Kato D51 (1-203) - Issues and Reviews

[Kamome]

If anyone has pre-ordered and is currently waiting to receive the slightly delayed HO D51, here is a good video comparing the original (1-202) and the new version (1-203)

 

I prefer the funnel on the older one but there does look to be a little more detail, even without the upgrade set. If anyone paid the full ¥5000 for the upgrade pack, I think you're going to feel a little robbed considering all that's in it. I paid ¥3500 and feel short-changed although I can make a better judgement when mine arrives, assumedly after Golden Week. Must have cost Kato very little to produce these additional parts although grouped in to the price of the loco, you're still getting a smooth running big steam loco in a similar price point to Dauphin Tramway steam engines.

 

 

[kusojiji]

Got mine 2 days ago. It is very heavy. Had to look at the upgrade kit after watching that video. I didn't realize that it came with the secondary headlight. Was all happy until I looked at the instructions. You have to cut the angle into the stanchion for it to follow the boiler curve. Ah no.

 

So mine developed a rod knock going backwards. She must have 8 hours running time by now. Found that the second wheel pivot was hitting the connecting rod while going around curves. Had to clearance it by bending the rod a bit. I'm guessing my handling may have caused it although I am very careful and flip it over while carrying it to prevent any pressure on the motion. I guess this stuff isn't very strong. Runs awesome otherwise.

 

Wrote to Kato about a parts diagram so that the loco can be taken apart for DCC. They won't give it up and said that they are working on DCC models for the future. I asked if they were going to retrofit the current model or should I return the one that I just bought. I totally misunderstood that one! I'm thinking it'll be DCC fitted and not DCC ready.

 

So, we're on our own on that. I hope someone tackles it soon.

 

This thing has a ton of add on details. There are some that came with the loco in a bag and the grade up kit adds more. I'm starting to think that a lot of details and too much details are two things to consider. I'm starting to think that I am a Hornby Railroad kind of guy as I am afraid of handling these things.

 

 

Edited Thursday at 09:02 AM by kusojiji
added more stuff

[disturbman]

The new D51 isn't DCC-ready. Kato removed the DCC socket that was present in the previous version (1-202).

Also, a Discord user reported this:
 

Quote

There is a screw behind the geared driving wheel. Tighten it. I was starting my break in and my mechanism locked up and my gears started grinding on a straight track because this screw was loose, allowing the drive gear and worm gear to separate.

Edited Thursday at 10:06 AM by disturbman

[kusojiji]

Yep, there's a big  hole for the speaker in the tender though... haha

 

I also found the base keeper plate screws to be loose, but have not developed an issue yet from it. While troubleshooting my rod knock issue, found that the piston guide is loose on the ticking side. Loco is currently sitting upside down in my maintenance cradle vice running on my track.

 

Too many issues at this early stage. Since I  bought from Amazon, there is no service for it. I wrote to Kato about warranty. Saw that the Kato US site states 60 days. Pretty sad as compared to the UK products.

Edited Thursday at 10:17 PM by kusojiji
repeating myself...

[disturbman]

That's surprising. Curious to see if we will hear more people finding issues with their models.

That's the problem of buying via big retailers. You won't get any specialized help. Which is fine for cheap things, but for fragile items with movable parts like scale models, you quickly hit the wall if something goes awry.

[kusojiji]

Well, I'm done with this one. The drawbar design is the same as their n-scale stuff, which works fine for that, but was poorly executed on this model. There is only one tiny tab in the middle of the run that kept the two conductors separated. Mine would run and then start shorting out.

 

This model seems to have been a compromise to get something out quickly with minimal engineering. They used technology that they had developed for their n-scale stuff and upscaled it vice engineering something at this scale from the bottom up. The tender design is also similar to their n-scale models. I don't know about the loco body as that's too much fine detail to get into.

