Card Structures

February 14, 2010

Card Structures (or card stock structures) have always had a great appeal.

The first model railroad structures were made out of card stock and to this day these structures remain popular in Europe, especially Britain and Poland among others. Many British layouts at model train shows have at least some card stock structures. If you have not seen card structures you might think these are merely printed pages on a cardboard shell, but these structures can be amazingly sophisticated detailed 3D buildings.

There are numerous reasons to consider card structures:

Price: Commercially available card structure kits are highly detailed to the extent that the brickwork has a 3D effect to it yet cost a fraction of an equivalent plastic kit.

Many kits are free or one may purchase the "right" to a kit on-line so one can effectively print as many duplicates on their own printers. Imagine a whole city block for the cost of ink and paper. This is a link: http://www.scalescenes.com/ (IMHO, that is a great picture...OK, not Japanese..)

Appearance: Card structures look amazing out of the box as they don't have that plastic shine but rather the colour and tones of the prototype. They are easily weathered, if desired. Brickwork colour is not homogeneous but differs just as the prototype, at least in the better kits.

Assembly: Considerably easier than plastic kits. Not only easy to assemble but don't require painting at all so none at the assembly stage.

Safety: The glues required for plastic kits are quite toxic and smelly, if not dangerous. Not so for card structures.

Shipping/Storage: Card stock kits ship at a fraction of plastic equivalents. And since they weight relatively less they are easy to store.

Weight: enough said..

Kitbashing/Customization: It can be difficult to kitbash, modify or to perform custom changes to plastic kits simply because suitable material cannot be found. Not so with paper...

Versatility: Besides structures, brickwork, roads etc are available in card stock. Also, on-line kits that are meant to be printed can originate in most any scale and then be re-sized to N on our PCs before printing. And if you want a layout that suggests scale you can print buildings in the background in a slightly smaller size... or even print "low relief" buildings (essentially a backdrop with some 3D dimensionality)

Availability: Many kit companies exist but many sites offer freebies..

The list can go on...

Disadvantage of Card Stock: Perhaps the only unique disadvantages to card stock structures is that one may need to "repair" places where the paper has been folded and turned white as a result (which can be achieved with a marker pen); and that it may not be possible to change the colour of the kits. Sometimes inferior gluing leads to problems that cannot be easily rectified, but that is true with any medium. There may be a slight lack of detail in card structures but probably no biggie in N, besides one can always add parts of paper, plastic etc..

I have not researched Japanese card structures or their availability but many structures in Japan look universal.

FAQ

This FAQ is a great introduction but some parts might be out of date:

http://www.cardfaq.org/faq/

Example of Commercial Kits

http://www.metcalfemodels.com/acatalog/Metcalfe.html

OK, this is a British company and not at all Japanese, but I have some of their kits and can answer questions.. and I have their brickwork material, which meets my (low) standards.

Where to buy...

Well, the FAQ, above, mentions companies so one can google vendors. Here is a list of British vendors that might at least be useful for names of product.

http://www.ukmodelshops.co.uk/categories/desc/catG-Building_and_Lineside_Kits

Taskboard

Architectural models are often made in card stock. Here is site and video that might spark interest! http://www.taskboard.com/gallery.html

More Info

There are numerous forums (eg: http://www.zealot.com/forum/tabforumhome.php?tabcat[]=1&tabcat[]=633) and many sites that offer some free kits...http://www.grundschule-pretzschendorf.de/Werken/Weihnachtsberg/weihnachtsberg.html (did not check the scale)..

I recently bought a printer and some card stock so will be experimenting once tax season is over.... I plan to build some commercial kits, print some on-line kits as well as explore the architectural model materials..

Cheers

Rick

February 14, 2010

A bit more card info and links

http://www.philobiblon.com/eisenbahn/scratchbuilding.shtml

February 14, 2010

Some Japanese structures here....

http://cp.c-ij.com/en/contents/2025/list_45_1.html

February 14, 2010

Card models warp in some climates and can warp in the gluing stage also. This is a major disadvantage.

February 14, 2010

Card models warp in some climates and can warp in the gluing stage also. This is a major disadvantage.

Those are broad claims.. can you remotely back them up? Frankly I just don't believe you...

Seasoned card modelers have never remotely mentioned this as a problem.. Even if a slight bit of warping could occur because of ultra unique circumstances one could always do some mild reinforcing - hardly a major problem - at least not with card stock.

In very hot conditions, mixed with very high humidity (or ultra dry weather) I could foresee problems - after all I have seen warped plastic kits!

