Help and Suggestions Request Please

[Nasica]

Hi all,

 

I'm a father of two young boys (6 and 9) and we just got back from a local model train show. They really enjoyed it, and I have always enjoyed modelling of all kinds so I am contemplating dipping my toe into this. I loved Japanese trains when I was over there and find the aesthetics of N Gauge to be 'perfect' but I was wonder, basically, how do I start?

 

One of the sellers there had a Dr Yellow Tomix set that looked pretty nice, but, in the medium term, being a tech head I would eventually like to have the option to convert to DCC if possible. Would this set give me the option of doing that? Do you think buying this then saving for the A+B+C+D track set would be enough to keep kids interested?

How would you go about doing that? And how would you go about starting an N-Gauge Japanese layout if not with this Shinkansen? 

 

Thank for the opportunity to ask what I hope is not too banal a question

[bc6]

I suggest taking a look at the DCC section to see if anyone has DCC'd a TOMIX Dr. Yellow yet. There are other TOMIX sets that a the same as Dr. Yellow that have been successfully converted to DCC, Once again check out the DCC section there's even a database of different TOMIX sets that have been converted. Link to the DCC section here https://jnsforum.com/community/forum/22-dcc-electrical-automation/

[Little-Kinder]

  On 3/29/2025 at 2:09 AM, Nasica said:

Hi all,

 

I'm a father of two young boys (6 and 9) and we just got back from a local model train show. They really enjoyed it, and I have always enjoyed modelling of all kinds so I am contemplating dipping my toe into this. I loved Japanese trains when I was over there and find the aesthetics of N Gauge to be 'perfect' but I was wonder, basically, how do I start?

 

One of the sellers there had a Dr Yellow Tomix set that looked pretty nice, but, in the medium term, being a tech head I would eventually like to have the option to convert to DCC if possible. Would this set give me the option of doing that? Do you think buying this then saving for the A+B+C+D track set would be enough to keep kids interested?

How would you go about doing that? And how would you go about starting an N-Gauge Japanese layout if not with this Shinkansen? 

 

Thank for the opportunity to ask what I hope is not too banal a question

Expand  

There is also the option to go with kato, some trains are DCC ready, meaning you just buy a decoder and plug it in the train (just need to remove the shell around the engine) but you won't have sounds

 

but if you really want DCC you might have more options in HO as it's easier to convert to DCC.

Edited March 29 by Little-Kinder

[Nasica]

I would love HO, but I think I could do so much, comparatively, more with the limit space I have if I used N Gauge. And I think there is something about the size that really attracts me. 

I had a bit of a read around, and it does seem like Kato might be the better brand to do what I want here. I think it might just be key to capture my kid's interests whilst they are both still keen and just buy something and see how we go. Has anyone ever seen a layout with say, a shinkansen zooming through the background and some suburban trains running around in amongst it? 

[Little-Kinder]

  On 3/29/2025 at 10:15 AM, Nasica said:

I would love HO, but I think I could do so much, comparatively, more with the limit space I have if I used N Gauge. And I think there is something about the size that really attracts me. 

I had a bit of a read around, and it does seem like Kato might be the better brand to do what I want here. I think it might just be key to capture my kid's interests whilst they are both still keen and just buy something and see how we go. Has anyone ever seen a layout with say, a shinkansen zooming through the background and some suburban trains running around in amongst it? 

Expand  

Yeah, i recommend you check the elevated tracks they make, you can have shinkansen going on thise with large curve, and under you can have suburban trains going around

[Kingmeow]

If you want to go DCC or even thinking about it for the future, like you said, I would take a look at Kato more than Tomix.  Tomix is not DCC friendly.  Most the Kato stuff, you just drop the decoder in by opening a hatch on the bottom.  With Tomix, you have to disassemble everything and then hard wire the decoders.  If you are not good with soldering or even tinkering and just want to run trains, I would by pass Tomix.

 

I just did a DCC conversion of a Tomix 800 series Shinkansen. It took a lot of work and took days (a few minutes each day).  With my Kato N700S, it would have been done in half an hour, if that.  This is NOT a put down of Tomix as they make very good stuff and offer a bit more variety but they have ignored the DCC world.

 

Japanese N-scale is not all Shinkansen although they are the darlings of the hobby and everybody wants at least one set of those.  😁  There are plenty of commuter trains, inter-urban trains, even freight that you can get.

 

What part of the world are you from as that can help us to help you to spend your money (😃) and acquire Japanese trains? 

 

To give you an idea what I had to do to my Tomix, here are a picture each of the cab car and the motor car to get them to be DCC.

 

 

[inobu]

For Me or Them

Here's what I know through experience building layouts for people. This hobby is extremely complex and costly. If you are going to build

the layout do it for yourself with previsions for the boys. Its no telling if they are going to run with it or not.