 

I am very disappointed and truthfully, heart broken that Kato has put something like this out. I apologize to those who have this on order for painting a terrible picture. I hope you receive a model that you enjoy. You'll find that the flywheel effect is very impressive. Cut power and it keeps moving forward for at least half its length at mid speed. It is geared for a freight loco and starts moving at very low voltage. It has a lot of detailed parts and looks awesome. The cab is standard stuff and does not compare to the UK stuff, but you may be able to detail it.

 

I just wanted to provide info on what you may encounter.

 

Oh BTW, here's the box that it came in. Paper box with nice formed foam. There is a foam cover that goes on top. Not real good...

[sakuya]

On 5/1/2025 at 4:58 AM, kusojiji said:

Got mine 2 days ago. It is very heavy. Had to look at the upgrade kit after watching that video. I didn't realize that it came with the secondary headlight. Was all happy until I looked at the instructions. You have to cut the angle into the stanchion for it to follow the boiler curve. Ah no.

 

So mine developed a rod knock going backwards. She must have 8 hours running time by now. Found that the second wheel pivot was hitting the connecting rod while going around curves. Had to clearance it by bending the rod a bit. I'm guessing my handling may have caused it although I am very careful and flip it over while carrying it to prevent any pressure on the motion. I guess this stuff isn't very strong. Runs awesome otherwise.

 

Wrote to Kato about a parts diagram so that the loco can be taken apart for DCC. They won't give it up and said that they are working on DCC models for the future. I asked if they were going to retrofit the current model or should I return the one that I just bought. I totally misunderstood that one! I'm thinking it'll be DCC fitted and not DCC ready.

 

So, we're on our own on that. I hope someone tackles it soon.

 

This thing has a ton of add on details. There are some that came with the loco in a bag and the grade up kit adds more. I'm starting to think that a lot of details and too much details are two things to consider. I'm starting to think that I am a Hornby Railroad kind of guy as I am afraid of handling these things.

 

 

Right, so I got mine Tuesday and have had similar issues.  I go about new trains the same way every time.  I set up a loop of track with fairly broad curves on a freshly vacuumed floor and let the locomotive run forward for a few hours on a lower speed then backwards.  On the first loop, I experienced problems with a short, but these were from the tender so I removed the tender to repair it really quickly.  Unfortunately as I finished, the locomotive locked up, leaning slightly to the side, less than 1 degree but still something I could see.  Because I watched it happen.  That's why first runs have to be such low power I suppose.  I removed and details on the bottom covering the screws to find the bottom plate was noticably loose and the screws not tightened, particularly the one next to the powered axel could be spun without a screwdriver at that point.

 

Due to the nature of the incident, I am planning to inspect the drive gear and worm gear before reassembly but the rod knocking could be what I experienced as well.  It sounds like Kato may have pushed out a lemon which is sad, particularly since my C56 was a fair bit more durable.  (It has evidence of surviving a fire from a previous owner)

[kusojiji]

Sucks doesn't it? Spend so much money on this with high hopes. Yeah I did the same with the short by removing the tender. You see how pathetic the wiring is on the drawbar?

 

You got a C56? Nice!!! So yours comes with authentic smoky scent? 🙂

 

You know, I never thought about doing a run in until I started buying UK models. Dapol, Hornby, Accurascale and Rapido. It's funny how they word it. From the Rapido J70 manual:

 

"Your loco has been tested at the factory to ensure proper operation... for about 30 seconds. That is not enough time to get the gears to mesh nicely or to even out any jerky operation in a new motor or gear train."

 

So I am now in the habit of "running in" a loco for at least an hour. 30 minutes in each direction with 10-20 minutes at 1/4 power, 10-20 at 1/3 power and 10-20 at 1/2 power of my MRC tech 3 and then reversing direction.

 

What the UK manufacturers offer is a meaningful warranty. Kato came back to my email and said that there is no warranty for railway models. 

 

This really puts my interest in this hobby at risk now. The UK models have 3-life warranty, looks awesome, sometimes run like crap. Kato most of the time runs awesome, looks awesome but no warranty.

