Kato D51 (1-203) - Issues and Reviews

[kusojiji]

Wow, check out all your paint people in the grandstand! haha. Will be sending Kato some feedback on this model - good idea. They probably won't give a crap anyway. I'll get the "speak to the hand".

[Kamome]

Whether they listen to it or not is up to them, but still valuable to give constructive feedback about your experiences with the model rather than a rant about company processes or anti-Kato sentiments which will definitely just go to junk.

 

As for the paint stand, my work desk was filled with an RC body so had to photograph on my side table. Vallejo is my paint of choice for buildings and figures although I can only get it in Volks and the stand is way better than my previous system of thrown in a plastic Daiso box, apart from the regular dusting. 

Edited May 6 by Kamome

[kusojiji]

Well, feedback submitted. Contacted Amazon on my refund as they received the model 2 days ago and my orders site hasn't been updated. I've already got plans to blow it on another 2-3 models... aargghh!

[cteno4]

Good feedback to a manufacturer can have an impact. Best to approach it not from a pissed off attitude, but one of you are a loyal customer and so wanted this engine to work for you but were so saddened it did not and here are the problems I had. This is probably even more true of a japanese company to respond well to this approach than a fuming email that will let them flush the response as just irate and rude. The clearer and calmer you can present the issues and things that were creating the problems the more they might get looked into.

 

jeff

[kusojiji]

Yup, I kept the emotion out of it. Just the facts of what the issues were as observed. Didn't give them any advice or blasting. hmm, must be mellowing out or something haha.

[cteno4]

Good on ya! Yeah it’s hard to do that when that’s happened but it’s about the only thing that might have some effect, you never know.

 

jeff

[kusojiji]

Their response: 

 

Thank you very much for your valuable feedback.

We are sorry that we could not meet your expectations in spite of your purchase of the D51.

We will report your feedback to our quality department.

 

We look forward to your continued patronage of Hobby Center KATO.

[sakuya]

On 5/5/2025 at 8:26 AM, Kamome said:

If you get no joy with the dealer, the manufacturer will assist I’m sure. I had this with Yodobashi who didn’t respond to any of the emails at all. Perhaps if i’d taken it in to a physical store they would’ve refunded or replaced but their website suggests you have to contact them first to return web purchases. 

Tomix after care sorted that particular issue. 

 

Best thing is to also report any faults to Kato directly even if their response is a generic, “talk to your retailer.”If they get enough responses, they’ll have to take action if there’s a common fault or issue with the design. 

 

Mine arrived and thanks to the above information, i looked over it before applying any power to it. Everything looked fine, a couple of detail parts had dropped off in transit, all clipped back on. Checked, ok, although the copper wires on the drawbar were touching on delivery and I bent them slightly with a cocktail stick. The tolerances here are very small. Kato should really redesign this part if nothing else. The wires feel way closer than their N scale counterparts. 

Power applied, nothing, nudge, nothing, then sprung into life.  I had a look at the pins on the running gear and there is a lot of play. Similar to their N scale. Impressions are good so far but I will keep monitoring for anything that could bind up the movement. I’ve only been running it back and forth in slow mode so haven’t run in anger at a decent pace yet. 

 

The workings are certainly not on par with Tenshodo plastic models but seem adequate. Having seen some non-Quantum Tenshodo locos being in this price point a few years ago, I feel slightly underwhelmed. Time will tell if it holds up but this is typical Kato balance between price point and quality. The only take away is that Kato parts are usually readily available if anything goes awry after acceptable warranty expires. 

 

The box is your regular Kato affair, be it more a Tomix loco size,but has a lot of foam, way more than usually packed so they’ve obviously struck a balance on solving the issue based on what they have available rather than what they needed.  It’s relying on the pressure around the outer foam to keep the loco suspended. This is the case from new but it could start compressing then your loco is stored pushing against the right side running gear and boiler details. Again time will tell but an ice cube type package may have been better. 

 

My takeaway

 

This is not a terrible model, it runs nicely (so far so good)  Had I paid the full ¥55,000 for it and parts, I might’ve wished I’d just paid a little more and gotten a Tenshodo D51. At ¥38,000 all in, it’s a pretty good deal. I can understand the expectation not being met for those who commented and comparing it to other overseas options, you can get some much better options for the money. Being a Japanese steam engine for this price point, I feel it’s actually pretty reasonable. I will hold off any detailing until I’m satisfied it runs without any issues based on others experiences. 