 

Why You like N Scale

This is why you like N Scale. Being a Tech Head you are more inclined to pay attention to details. N Scale is the perfect scale because it

has a realistic perspective. When you walk around a N Scale layout its about 3 to 4 feet away. That distance in real life is about 500 to 600

feet away. So it looks real to you. The next time you are on a plane look out the window at 600' during landing and that's N Scale.

 

There's Trickery Afoot.

N Scale is 160th which means that 33ft  of N Scale track equals 1 Mile. It all actuality we are tricking the viewer into believing our world is

real. This is the famous starter kit Scenic Ridge by Woodland Scenics. Its a City and Mountain. As far as what your eye is telling your mind

its a little town somewhere. That layout is 3' x 6'. When translated to scale. It represents 1000' by 500'  something like 1/4 mile by 1/8 mile.

Now, you can see that its a game that we are playing to make out layout into a world.

 

https://woodlandscenics.woodlandscenics.com/show/item/ST1482?srsltid=AfmBOoqm5iV5r2q21gX9p9e-RtNrsw4JhUtpx5st2Idt-IQmA9ze7g_0

 

 

City to City

The Bullet trains travel from Region to Region which represents distant travel. The Commuter trains are City to City

which is more localized. The success of your layout build will be how well you are able to match the setting with the train type.

 

The Boys

Grandpa's layout usually fails with the grand kids because his layout is typically DC. Which means the kid have to sit and

watch Grandpa run trains or take turns. Which ends up being boring to someone. If you want them to buy in to the hobby

you will have to make it interesting to them. So go DCC right off the bat. Integrate a computer with train software and run 

it with your iPhone or Android. You can also automate the layout as well.

 

Train Software  

I highly recommend this route because it allows for a multi-user experience. It makes it possible for the kids to work

together as you can emulate the operations of a Railroad.

 

You or one of the boys can control the Layout while the others operate the trains. They have to request for a route,

the dispatcher sets the route and give permission to proceeds. The becomes interesting to them. Any derailment

requires them to fill out a report to explain what happened. You can teach them about NTSB.

 

Below is the example of the Control Panel. If you click on the switch the computer will generate a DCC message

that will cause the switch to operate.

 

https://www.jmri.org/help/en/html/hardware/cmri/images/example-ruckersection.png

 

 

The Layout Plan Design

I will tell you it takes about 3 to 4 build to get it right. It takes learning from your mistakes. If you build your

layouts in modules you can better control the build. Module B is better than A, C is better than B. D is better than C.

Then you can go back to A and fix it.

 

As for the design you want to build it where 3 people can operate on it at the same time without interfering with each other.

Here is and example of a layout that has 3 distinct areas of operation. The Yard, the 2 Stations and Main loop.

 

https://www.katomodels.com/unitrackplan/plan/plan03-6_image.jpg

https://www.katomodels.com/unitrackplan/plan_p3

 

Daunting or Haunting

Building a layout and doing it right can be really rewarding if done correctly. Cutting corners all

for the sake of getting trains running can be regretting and costly. Most people fail because they don't realize how

daunting it is.

 

You have to determine if this is a passing hobby or a lasting one for you. It is an expensive hobby.

 

Inobu

Edited Saturday at 08:44 PM by inobu

[cteno4]

Hi @Nasica,

 

Welcome to the hobby, it’s a great hobby to share with your kids.

 

While DCC is big now in the US and europe its not big in japan at all so there are a limited number of Kato trains that let you do drop in decoders. Rest you will have to wire in the decoder manually. Most trains this isnt super hard if you are adept at doing a little soldering. It will also add more cost to your trains for the motor car deconder and then most trains have directional lighting in the end cars that function under DC directional control and to make them work properly [both tail and head lights will alway be on with dcc without a decoder] under DCC you will need a small decoder in each end car as well. DCC throttles are also more expensive, but have a lot of features that DC does throttles dont have, than DC throttles. DCC of course gives you a lot of extra features like running two trains on the same track and not having to do fancier wiring to control more than one train. But on a smaller layout it can be hard to run two trains at once on the same loop and there are simple DC wiring options to let you have multiple trains on a layout and just run one at a time on any given loop.

 

You may want to think about just going DC to start with and then moving into DCC later. DCC is one more layer of complexity for many folks starting out. It’s gotten much simpler and easier to get going with but still one more layer ot learn and have potential issues with getting going. Nothing to prevent you from going to dcc later. DC is dirt simple and very easy to get started with.