 

Sorry for the drama 🙂

Edited Friday at 12:13 PM by kusojiji

[Kamome]

Box is typical Kato unfortunately. Mine is currently on route and should be with me tomorrow. DCC was not a concern for me and considering all the other new tooled locos, I wasn’t expecting it either. I can appreciate it really should be the norm in this day and age, but Japan doesn’t change things very quickly. 

 

Kato trains do have a tendency for things to shift or drop off during shipping so this info helps a lot to check it over fully before running. As it’s essentially a larger version of the N scale one, it’s likely copper contacts etc may need checking but I have also had binding issues due to loose screws on running gear with a couple of other Kato n scale SLs in the past. 

 

I saw a friends and yes the cab is very basic, but again that’s Kato. The other details look pretty good and to be honest the cabs on a black steam engine are not that easy to see into anyway.  Hopefully I can fit a crew to hide the lack of interior a little.

Not sure he has experienced any running issues with his but I’ll check in with him and look over mine fully. 

 

Having seen it, i’ll definitely add some real coal and paint a few details as well as eventually weather mine, QC issues permitting. Let’s hope it’s not a total lemon and there are just a few things to check over when they’re received. I certainly would be disappointed if I’d paid ¥49500  +¥4950 for the extra details from what i’ve seen already but prices are getting less attractive year by year. I bought my D51 at the standard 30% reduction so hope it meets my expectation. The Yume Kukkan set also disappointed on price point despite it being a nice set of coaches.

 

The UK 00 market is pretty buoyant and with a few new manufacturers like Accurascale and Cavalex pushing on the level of detail and playability,  these days it’s phenomenal what you can do. Accurascale have had a few batch loco issues though.

 

Japan HO is still a bit stuck in a time warp. Certainly if DCC is a primary consideration, most Japanese HO will disappoint. Tomix locos are in the ¥40,000-¥60,000 price bracket these days and have no more playable features than the n scale equivalents for a 5th of the price. Not even working tail lights in most cases and they haven’t adopted any DCC functionality at all. The Zoukei Mura DD54 is more modern with working head, tail and cab lights with an 18 pin DCC cradle but even that’s quite old technology compared with working fans, servo driven pantographs, day and night running lights that you get on newer UK models. 

 

Other than that, it’s the likes of Imon or Tenshodo that offer DCC and sound in HO 1/87 and HOJ 1/80 but you’re paying a hefty premium for the privilege of exquisite brass models. 

[disturbman]

@Kamome I'm curious to hear if yours suffer similar issues.

@kusojiji Who did you contact again? And where did you buy the model exactly?

Unfortunately, self-importing more or less voids any warranty the companies offer in Japan. Customer service (repairs and exchanges) goes through dealers in Japan. If you want after sale service, use a dealer local to you or a smaller Japanese dealer that you know will help you with that sort of issues - if you are willing to pay for extra shipping.

[Kamome]

@disturbman I’ll keep you posted. The only issue i’ve had so far is the feet dragging on its dispatch before Golden Week.  Think Sagawa have estimated it will arrive tomorrow so I’ll look over it properly and report back. As Kato are often clip fit, it is likely that parts become misaligned in transit. Think we’ve all received n scale trains with bogies hanging off, and that even occurs with domestic shipping. 

[kusojiji]

I have a crew and the detail kit that are going to have to wait for the next iteration if I continue. Am seriously considering canceling all of my pre-orders. I have been dealing with a lot of cr@ppy stuff coming from the UK. I had been pushing for Kato products since they were very excellent quality. Now, I am totally disgusted with them as well. The last C62 that I bought in Sep 2024 wobbled like a weeble. I didn't run it at all.

 

The only things that have been consistent for me are the 3d printed stuff that I put on the 11-109 chassis. I just add some weight and it pulls a ton. On the HO side, US prototypes with multiple wheels and weight. I have a ton of C44-92, GP35, SD40s that I haven't run in years. That may be the wave of the future for me now.

 

Again, sorry for the drama. I feel like throwing up.