Does this kit look fragile:

http://www.hippotoys.co.uk/shop/images/PO243.jpg

I have seen the same layout at model train shows for many years and the older card structures look good as new despite long trips in vans, being carried from van to building, being dropped etc....

British layouts, in particular, often have a good proportion of carded structures yet none of the British magazines mention this problem (e.g. Railway Modeller, Hornby)

If you are printing these kits yourself and not using the appropriate card stock then warping may happen, unlikely at the gluing stage, but you can double up on the card stock, get thinker card stock or reinforce....

Frankly, N scale structures are not that large... you could almost just glue a toothpick in the inside as reinforcement.

Next time you are in Ottawa got to the External Affairs building and in the lobby you will see dozens of carded architectural models but no warping and these...

The major medium for architectural models is card stock.... for a reason....

February 14, 2010

Painting a card structure could seem to be a cause for concerns for warping, since the paint wets the paper..

This thread discusses this;

http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=19454&p=295260

Well, it seems this potential concern has little evidence.. and several work-arounds.

Bill, there is a store called The British Connection that will be in your general area this summer at various model train shows. Go view the carded kits, the material etc and ask the vendor.

If one compared plastic kits versus card stock kits, the latter would win hands down on most criterion. There are some shapes that can be best made in plastic so plastic structures will always exist but card stock and alternative materials have made their way into the hobby and appear to be a growing part...

February 14, 2010

Card models warp in some climates and can warp in the gluing stage also. This is a major disadvantage.

Those are broad claims.. can you remotely back them up? Frankly I just don't believe you...

It's a common complaint found on other boards.

February 14, 2010

I am interested in this too. Cannot wait to see more info about it.

February 15, 2010

Thanks to2leo..

Here is a swatch of coloured samples:

http://www.scalescenes.com/test/scalescenes_test_print.pdf

This is a great sampler of the kind of detail available with card stock - each brick a different colour.

February 15, 2010

Rick,

Bill is right they can warp on you, i have seen folks comment on this with card stock modeling. i think its when you use a single layer of cardstock to create a larger wall. the really nice kits (ie like the sankai) tend to build up many layers of a stiff chipboard (not regular cardstock, this stuff is closer to wood than paper) so you get a lot more warping resistance. i use solvent based balsa wood glues when i build mine to avoid introducing moisture into the joints as they could warp a bit on you with some moisture while assembling if its not really stiff chipboard. cheap card stock is just not very stiff. bracing the backside of the main walls with stiffer chipboard or styrene will really solve the potential problem of warping!

really experienced card stock modelers do very built up structures, so warping is not an issue for them.

the biggest problem with card stock buildings in n scale is that unless you do a lot of layering things can look pretty flat. at a larger distance this may not be noticeable, but closer it will start to become apparent. doing alot of hand cutting of window openings really can get tedious and if not done carefully will really show up. the sankai models are great as they are laser cut so you dont have to do all the detailed cutting!

the other problem with printed cardstock models is that if you print them on white card stock you have to carefully color the edges that show or you end up with a bunch of white joints. using colored felt pens can help this, just have to be careful.

card stock buildings are perfect for tscale where you would never really see much in the way of relief detail at even really close distances. also windows at a couple of feet viewing distances with tscale would start to go dark (ie not transparent) so you dont need to cut out windows! in Tscale its easy to then build a small city pretty quickly!

doing card stock pdf models is a hobby in japan. you can find a lot of larger japanese buildings out there with pdf files for free! just need to figure out the size to print them to on your printer! many condo/house developments have paper models of the units so you can build your unit!

card stock modeling is a heated debate out there for model rr. some hate them some love them! to do them well does take quite a bit of care and time. good kits are in the range of costs of plastic kits as well.

cheers

jeff

February 15, 2010

Sometimes forums disappoint... but a picture is worth a thousand words....

http://www.scalescenes.com/images/home_page/main.jpg

Regarding detail: does this really look flat or lacking in detail? When you first looked at it did you think it was a model? Do you see the warp? Do you need extra layering to convince? (And this is print at home model, not a kit from a manufacturer which are of high(er) quality).

If you print a model off the internet (for free) that only has tabs for support, then span it many centimeters without any additional support it will sag or warp. That is far less a problem of the medium as it is unrealistic expectations of the medium; or its just poor design (and that's why its free!). You could easily remedy this with a bit of balsa, double up on card stock, use Popsicle sticks or toothpicks etc...