 

The detail pack is a rip-off. Kato have definitely had the idea you can charge extra to HO customers. ¥5000 for what’s here is robbery considering what else you could get for the same value. 2 small sprues, one glazing piece, one dry rub decal sheet and one small sticker sheet of overhead wire warning signs. Bundling it in with the cost of the loco, I still feel overall it’s an acceptable price point but on its own it should’ve been ¥2000. I may write to Kato to express my thoughts. Maybe there’s some pricing strategy here but it does leave a slight bad taste. Personally, I would’ve liked a few more funnel options and some other numbers to customize the loco and what’s here should have come with the loco really.  In essence, i can see most just adding the majority of the details as they paid for them to maximise its ROI. There doesn’t appear to be any information to inform you where to put many of the dry rub decals, only the ward shed plates, so some photo reference or further knowledge of the particular loco you want is necessary. 

 

On the left is what came with the loco on the right the detail pack.

 

Anorak Alert

On the subject of add on parts, ironically none of the loco numbers included with the loco seem to have been fitted with the majority of included parts in the add on pack, at least from the various images I’ve come across. Perhaps it would’ve been far better to have regional localisation packs with suitable options to add for whichever region was your interest. I feel this is where a few 3rd party companies will start producing parts to rectify this oversight. 

Alright, so, there should be minimal play.  Try to click the pins in place.  Nothing to fret about, and probably fine.  Sounds like you may already have.

[kusojiji]

Mine had what seemed to be a lot of play. My n-scale stuff also has a lot and when I put my C62 back together, the pins definitely had to go in quite far to keep them from interfering with everything else that was trying to move.

 

Now that I have this extra grade up kit, I think I see a few applications for it. There are a couple of lamp lenses and the secondary lamp that I might be able to put light through, the round thing that looks like a smoke box door and the 3 extra handles, a couple of shovels, snow plow. Yeah, will deploy these elsewhere.

[Kamome]

Yes, I am going to leave off the funnel parts (rotating spark arrestor) and try and source a smoke collector for it instead. Failing that I will just remain with the basic funnel. I quite like the look of it with the snowplough so might add this. I have seen some pictures of a few locos pulling freight on the Sanin main line fitted with snowploughs.  As for the other bits, I will add the various boxes (oil pump/compound feeder)that fit alongside the boiler as well as one of the reverser rod covers. It seems relatively easy to remove the cab and I intend to add some crew as well as paint up some of the moulded detail. The cab end of the boiler section actually has some nice gauge details which I think once painted will lift the model a lot if you look into the cab. The cinder blocker that fits under the firebox door, I haven't found images of these on any other than Hokkaido locos. If anyone can shed further light on if these were used elsewhere other than Hokkaido. I added the tender sprinkler pipe to the rear of the cab roof but am less enamoured with the cab hanging rings. I may use them but they need the hole drilling in them first. Again this may be a detail I pick up from the likes of Imon.  Bit disappointing. I did add the steam heating pipe to the rear of the tender too, in case I decide to pull some coaches.

 

The other details are the dry rub decals and warning stickers. My intention is to add the overhead wire warnings stickers to the top of the tender ladder as well as below the headlight on the firebox door. It seems some locos also had warning signs on the boiler dome too and I want to represent a loco from the 60s/70s

 

As for the dry rub transfers which there is zero info about in the instructions. I actually looked at my N scale version to see where to put stuff as well as kitekinet.jp. being a great source. I will possibly add a makers plate, but definitely inspection info and ward plate to the sides as well as the relevant marks to the air tanks above the driving wheels. There is also a tender plate that goes below the rear number plate. The conversion plates I need more info but I would assume ageing locos would have have these.

 

Eventually as a freight loco, I want to dirty it up quite a lot. There are some pretty sorry looking locos towards the end of their usage in the early 1970s, corroded piping and brake blocks on the underside and a lot of soot and other dirt on the top of the boiler and cab. I will add some coal material to the bunker and possibly some remnants on the coal shoot. I also need to find some info on where the shovels and other tools were stored when not in use.

 

The most useless addition IMO in the kit is the red marker lights, produced in all black plastic. Would have been nice to add some clear red plastic to at least represent these a little better. Again it's something I will leave off until I find a suitable alternative from a 3rd party. Would have been nice to add some taillights to the tender but Kato missed quite a few details to make the loco that little bit better. I'm sure a few products will be released to upgrade the Kato D51 even further from the likes of Fuji Model or similar.