Edited Friday at 01:16 PM by kusojiji

[sakuya]

I'll probably go through Kato USA if I discover a faulty part.  But if this is what Kato H0 steam will be in future, I'll stick to vintage and Tramway... Where it exists.  I already reached out to Plaza Japan, my vendor for this 

[disturbman]

@kusojiji without wanting to ruffle your feathers, I very much understand your disappointment, but you are overreacting. I don't know how deep you went with your pre-orders, but there is no reasons to cancel them.

Japanese model manufacturers do sometimes design lemons, or something goes wrong at the factory and they have to issue a recall. It also happens that some specific individual models are not up to normal standards, but that's not the Japanese standard. The standard is a model that will reliably run for long hours out of the box.

 

Two things that come to my mind:

1. If you need to be able to send your model for repairs, buy from retailers that can provide you with that after sale service and do not self-import from big retailers. You will pay a higher price, but you will get the service you are now missing.

2. You seem interested in having models with some features that are not common for Japanese ready-to-run H0 models (DCC, high level of details, proper packaging). If that is what you are looking for, you should probably still look around for other manufacturers/markets to buy from, like Chinese manufacturers.

You and @sakuya might have been unlucky with your D51s, or that model is specifically problematic. We still don't know where that one falls down.

[sakuya]

I have had the chance to look over the model a bit, and I can confidently eliminate packaging as the fault.  I have attached an image of the locomotive with its plate removed in the position it was in when it seized up.  The rear driving axle has enough give to shift side to side (as you would hope) but the size of diameter of the axle is not uniform throughout.  This is the case on every axle however the front and second does not have enough sway due to the modeled running gear.  The third doesn't have enough sway due to the actual gear.  Only the fourth can sway far enough to the side to become unseated, likely on curves in most cases, but could unalign on a straight.  The problem is slightly more pronounced on the left side.   Because of the way track tends to work, shy of a derailed locomotive, the chances of encountering this will be low (maybe higher in reverse) and the fix will be to back the locomotive.  The harsh edge on the back driving wheel is likely to dull quickly as the axel and brass bearing continuously slide around each other.  I don't think this is a defect, maybe a slight oversight, but not a problem long term, though I'd hope Kato address this with future SLs and expand the area where the axel and it's bearing make contact on non geared back driving wheels. 

 

For people who have one:

If you haven't run your locomotive in, do so on a flat, straight cleaning track or testing wheels to prevent locking up and you should be fine.  Make sure the screws securing the bottom plate are not loose.  I have not encountered any issues on testing wheels since I re-set the axels of the locomotive.

(This is an assessment from my issues and fixing the issue)

 

Edited Friday at 11:34 PM by sakuya

[sakuya]

@kusojiji also, for the knocking.  Check the pin on the second drive wheel from the front on both sides.  If it's sticking out, you may seize up and be causing you to have rod knocking. 

[kusojiji]

Disturbman, I'm not sure if any of the retailers out here in Japan provide any service. I just checked Yodobashi, Amazon, Tony's - 30 day return policy. Hobby Search is 3 days (ugh!). Kato says go to the dealer first, so 30 day probably. Appreciate the comment!

 

Sakuya, yeah, the axles are tiny as compared to what I have seen from the UK. Seems very fragile. The wheels have a lot of side to side and if you look at the bottom plate, they have the extrusions to limit the amount of side to side travel. Be careful if  you pull the bearing out of the saddle as mine had a tendency to stick and not go back in all the way. I had that issue with a Hornby 0-6-0 as the saddle was filthy and it caused one axle to be lifted so i only had 4 wheels picking up power.

 

Also, ensure that the tiny tab in the front of the bottom plate (under the front bogy) goes back into that slot that you can see on the left side of  your picture when reassembling.

 

The literature does say minimum curve is R550, which came with the HO standard set from 20+ years ago, which is what I have. I do see that I ordered some R490 and R610 stuff so I should see if I have that laid out somewhere in the path.

 

 

[kusojiji]

1 minute ago, sakuya said:

@kusojiji also, for the knocking.  Check the pin on the second drive wheel from the front on both sides.  If it's sticking out, you may seize up and be causing you to have rod knocking. 

