Problem With FL12 N

[Brett]

Hi Guys

Anyone installed a FL12 N Decoder ?(N is the Dimmer Ability)

I have NCE Powercab,and with Normal FL12, i Just hit Headlight Button,but with this version Nothing Turns the Lights on.

I (seemed) to have programmed an Address.

When i install it has a little arrow on the decoder ,i have that facing up and towards the cab

 

Any Ideas?

[Wolf]

I would need to check the direction of install, but as long as the contacts are right, the arrow does not matter, worst case its red light when running foreward.

All my FL12N behave same as any FL12, meaning lights on is F0 by default on Adress #3

[chadbag]

Yeah try the default address first.
 

[Brett]

Thankyou for The Default Address hint

On one car the default address of 3 does in fact turn the Light on/off,but just like DC,both R/F lights stay on.

Not sure whats going on

 

BTW how do you guys address a FL12 decoder in the same Car that has a EM13?(2 car set)

 

Thanks

Brett

 

 

[chadbag]

2 hours ago, Brett said:

Thankyou for The Default Address hint

On one car the default address of 3 does in fact turn the Light on/off,but just like DC,both R/F lights stay on.

Not sure whats going on

 

BTW how do you guys address a FL12 decoder in the same Car that has a EM13?(2 car set)

 

Thanks

Brett

 

 

typically you'd want it to have the same address as the EM13.  The FL12 handles the lights and the EM13 the motor.  You wouldn't want to have to deal with multiple addresses at once for one train.

 

[Brett]

yes i unnderstand that Chadbag,but do you program at the same time.

How does the DCC system know which decoder is bieng written too?

 

[chadbag]

53 minutes ago, Brett said:

yes i unnderstand that Chadbag,but do you program at the same time.

How does the DCC system know which decoder is bieng written too?

 

It doesn’t.   It just sends the commands out and whatever decoders are there will be set.  So you can program them both at the same time.  However if you’re and do just the FL12, in my experience, there may not be enough resistance for the signal to get picked up. I’m not an engineer so can’t get into details but doing it at the same time as another locomotive usually works and you can google about adding a resistor or something for programming.  I don’t remember the details.  
 

but the short answer is if they are both on the track at the same time they’ll both try and get programmed. 

[Brett]

Thanks Mate,thats was good.

I wondered about the point you made about resistence as i have a lot of trouble programming single FL12,my NCE doesnt pick them up

I have better luck using JMRI but not perfect

 

In fact one FL12 on another set,the Ditch light goes off everytime the train is powered down,i have to FO it to get it back,rather annoying.

 

Thanks again

Brett

[Wolf]

Yes thats common for the FL12s, same with the FL12N. They have so less power consumption, a lot of DCC centrals simply dont recognize them and throw an error. I usually just slap a motor car with it on the track, and re-programm it once the FL12 is done.

[chadbag]

8 hours ago, Wolf said:

Yes thats common for the FL12s, same with the FL12N. They have so less power consumption, a lot of DCC centrals simply dont recognize them and throw an error. I usually just slap a motor car with it on the track, and re-programm it once the FL12 is done.

 

That's basically what I do.  I have a motor car that is for testing stuff or whatever that I throw on at the same time.

[cteno4]

LOL the sacrificial DCC motor car! 

 

Jeff

[Kingmeow]

The combo motor car would work as suggested but if you can find a Broadway Limited address changer (my club has one) it will do it also with no motor car needed.  It basically just rams the address down, including sound decoders, lickety split!  😎

Edited Tuesday at 10:34 PM by Kingmeow

[chadbag]

Also, I've found that it actually works and gets programmed but just can't read it back so it thinks it's failed.  So what I do is put the car with the FL12 in it on the track and just try writing the address like 4 or 6 times and then testing it.  Even if it comes back as failed each time it really did work at least one of those times...    It just doesn't read back.

[Kingmeow]

10 hours ago, chadbag said:

Also, I've found that it actually works and gets programmed but just can't read it back so it thinks it's failed.  So what I do is put the car with the FL12 in it on the track and just try writing the address like 4 or 6 times and then testing it.  Even if it comes back as failed each time it really did work at least one of those times...    It just doesn't read back.

 

This has happened to me at home with my Digitrax Zephyr (Gen 0) since I did not have the club's BLI address changer.  For some strange luck I tried it on the main track after a few "failed" attempt.  I *think* I got a "dn r" error from the Zephyr or some other failure code when trying to write to the FL12.  But one time I decided to just try it out on the main track after the failure and it worked!

 

After that I don't even write to it multiple times in hopes of getting at least one correct write.  I now just write once, regardless of error or no error, and it works.

Edited Wednesday at 01:27 PM by Kingmeow

[chadbag]

@Kingmeow   Yeah.  Usually takes once but I’ve had failures before which is why I just do a few in a row.  
 

I normally use a dedicated programming track and HW programmer (D&H).  I also have an ESU programmmer but have not really used it a lot yet as I bought it as the house started ramping up.  

[Brett]

Look I understand DCC is not a priority with Kato but the do offer it.

