express pass. You said you wanted industries, so you perhaps want traditional freight shunting operations too?

 

All of this is doable, but the emphasis you place on particular modes of operation will shape your layout. If you prefer just sitting back and admiring, you will want more long runs and graceful curves (parade curves), with lots of viewing area and angles. This all requires space. If you want to emphasize freight operations then you need to spend fair chunks of space on creating sources and sinks for goods (industries, freight yards). Loco maintenance yards can be surprisingly big too. And stations, especially if you want to use full 16-car shinkansen sets, can be enormous (but they can also be quite small if you are fine running shorter trains!). A layout with two or three stations becomes a spaghetti bowl (which can be very appealing, I don't mean that as a pejorative) as you try to maximize the runs between stations, which cuts into space for yards or parade curves.

 

So, I think the best first step is to prioritize how you want to operate your layout, and much of the rest will follow.

[nik_n_dad]

here's some dimensions on what the table could look like if I went with an "L" (this is the maximum size).  Doesn't have to be an "L" though, and doesn't have to use the space I'm showing, this is more of the max size.

 

As to how we like to play with trains... Nik is 10, so we go alot with his imagination.  We do like to pick up and drop off passengers or freight.  We want to have the turntable so we can show off some of the engines, but also swap them out on a train or add them to a consist...we also need a place to park some of the passenger trains & shinkansens.  If Nik is playing by himself, running one in the background while he is actively (interactively?) playing with another.  Likewise if we are playing together.

 

 

[Mudkip Orange]

What track do you already own?

[nik_n_dad]

we have tons (miles?) of kato unitrack, super elevated double track, ground level single track, viaduct, #6 turnouts.  Most all of our curves are 315mm or larger.  "within reason", we can acquire more track.  Really want to stay with the unitrack.

[Mudkip Orange]

How much viaduct? Any ground-level doubletrack?

[disturbman]

Hypothetically my idea will be this:

 

- Make an around the walls layout

- Re-use one shelf for a short line

- Re-use another for the yard

- Don't block the window and make some removable cassetes to link both side of the layout

 

Now, you have to make out the dimensions. I can't work with the imperial system. 

[qwertyaardvark]

o0o0o0o.... a U shaped layout with a nice long straight runs! [1 user likes this] ^_^

 

This is just me, but I would go ahead and fill in the area where the cassetes are with a removable 52"x40"-ish board/module, so that you can get a continuous terrain from corner to corner, or if u really wanted to keep the bridge-between-two-regions theme, I'd make it a 52" inch wide river to enjoy an impressively long truss bridge.

 

I also imagine the 13" wide bookcases will make an excellent yard; definitely will be able to fit at least 8 parallel lines, though check to make sure the ladder of switches doesn't get as long as the bookcase itself!

 

Not trying to be nitpicky, but i just noticed how out of scale the picture is... ^^;; The 53" wall is about twice as large as the 52" window, and the 82" wall is shorter than the 53" wall... I will advise that having a to-scale picture helps when trying to plan stuff out :)

[nik_n_dad]

Mudkip-

 

#1 we have loads of the ground-level concrete-tie double track

 

disturbman-

 

#1 thanks; I like the thoughts

#2 can't use the book shelves 

 

qwertyaardvark-

 

#1 thanks; I like the idea of continuous background and would rather have a narrow aisle on the wall window

#2 still can't use the bookshelves 

#3 sorry about the out-of-scale drawing.  It was a quick & dirty on powerpoint for another board.  Yes, I go to other boards.  They aren't as nice as you all.  I use railmodeller for design work, just was too lazy to put the prelim room layout into it yet