Yup, saw that and the little notch in the rod where it was striking. Also need to check the piston rails. My right one was loose which was allowing the piston to strike. 

 

It's all OBE now as it is going back for refund.

[disturbman]

6 hours ago, kusojiji said:

Disturbman, I'm not sure if any of the retailers out here in Japan provide any service.

Large retailers wouldn't be able or willing to offer that kind of service, but I believe a smaller retailer like Rail Gallery Rokko would. Masaharu provided me with spares once, when I received a train that was missing a part. But due to distance, you would have to pay for shipping back to Japan if he needs to send the train back to Kato for repairs.

Otherwise, you will have to go through EU/US dealers. Whichever makes sense for you geographically.

[sakuya]

8 hours ago, kusojiji said:

Yup, saw that and the little notch in the rod where it was striking. Also need to check the piston rails. My right one was loose which was allowing the piston to strike. 

 

It's all OBE now as it is going back for refund.

Dang, did you try fixing it with tweezers or hobby pliers first at least?  Looks like it should be able to just pop right in since it isn't a threaded screw.

 

It being golden week, there is no rush to return to a Japanese retailer if you imported it.

[kusojiji]

3 hours ago, disturbman said:

I believe a smaller retailer like Rail Gallery Rokko would

I'll look that up. Thanks! I'm in Japan.

 

19 minutes ago, sakuya said:

did you try fixing it with tweezers or hobby pliers first at least? 

There's nothing like that. I put a drop of CA on it. It was quiet for about half a lap and then the knocking started again.

 

I did check my rails and I don't have anything smaller than R550 on it. Just 550 and 610.

 

Nah, I'm done with this one. Went out black cat today.

[disturbman]

If you are in Japan, that should simplify things. You could just find your closest retailers and order from them if there is any nearby you. Nothing beats an irl relationship, if you have the language skills. The advantage of RGR is that Masaharu speaks English.

[sakuya]

3 hours ago, kusojiji said:

I'll look that up. Thanks! I'm in Japan.

 

There's nothing like that. I put a drop of CA on it. It was quiet for about half a lap and then the knocking started again.

 

I did check my rails and I don't have anything smaller than R550 on it. Just 550 and 610.

 

Nah, I'm done with this one. Went out black cat today.

Oh dear, that's a shame.  But a professional repair is still likely to be reasonably priced if you're still willing to give it a chance.  It sounds like we both had a lot of problems but mine were simple to fix in the end, 5 combined hours of forward and backwards after it wasn't just knocking, but locking up, now nothing louder than the motors and some faint squeaking, can't even hear it over the motors unless you're specifically looking for it.  Good luck though.  I'll eye the thread in case anyone else has problems, I had to take it apart almost entirely to find all of the problems so I could help some other people maybe.

 

If you do still have it though, try squeezing the protruding tweezers, the kind you'd use to clean up eyebrows or lashes work well.  One of mine was loose, it was knocking a bit.  When I squeezed it in, I heard a light click and it was flush with the wheel.  No more problems.

[kusojiji]

@disturbman (I just figured out the @ thing) I did find the Rokko website - actually all 3! The first one was the international only site so I sent him a message about ordering in Japan. Then I found the old site and then the new domestic ordering site. I had to delete the two other bookmarks! haha. His prices seem good and I'll probably start swaying his way instead of the jungle site.

 

@sakuya Appreciate the info. My line of thinking is that I shouldn't be running and fixing as I go. There should be a level of confidence in the model that it should run reliably. Since the rod knock issue was continuing and I could not isolate it, and then the thing shorting out, it was too much. I wasn't going to eat the cost of the model when the warranty or return period expired and be stuck with something that was not enjoyable. I have already eaten the cost of 5 models due to not knowing how to send stuff in Japan. Since I now know how to send stuff back to the UK, I am now doing that. The D51 came from the jungle site (amazon) so it was just the local transport to send it back to them. They paid for the shipping as well.