I love their products but get a little frustrated when it's a bit hit and miss with Their decoders 

Maybe it's me but I've got a few when their powered down the ditch lights goes off and only goes on if you F0 

My tracks and wheels are spotless

Anyone have a view on this?

 

[Kingmeow]

15 hours ago, Brett said:

Look I understand DCC is not a priority with Kato but the do offer it.

I love their products but get a little frustrated when it's a bit hit and miss with Their decoders 

Maybe it's me but I've got a few when their powered down the ditch lights goes off and only goes on if you F0 

My tracks and wheels are spotless

Anyone have a view on this?

 

 

First of all, Kato doesn't make any decoders.  It's made by Digitrax.  It's just relabeled for Kato.

 

Having said that, I have a ton of non-Kato locos (Atlas, etc.) that are 95% Digitrax decoders and they often have lights go off when powered down and then stay off when powered up at a later time requiring you to do a F0 to turn them back on.  Just as you described.

 

I've never take note of any certain circumstances when this happens.  There's no rhyme or reason that I have noticed and I really don't have the time or interest to collect data.  If the lights are not on, I just hit the F0.  No biggie to me.

 

Bottom line it's not Kato.  I can't say I have had any issues with FL12 or EM13 when I DCC a Kato passenger train.

[chadbag]

5 hours ago, Kingmeow said:

First of all, Kato doesn't make any decoders.  It's made by Digitrax.  It's just relabeled for Kato.

 

To be fair, they are KATO.  Made by Digitrax (and assuredly using Digitrax design).  No on else uses these form factors.   It's not like a Digitrax decoder that that they sell and KATO just puts their own name and box on it in Japan (which also happens I think with the locomotive replacement light board decoders).

 

 

[Kingmeow]

Granted it's a Kato form factor but the decoder is 100% Digitrax, from design (as you noted) to firmware.  Digitrax even makes it as you and I have noted.  Read back CV8 and you'll get 129, which is Digitrax's company ID for decoders.

 

With Brett's "issue" of lights on/off when power cycling, it's a Digitrax decoder problem (could also be command station), not Kato.  I'm an equal fanboi of both.  🤣

[chadbag]

On 4/17/2025 at 4:07 PM, Kingmeow said:

Granted it's a Kato form factor but the decoder is 100% Digitrax, from design (as you noted) to firmware.  Digitrax even makes it as you and I have noted.  Read back CV8 and you'll get 129, which is Digitrax's company ID for decoders.

 

With Brett's "issue" of lights on/off when power cycling, it's a Digitrax decoder problem (could also be command station), not Kato.  I'm an equal fanboi of both.  🤣

yes but my point was that they could have features turned off or on at the request of KATO etc.

Edited Saturday at 02:11 AM by chadbag

[Brett]

I didnt want to  start another thread, but you guys know DCC well so...

Very general question I know,it relates to Latest Kato Models(Passenger Trains Mainly)

I was looking through the Kato Catalogue on the Rokko Website and was wondering ..

Are all these Passenger Trains DCC Friendly?

 

The reason i ask,is i have the DCC Database Sheet but i find Matching up the version a bit Confusing.

 

Thanks again for all your inputs,really appreciate it.

[Lapis]

1 hour ago, Brett said:

I didnt want to  start another thread, but you guys know DCC well so...

Very general question I know,it relates to Latest Kato Models(Passenger Trains Mainly)

I was looking through the Kato Catalogue on the Rokko Website and was wondering ..

Are all these Passenger Trains DCC Friendly?

 

The reason i ask,is i have the DCC Database Sheet but i find Matching up the version a bit Confusing.

 

Thanks again for all your inputs,really appreciate it.

 

You can check it in KATO official web.

 

For example, when you want to check whether N700 Shinkansen is DCC friendly or not, just search N700 then you will find "DCCフレンドリー" character in the specification of product.

Of course you can translate Japanese to another language by using your web browser function.

 

In my sense, without "DCCフレンドリー" character is not plug-in DCC convertible.

[Brett]

Hi Lapis ,great stuff thanks mate .

[Kingmeow]

To add to what @Lapis said, find the manual to the train you are interested in, usually on kato.com.  You can translate the Japanese with your phone or just look for the DCC mentionings.  I took a screen capture of my N700S set as an example.  Many times the description on mail order places don't mention DCC.

 

[chadbag]

On 4/17/2025 at 4:30 PM, Brett said:

I didnt want to  start another thread, but you guys know DCC well so...

Very general question I know,it relates to Latest Kato Models(Passenger Trains Mainly)

I was looking through the Kato Catalogue on the Rokko Website and was wondering ..

Are all these Passenger Trains DCC Friendly?

 

The reason i ask,is i have the DCC Database Sheet but i find Matching up the version a bit Confusing.

 

Thanks again for all your inputs,really appreciate it.

 

In general most KATO locomotives (ie locomotive hauled trains like EFxx EDxx etc) will take a Digitrax or equivalent replacement light board decoder.  Sometimes minor work needs to be done to make LED work etc, like trimming a light pipe or moving an LED.

 

For the EMU/DMU type trains then the EM13 compatibility, the DCC-ready that KATO lists, is your friend.