 

I would say get a train and some track and start playing and then keep adding to your track. The fun of Kato and tomix sectional track is it’s super reliable and you can have tons of fun just making different layouts on the floor or table! Once you have played a lot you can then start seeing what you like and don’t like in track plans and find what you enjoy in the space you have. In the mean time you cna play with track plans in track and also in track planning software. But having a temporary setup does not mean you cant have most of the elements of a real layout. The power routing of Tomix and Kato points lets you do a lot of operations without any complex wiring. You can also drop in buildings and scenery pieces on temporary layouts to play with scene ideas and create different layouts. This is an excellent way to learn scenery, making little scenery bits to plop in, as you are working on small bits and easy to just do over if it doesn’t work out. Scenery techniques are highly variable in different folks hands so experimenting with a lot is good to find which work best in your hands and give you the look you want. Check this article out on making quite fun temporary layouts. You can start plopping down buildings as you acquire them and even just make some of your own paper cutout buildings, there are tons of pdf of buildings out there to cut out and glue/tape together to get something going and see how they look and what you might want to buy in buildings later. Very inexpensive [just printers ink and time] to get something buildings down.

 

If you are looking at japanese trains then no worries on brands, they are all great. There are minor differences between Kato and Tomix but i have several hundred japanese trains and find no real uniform differences between them. Some have a bit more detail than the other, or a different coupling mech, newer release of mouldings, etc, but over all you really cant go wrong. Smaller manufacturers like microace and green max aslo make excellent trains that are usually a big more expensive but are some of the odder bits not made by Kato and tomix. The bang for the buck and quality of all these japanese trains is excellent. Kato had a very international presence with its US and European produced trains and overseas distribution. Tomix does not really export at all and only does japanese trains but is a much larger company than Kato. But the good news is it’s pretty easy to order from japan from around the world and there are several shops in japan that are wonderful to buy from. Here in the US most of the stuff you see at train shows and in a few shops is used stuff and prices are usually not great [certain mystique of japanese trains being exotic so should be expensive with is not the case!]. Kato has exported a few japanese trains now and then thru a few dealers, but thats been very spotty.

 

Kato Unitrak though is available in many shops around the world and Kato actively exports it. Unfortunately lately the prices have been a bit high and at times its now cheaper to buy from japan with the low yen and better prices on track. Tomix finetrack has a wider variety of track but you have to order it from japan, but again thats not a huge hurtle in price, just cant pick it up locally. The two track systems are both n gauge code 80 rail but their connection systems and geometries of track radiuses and lengths are different so not easy to do a lot of mixing and matching. Kato makes an adapter track to connect the two but you quickly have issues with track lengths and radiuses, so folks generally stick to one or the other. All japanese trains will run equally well on any n gauge track out there, so no problems thee.

 

If space is a super hard issue and you still want to do some modeling, check out the various modular formats like ttrak. It’s little about 1 foot square modules that you pop together to make larger loops and layouts. Not as varied in track planning as your own layout, but for some it’s an easier way to work on things a module at a time in limited space. You cant then get together with a local club to run together at events. Most clubs [but sadly not all] like having younger folks participate [but they will need parental supervision at all club and public events] in the club and hobby. Im guessing there was probably a ttrak setup at your local show you went to.

 

If you want japanese trains then it will be N scale, it’s like 95% of the market. Japanese HO exists but its much more expensive and not nearly the selection of trains as you have in Japanese N scale [and that’s probably equally to all the variety of n scale trains in the rest of the world!]. A Dr yellow in HO will put you back a few thousand dollars, whereas in n scale about $150. You can also fit in so much more stuff in a limited space with N scale. Kids can be taught pretty well at a young age to do well with n scale, ive had young kids down to 5 or 6 handling it well quickly with supervision and they just get better fast.

 

Keep asking questions here! There is no right or wrong way to start in the hobby, but usually just getting a train and some track and starting to play is the first step!

 

Cheers

 

jeff

[Nasica]

Thank you all so much for all this great advice and help,

I really appreciate it.

Just one final question if I may please?

Is a Kato "starter pack" just a train and a M1 track pack? If I find a train I like can I just buy that and an M1 (or M2) track pack and have everything I need to get going?
What about the tool to put them on the track? Or was that Tomix?

Thank you again

[Little-Kinder]

  On 4/1/2025 at 8:02 AM, Nasica said:

Thank you all so much for all this great advice and help,

I really appreciate it.

Just one final question if I may please?

Is a Kato "starter pack" just a train and a M1 track pack? If I find a train I like can I just buy that and an M1 (or M2) track pack and have everything I need to get going?
What about the tool to put them on the track? Or was that Tomix?

Thank you again

Expand  

Yeah a M1 or M2 will come with everything , you just need a train and you are good to go.

 

Usually starter sets allow you to get a train cheaper than outside of the start sets, but if you don't like any of the options you can just buy M1 or M2 and a train