 

Glad you figured yours out and are willing to share the experience. That was what my goal was as well, however I have to apologize for the drama! 🙂

 

 

[Kamome]

On 5/3/2025 at 9:03 AM, kusojiji said:

Kato says go to the dealer first, so 30 day probably.

If you get no joy with the dealer, the manufacturer will assist I’m sure. I had this with Yodobashi who didn’t respond to any of the emails at all. Perhaps if i’d taken it in to a physical store they would’ve refunded or replaced but their website suggests you have to contact them first to return web purchases. 

Tomix after care sorted that particular issue. 

 

Best thing is to also report any faults to Kato directly even if their response is a generic, “talk to your retailer.”If they get enough responses, they’ll have to take action if there’s a common fault or issue with the design. 

 

Mine arrived and thanks to the above information, i looked over it before applying any power to it. Everything looked fine, a couple of detail parts had dropped off in transit, all clipped back on. Checked, ok, although the copper wires on the drawbar were touching on delivery and I bent them slightly with a cocktail stick. The tolerances here are very small. Kato should really redesign this part if nothing else. The wires feel way closer than their N scale counterparts. 

Power applied, nothing, nudge, nothing, then sprung into life.  I had a look at the pins on the running gear and there is a lot of play. Similar to their N scale. Impressions are good so far but I will keep monitoring for anything that could bind up the movement. I’ve only been running it back and forth in slow mode so haven’t run in anger at a decent pace yet. 

 

The workings are certainly not on par with Tenshodo plastic models but seem adequate. Having seen some non-Quantum Tenshodo locos being in this price point a few years ago, I feel slightly underwhelmed. Time will tell if it holds up but this is typical Kato balance between price point and quality. The only take away is that Kato parts are usually readily available if anything goes awry after acceptable warranty expires. 

 

The box is your regular Kato affair, be it more a Tomix loco size,but has a lot of foam, way more than usually packed so they’ve obviously struck a balance on solving the issue based on what they have available rather than what they needed.  It’s relying on the pressure around the outer foam to keep the loco suspended. This is the case from new but it could start compressing then your loco is stored pushing against the right side running gear and boiler details. Again time will tell but an ice cube type package may have been better. 

 

My takeaway

 

This is not a terrible model, it runs nicely (so far so good)  Had I paid the full ¥55,000 for it and parts, I might’ve wished I’d just paid a little more and gotten a Tenshodo D51. At ¥38,000 all in, it’s a pretty good deal. I can understand the expectation not being met for those who commented and comparing it to other overseas options, you can get some much better options for the money. Being a Japanese steam engine for this price point, I feel it’s actually pretty reasonable. I will hold off any detailing until I’m satisfied it runs without any issues based on others experiences. 

 

The detail pack is a rip-off. Kato have definitely had the idea you can charge extra to HO customers. ¥5000 for what’s here is robbery considering what else you could get for the same value. 2 small sprues, one glazing piece, one dry rub decal sheet and one small sticker sheet of overhead wire warning signs. Bundling it in with the cost of the loco, I still feel overall it’s an acceptable price point but on its own it should’ve been ¥2000. I may write to Kato to express my thoughts. Maybe there’s some pricing strategy here but it does leave a slight bad taste. Personally, I would’ve liked a few more funnel options and some other numbers to customize the loco and what’s here should have come with the loco really.  In essence, i can see most just adding the majority of the details as they paid for them to maximise its ROI. There doesn’t appear to be any information to inform you where to put many of the dry rub decals, only the ward shed plates, so some photo reference or further knowledge of the particular loco you want is necessary. 

 

On the left is what came with the loco on the right the detail pack.

 

Anorak Alert

On the subject of add on parts, ironically none of the loco numbers included with the loco seem to have been fitted with the majority of included parts in the add on pack, at least from the various images I’ve come across. Perhaps it would’ve been far better to have regional localisation packs with suitable options to add for whichever region was your interest. I feel this is where a few 3rd party companies will start producing parts to rectify this oversight. 

Edited 4 hours ago by Kamome
formatting issues with last picture