 

I did express my disappointment at the upgrade set to Kato. The EF81 one added a good amount of extra detail on the loco whereas the D51 one felt very rushed and cobbled together. I sort of hope Kato decide to use this as a base and produce a few options. A slug would be welcome or even produce rotating window glazed pieces for cold weather versions. If Kato do a slug, they should just take my money now. I sort of envisage some regional detail parts in the future 

[kusojiji]

I would really like to see how you detail the cab, so if you would please?

 

Yeah, the grade up kit is a total waste. I had high hopes that it would really increase the impact (?) of the model. 

 

All of the photos that I have seen of the D51 have all been old black and white, so they all look kind of nasty. No real help there. i have a lot of charcoal dust in my weber if you need some 🙂

 

If you haven't seen this yet: https://d51498.com/db/  Degoichi runs well!

 

Wow, in my search, I found this; https://www.oldtokyo.com/j-g-r-j-n-r-steam-locomotive-evolution-1872-1948/ Just renumber some of the UK models.

 

https://www.steamlocomotivejapan.com/ neat stuff.

 

You going to try to get that rear lamp to work?

 

[Kamome]

I didn’t do too much, just highlighted a few details in case you see into the cab between the eventual crew. It’s certainly way off what some of the new detailed cabs the UK manufacturers are adding to some of their locos. 

 

The image I used actually had the inside of the cab painting pale green  as you can see from the block that houses a collection of valves. Not sure I will go far enough the paint the inside of the cab shell. 

 

Edited Friday at 01:05 PM by Kamome

[kusojiji]

This is why I got started in the UK market. And check out that drawbar power. I've seen multiple connector type drawbars for the decoder in the tender solutions. I was going to try to adapt that to the D51...

 

The utube isn't good for my wallet.

 

 

Edited Friday at 10:07 PM by kusojiji

[Kamome]

Yes, the British locos were beautifully decorated and the drivers were like astronauts at a certain point in history, travelling faster than almost anyone else in their iron machines.   Sadly none of the reference material I found had any extravagant colours and everything was subdued and functional in colour. Nor was any detail that pronounced to really go to town. I did paint the pipes in a rust colour although they are actually in the shadow in my original photo.  That gauge detail is very nice in your loco.  In the D51, the seats are part of the body weight just like their N scale version. That was very difficult to get a crew in so I hope I can do it with the HO ones when they arrive.



Perhaps N Hut will produce a detailing set eventually. 

Edited Saturday at 10:06 AM by disturbman
formatting issues with pictures. Added line jumps

[kusojiji]

Oh yeah, looking good! Every little bit helps. With the shallowness of the casting, painting the pipes, valves and gauges are a real challenge. You seem to have a steady hand and good eyes to go with that. 

 

Yeah, I do have the crew that I ordered back in Oct. I may just stick them in my EF65...

[kusojiji]

1 hour ago, Kamome said:

travelling faster than almost anyone else in their iron machines

You know, the one thing that gained my interest is the size of their drivers. They really looked like they could go fast with their drivers looking so big and the rods being so close to the centers. However, when I compared them to the UP Northern at 80 inches, most didn't come close. But, they look awesome.

 

I haven't invested in one of their passenger locos yet but am still looking. Seems that I gravitate more towards freight, but I use them to pull passengers anyway. 

[Kamome]

Continuing with detailing, there really is a lack of information on where to put things with the detailing pack, or which areas used which particular parts. I ended up using a standard version  N gauge D51 for reference for most of the build.  Here’s a reference of the minimal detail I painted in the cab. (cab removed)

Satisfied it seems to be running, I have now added coal to the tender along with the fireman’s tools to give the lack of depth, a little more depth if that makes sense. I’m sure the shovel would fall onto the tracks if positioned here in real life but hopefully creates some interest. The stoking rod also has no hanging points so though I’d lay it here as to not cover other recesses details. Artistic license and all that. As mentioned, I have also removed the cab to next apply most of the dry rub decals as I think it will be easier to position everything. Still haven’t numbered it yet but have decided on 341 as it was in the Sanin area. I think the most challenging of the dev rub decals will be on the air tanks as they are slightly hidden by other paperwork. There are also cylinder inspection numbers although these look much larger than the photos i’ve seen. 