If you google "card structures warping/disadvantages" etc you get a lot of hits that have nothing to do with card models or you get star trek models out of paper - again an unrealistic expectation. If you search serious sites that question the strength of card models you get common sense answers. e.g.

http://www.zealot.com/forum/showthread.php?p=692426

If you buy a good card kit you will find it to be highly detailed, well designed and quite strong and durable. And it will look superior in many ways to a plastic equivalent.

If you start to see problems, or worse, major problems with a card structure that you printed off in seconds at home for mere pennies then ....

Let's face it, you can easily find arm-chair critics on the internet but when you weed out the those that chronically complain about any random thing based on zero knowledge or experience and then remove those that compare 3 cent paper structures to $50 dollar plastic kits I would love any sage comment/advice that remains...

I'm a bit dim. I would love to see examples of the serious/mature complaints people have with card structures...

February 15, 2010

Rick,

i dont think anyone is saying dont use cardstock models or they are crap. Some cardstock models are fantastic. ones that the real pros do are some of the most detailed models i have ever seen. really nice kits like the sankai do wonderful things w/o even doing any printing. all folks were expressing here are some of the limitations to and requirements of card stock models.

the warping/bowing issue can be dealt with easily, you just need to be aware if the kit has walls of single thin card stock you will want to back it up with something stiffer. if you are going to paint you will also need to be careful in how you go about that. some folks do a lacquer coat first to seal things then paint on that. felt tip markers and paint pens also are nice tools for this. its just that many of the free to middle of the road kits have walls of one card stock thickness. in time this can bow out, really blowing the effect.

the problem comes in when you mix the whole lot together. many kits are very 2D pictures printed on white card stock. while you can come back and brace them well and clean the edges up, unless they do some layering things will look a bit flat. i have tried a couple of these printed mid level kits in the past and not been happy with the look myself. they just end up being a bit boxy and flat. the 3D detail they did do felt very puddgie so you went from very flat to fat and that just hooked they eye more to something amiss visually. these were not the top of the line kits, mind you, but those are expensive and take ALOT of time to cut out and assemble. the cheaper kits dont do much in the way of relief detail and when they do they tend to do it by trying to bend the card stock out. this can be tricky to do and in n scale the smallest thing you can bend is like 1' scale so this 3D detail tends to get blocky. many of the photo printed kits dont do much if anything with layering of walls and such to give some more realistic depth. some of the really detailed kits will provide etched brass details to finish things off. also when bending the printed card stock kits you can also get creases in the printing which at times your eye picks up on.

I did a lot of exhibit and architectural modeling years ago at the monterey aquarium and did scads of chipboard models of exhibits, building interiors and exteriors. some was rough shape stuff, but a lot was detailed stuff that we would shoot photos of that would come out with folks swearing they were real. when you looked at the models from some angles they looked pretty bad and flat, but when you got to the right angles and lighting things would look fantastic. its all in the perspective when you do dont do a lot of relief details on the models. we could even put 2d people (just took photos of folks standing around and then printed to scale and cut them out) in the pictures and if at the correct angle they looked totally 3d, but of course from any other angle they went 2d. this is what those japanese diorama books do, they are a bunch of 2D cutouts you place in different layers so when you look front on it gives a very good illusion of 3D w/o doing any real 3D buildings. these only work well when looking head on and not very good from other angles so for layout modeling dont really work unless way in the back up against your backdrop.

this is to say that printed card stock models that dont have a lot of relief details or larger, out of scale relief details can look great from some angles, but from other angles they can not look so great.

there are a couple of programs out there that will also let you build your own structures. they have all sorts of textures for your walls as well as window, door and other details to put in where you want. they dont provide you with 3D details, but you can add those in via some layering, you just have to get crafty with your layers and cutouts. there are lots of textures you can find out there on the net for free as well. this is a great way to add detail to your other structures as well, using printed card stock to make walls or filler space or some detailed interiors. you can do a lot this way. one of the jrm members is detailing the inside of his kato high rises with offices with desks and people, even some papers on the tables! all our of card stock.

if you get into card stock models you might want to make yourself a bending jig. this is like a metal break where you can have a good straight edge hold on one side of a fold and a flat surface then that makes a nice straight, clean crease. you can make one with two blocks of wood a hinge and a ruler pretty easily.

the only problem i have with card stock structures is that to get them to look nice it does take a lot of very detailed work. if they are not laser cut they you have to have a very steady cutting hand/eye and be willing to stick with it through a lot of detailed cutting. I've see a number of folks find card stock models and dash to them only to find that they are not simple and easy to make detailed models. most that have done a lot of styrene models find the card stock modeling a lot more tedious to get the same results. you can do fantastic stuff with them, but it does take a lot of work and skill to do really nice stuff. its not like throwing a tomytec together. plastic is a whole lot easier to give you that relief detail very easily and is a bit more forgiving in the cut out and assembly.