[kusojiji]

Wow, awesome! Was it difficult to remove the cab? Seemed like a lot of piping and details in the way. That big screw holding the body on? The two coreless motors gotta be tied together. Really wish they would include a parts breakdown with their models. I've been looking at my circa '95 HO GP35s and they all have parts breakdown included. None of the new stuff does nowadays.

 

BTW, Kato sent me an email. Parts are in stock for this thing. https://www.e-katomodels2.com/shop/c/c10020201/ You can get a power unit for approximately the same price as what the retailers list for the entire unit... 😞

 

BTW again, what is N hut?

 

Edited yesterday at 04:15 AM by kusojiji

[Kamome]

3 hours ago, kusojiji said:

Was it difficult to remove the cab?

Not really. The roof piping had to be removed and then the 2 flexible pipes running the top of the boiler fit into little eye holes on the cab front.  I’ve ordered a crew but seems to be taking a while. Once the pack arrives it is the last thing to complete. I’ll probably enjoy just running it for a while digesting a lot of steam weathering tutorials before I succumb. I was hoping to disassemble but I think i’d be pushing my luck a bit.

[kusojiji]

Yep, get some run time in and enjoy it. You need some charcoal ash? I got plenty in my grill. Your loco might smell like steak though haha.

[Kamome]

Have experienced a few more intermittent failures to run since detailing. I have concluded that it’s the contact clips that fit to the light board, 4 in all. I had to fettle a little more and crimp the clips slightly. The motor wires are extremely fine so some gentle persuasion was required. I will continue to monitor this but otherwise i may have to solder the contacts. 

 

Kato HO locos can be plagued by this issue as they design everything as push fit which means you don’t always get a secure contact.

[kusojiji]

You actually dug in to the lightboard area? That sucks that you are having to fix that.

[Kamome]

I didn't require too much digging. The body is easily removed once you have taken off the cab. The screw in the cab releases the boiler body and the whole thing can be removed sliding the the body slightly forward. Just need to be careful with the reversing rod parts  The front coupler assembly is a hindrance if you've already attached the snowplough, so I had to remove the front wheel by taking off the brake pad parts on the underside and sliding arm for the pony wheel forward. Then I could remove the front coupler as the body with snowplough fitted won't fit over the knuckle.

 

The light board has 4 contacts. I'm not sure of the full construction of the model, but looks like it could possibly have 2 small motors. If that is the case, there must be some kind of primitive differential to the dual fly wheels as the mechanism worked with only 2 motor contacts connected. I didn't venture further into the breakdown as I couldn't see how some of the plastic pipework removed from the chassis block and didn't want to risk breaking anything.

 

The motor contacts slide over the contact points on the light board, attached to it with a tab joiner in the shape of a capital "B" This is where I assume the problem is, a couple of tabs able to slid off and on quite easily. As mentioned I crimped them a little more and they fit more securely. Further failures will result in them being soldered.

 

2 hours ago, kusojiji said:

That sucks that you are having to fix that.

Actually I have had a few HO locos with a similar issue from Kato.  There's a few nuances with them.  Work fine out of the box, but something not fully secured and suddenly the model has no power. I have an EF65 and EF58 and both have had issues with contact connections. On these locos the pickup wires from the bogies fit under a fold down tab on the lightboard that can work themselves loose after a while.  The more recent EF510 and EF81 don't have this issue due to their twin bogie mounted motors.

I sort of don't mind a little bit of tinkering if its a quick fix, but I agree this really shouldn't be an issue on a brand new model. If I would've had to send it away, that would be way more bother. I sort of like to see how it goes together in case something else goes and I need to dismantle it.

[kusojiji]

The literature says two motors. If one wasn't working, I guess it was being dragged along with the coupling. Yeah, that clip for the leads leaves alot to be desired. If one of the bogies isn't passing the battery test, then I check those leads. 

5 minutes ago, Kamome said:

If I would've had to send it away, that would be way more bother.

Yeah, that's why I have 1 model in its box and the other needing additional work. I didn't know how to send stuff back to the UK from here, so I performed surgery. At least Accurascale is still willing to work with me on this. They have sent me two wheelsets for both my P class locos.

 

I have since figured out Japan Post and have sent 3 back so far. 1460 yen for a 385 gram box (n scale loco). Rails of Sheffield reimburses the return shipping cost.

[kusojiji]

 

DCC installation. I didn't realize that the tender is a scaled up version of the n-scale one so exactly. The brakes come off and then the trucks the same way. 

 

Hope this helps. Just turn the volume down...

Edited 5 hours ago by kusojiji