so im not sneering at card stock models, just giving the ins and outs of doing them as i have done some over the years. I really think the new sankai laser cut kits chipboard kits are fantastic and a step above the usual printout card stock kits. the work on them is mainly in the assembly with little cutting to do, which for some is a necessity if you are not handy with a blade. their relief detail is nice and probably closer to scale than many plastic kits. you also get small details cut that you could never cut with a blade! I also think that card stock modeling with even pretty crude printouts will be fantastic for t gauge. I have downloaded like 50 or japanese buildings so far for this. i printed a couple out quickly on paper and put them together with rubber cement to just see the look of them and from 1' or more away they are stunning even crudely put together! its because at 1/450 scale the relief detail goes away visually at that distance. for the larger stuff some styrene strips or other simple parts added to the exteriors and prepainted will really give it some pop! unfortunately at 1/150 scale your eye catches these details when closer than about 2-3' (which is why some use card stock models at the bases of their backdrops where folks never get very close to them!)

cheers

jeff

February 16, 2010

Here's my two-penneth, for what it's worth!

I have made A LOT of card structures in the past. My start in this hobby was british outline, and as any serious modeller will attest to, whilst you can get many great plastic structures from dapol, fibri, heller and kato (to name a few), none of them are british! Likewise, if you fancy shipping from the US to the UK, you can pick up the Walthers Catalog and pick lots of nice salt mine structures, classic town halls, nice goods depots, but none of them are british either.

So you are left with a select few from hornby, some other smaller companies, scratch build your own, or use card. I know at the time there was no contest for me.

The only warping issues i could forsee (other than the usual "too much glue" issue), is if you left them in direct sunlight for weeks. But then if you are going to do that, you will get fading issues too so warping becomes less of a problem!!!!...

In any case, warping, if it does happen, is very easy to fix, add a little reinforcements here and there and you are as good as new!

February 17, 2010

Lots of materials warp if the conditions are right.

I haven't really built any paper kits, apart from the really crappy paper cutout trains you used to get at the railroad museum in Utrecht. Those weren't meant to last though ;)

I do have a 1/100 scale paper kit of a typical Japanese villa. There's not much detail, not is it very 3d, but I bought it because it shows the interior of old Japanese houses quite well. It's from the same company that make a paper kit of Tokyo Station (which I've had on backorder for half a year or so ;))

I might try some of the Sankei kits at some point, they definitely look good.

February 17, 2010

i was able to snag that tokyo station kit last year from hobbylink! thinking i may do it for tgauge (its close 1/500)!

also have a 1/2500 postcard cardstock of kyoto station that i may try to enlarge for tgauge, might not hold up though!

cheers

jeff

February 17, 2010

As near as I can tell, Sankei paper kits are 2x-3x equivalent Tomytec (assembled) or Greenmax.

February 17, 2010

so far i have found them a toss up. the sankei kits have smaller details like window sills, mullions etc, but have a hard time doing anything curved and hard to do much surface detail w/o adding a lot on your own. they are clean and fine on the detail they have. they are more work to put together and have to be careful if you paint not to soak them.

the nice thing is the mix things up some and give some choice in structures. also gives modelers a choice on the look and how they want to go about their modeling as well.

cheers

jeff

February 17, 2010

i was able to snag that tokyo station kit last year from hobbylink! thinking i may do it for tgauge (its close 1/500)!

also have a 1/2500 postcard cardstock of kyoto station that i may try to enlarge for tgauge, might not hold up though!

cheers

jeff

You must've gotten their last one, I ordered mine at Hobbylink as well ;)

I may end up having to ask you to provide a couple of scans, the main reason I ordered it is to get the dimensions etc, because I want to build it in N-scale =)

February 17, 2010

You must've gotten their last one, I ordered mine at Hobbylink as well ;)

I may end up having to ask you to provide a couple of scans, the main reason I ordered it is to get the dimensions etc, because I want to build it in N-scale =)

Martijn,

it was out of stock for a long while then one month i looked and it was back in stock so i ordered right away!

LOL a couple of years ago when i was toying with trying to use my friends laser cutter out in calif to do some structures i toyed with the idea of doing tokyo station using the cutter. it can cut wonderful brick work and window panes! but i realilzed it was going to be a real load of cad work and put the idea aside. i was planning on scanning the whole thing to have on record in case i build it and then want to try an n scale version later. it would be huge!

ill see if i can scan it next month (im traveling most of this month) and get you a set of them for measurements.

cheers

jeff

February 17, 2010

The more I see card stock the more I like it! I have some HO card kits and really like them. Maybe I am not that good at gluing plastic, or hate the smell or am too lazy to paint structures properly and card stock seems better in these departments to me. I will definitely experiment with card stock and the architecture materials!!

Anyway the SKY IS FALLING: Here are 2 free sky printouts.

Some info: 1243mmx250mm CMYK 300dpi JPG image

http://scalescenes.com/southoakroad/backscenes/grey_sky.zip

http://scalescenes.com/southoakroad/backscenes/blue_sky.zip

I cannot speak for the quality, or the quality if you resize these but hey, they are free!!!

Most Staples (or similar) have printers that can handle this size and they can also laminate them there with matt finish (recommended). So for a few dollars you get a nice addition to your layout...

February 17, 2010

This is a nice site for a mostly card based layout...

http://scalescenes.com/southoakroad/?PHPSESSID=d7b0679570d7c4acb8cd3ffcd7747e2d

There are some interesting links as well. You might not like card and there may be too much brickwork for Japan. But there is a heck of a lot of info with photos and the weathering alone is very convincing!

Its an inspiration for ideas and methods...

Sometimes the terminology is different in Britain, for example their "pavement" is America's "sidewalk"..

Cheers

Rick

February 18, 2010

Found a couple of pictures of the 1/500 Tokyo Station kit.. Hadn't realized there was interior details and everything as well.

Would be interesting building it in this configuration, with this track setup, rather than the current one. From a modeling point of view, it would also fit better into a layout. Tokyo Station as it is now needs about 6 meters in N-scale.

http://www.assiston.co.jp/?item=1460

February 18, 2010

Card models warp in some climates and can warp in the gluing stage also. This is a major disadvantage.

Those are broad claims.. can you remotely back them up? Frankly I just don't believe you...

I don't know what the climate is like where Bill lives, but I can speak from experience that in Sydney, and indeed most of Australia, card structures WILL warp unless you take steps to prevent that happening.

The major medium for architectural models is card stock.... for a reason....

That's an equally broad claim. I moonlighted for an architectural practice for about 15 years, at no time was card a major part of my modelling repertoire.

All the best,

Mark.

February 18, 2010

I moonlighted for an architectural practice for about 15 years, at no time was card a major part of my modelling repertoire.

All the best,

Mark.

Mark,

just curious what kinds of stuff did you use for your architectural modeling?

cheers

jeff

February 18, 2010

Jeff, depending on the brief, anything and everything!

A lot of what I built were simple study models - our practice called them massing models - these were nearly all made of blue extruded styrene foam. I could form the basic shape of the building very quickly by carving, sanding or hot-wire cutting. Then I'd spray it a neutral grey with acrylic paint. If the site wasn't level, I would use either foam or laminations of card to build up the basic contours. On many projects only massing models and renderings were needed for the DA to be approved.

For more detailed presentation models, my preference was to use acrylic sheet - Plexiglas - to make the carcass of the structure, and then skin it with ABS or styrene. Acrylic sheet and ABS glued with CA/superglue goes together very quickly, and can be immediately drilled, sanded, cut or trimmed. Details could be anything from Evergreen styrene through basswood or cast resin to etched brass.

The skills and techniques applicable to architectural modelling are no different to those used in railway modelling, with perhaps the obvious exception that there's always a deadline, so I was always looking for the quick and dirty way to do something.

All the best,

Mark.

Card Structures

Recommended Posts

Hobby Dreamer

Link to comment

Hobby Dreamer

Link to comment

Hobby Dreamer

Link to comment

bill937ca

Link to comment

Hobby Dreamer

Link to comment

Hobby Dreamer

Link to comment

bill937ca

Link to comment

to2leo

Link to comment

Hobby Dreamer

Link to comment

cteno4

Link to comment

Hobby Dreamer

Link to comment

cteno4

Link to comment

Darren Jeffries

Link to comment

Martijn Meerts

Link to comment

cteno4

Link to comment

Mudkip Orange

Link to comment

cteno4

Link to comment

Martijn Meerts

Link to comment

cteno4

Link to comment

Hobby Dreamer

Link to comment

Hobby Dreamer

Link to comment

Martijn Meerts

Link to comment

marknewton

Link to comment

cteno4

Link to comment

marknewton

Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

Create an account

Sign in