New to TNOS

[john_ibw]

I finally decided to take the plunge and ordered a used Tomix TNOS unit! It hasn’t arrived yet, but I already have a few questions.

 

The main reason I went for TNOS is that it offers the easiest way to run multiple trains together from time to time. I also appreciate the plug-and-play approach of the Tomix ecosystem. While DCC is superior in many ways, it can be cumbersome and fiddly when it comes to automation, block control, and scripting. I like that TNOS takes a more hardware-driven approach.

 

That said, I do have some questions:

 

1. Why do additional hubs seem necessary, even when not all ports on the first one are used? It looks like more complex layouts require extra hubs and sensors. For a double-track setup, four hubs are needed just to run a few trains, which gets expensive.

 

2. Does Tomix release updates for TNOS? If so, how are they transferred to the device?

 

3. Why are the sensor and feeder ports removable? Are they prone to malfunction or failure?

 

4. For those already using TNOS, how has your experience been?

 

Looking forward to hearing from fellow TNOS users!

[john_ibw]

39 minutes ago, john_ibw said:

1. Why do additional hubs seem necessary, even when not all ports on the first one are used? It looks like more complex layouts require extra hubs and sensors. For a double-track setup, four hubs are needed just to run a few trains, which gets expensive.

Is this because the PWM sync is limited to one hub at a time, meaning each train requires its own hub to control the output to the blocks? I’m also assuming that the custom settings for a specific locomotive apply only within the hub that is managing that train. Is that correct?
 

Thanks in advance!

[brill27mcb]

Welcome to TNOS, if a little late to the party, which seems to have run its course. Check out the Japanese source materials and companion English notes (so as not to violate copyright) about Tomix TNOS here, if you have not already:

http://www.trainweb.org/tomix/control/tnos.htm

 

Some specific answers:

1. Each hub has 4 block ports and 4 points/turnout ports. While the ports are removable, you cannot put a block port into a points port location, or vice-versa. I suspect their network addressing is hard-wired inside the hub. The more complex layouts do call for a lot of hubs, and point-to-point reversing ones seems to have a higher hub-to-train ratio than oval-based layouts. I use 2 hubs and Layout Plan 8 to automatically run 4 trams at a time in parade fashion.

2. Updates, how to get them, and how to install them are covered in the link I provided above. There are also past discussion threads here on JNS Forum.

3. The removable ports, we are told by people more informed in electronics than I am, are H-bridges. I have never had to replace one, and I am not aware of anyone who has had to replace one. Maybe that's why they are still available at Hobby Search Japan today...

4. I have enjoyed running tram layouts with TNOS, but there is a learning curve and setup work in the beginning. I have created "cheat sheets" to remember my custom Operating Parameter Sets (that are tuned to model tram operating characteristics from varying manufacturers. You have to cable up the layout carefully, then run a single train using the Test Operation sequence for your particular layout to check out the functioning of all the blocks, sensors and points. Once things are st up correctly and running well, you get the benefit of easy, repeatable automatic operation. One frustration for me is that it's hard to just run a new or long-stored train around just to test it or warm it up (if you use more than one hub).

 

The TNOS system does more than just a PWM synch. For each train in operation, it feeds a block using the chosen Operation Parameter Set for that train, so you can sort of "speed match" fast-running and slow-running trams. When a particular train is approaching the next block, it turns on that block, powering it by the same Parameter Set, and then shuts down the first block after the train leaves it. It's like having automatic block control, with each train running with its own unique throttle using operating parameters suited to that train. I can mix speedy Tomytec trams with very slow Arnold trams, and they all are handled properly.

 

Rich K.

[dotzen]

You've just given a very good description of the basic operation of Track Manager in DC (PWM) mode of DCC-EX.

[john_ibw]

6 hours ago, brill27mcb said:

Welcome to TNOS, if a little late to the party, which seems to have run its course

 

Thanks, Rich! Also, for the tips! Is there a new version coming? Does anyone know if Tomix is planning an upgrade or re-release?

 

I’ve already gone through some of the material from the link you shared-very informative! Still learning, and once I get my own copy of TNOS and have some hands-on experience, i’ll be back with more questions.

 

[brill27mcb]

Sadly, there has been nothing new on the TNOS front for 5 years now. I thought further layout plans would be forthcoming, but nothing has appeared. The promised interface to the Tomix signals also never materialized. I also was hoping the TCL (Tomix Command Language) would let users write control programs for layouts of their own design, but it essentially only lets a user run one train at a time, good only for yard movements and staging trains. Yavianice and I, along with some others, discussed TCL at some length here a few years back.

 

Rich K.

[john_ibw]

Thank you again, Rich! I had a question about TCL, but you’ve already answered it. I was curious whether TCL could be used to bypass standard controls and script a custom layout and operations. Your explanation about it only controlling one train at a time clarified that. It’s hard to say whether that’s more efficient than manually moving each train out of the yard and positioning it at the predefined TOMIX start points.

[john_ibw]

I have another question about the TNOS unit. In one of the later updates since its release, it became possible to use it as a regular control system. However, I’ve struggled to find clear answers online.

 

First, can the TNOS unit operate points (turnouts)? If I had to guess, i’d say yes, but I’d like to confirm.

 

Second, is this feature reliable enough to profile locomotives and use the speed readings to set custom parameters for each locomotive? I came across a Japanese video demonstrating this functionality after the update I think, which got me thinking-could these readings be a good indicator of how the locomotives will perform in automatic mode and if the same parameters have been correctly set?

[brill27mcb]

I should have mentioned that TCL operating scripts can only be used on the layout designs that Tomix provides. As for moving and positioning trains manually, you can't do that with TNOS. When I start an operation, I hand place the trams in their correct starting block positions - that would be tougher with longer trains.

 

Responses to your questions, in order:

 

My memory of the feature that allows manual operation like a regular controller is that it can be done only if there is just one hub. I've looked for that in my documentation today, but could not find it. I remember realizing that with two hubs on my Layout Plan 8, I would not be able to do it.

 

Each TNOS hub can operate up to four points/turnouts in automatic operation. That is what 4 of the 8 outputs on each hub do. The updates made it possible, in addition, to dial the TNOS control to a setting where you can select a point by number and throw it, and alternatively to use TCL commands in a script to throw them.

 

There is a maximum of only 10 customizable Operating Parameter Sets. That's why I did one per model tram type (Tomytec, Modemo, Arnold, etc.). I explain in my "manual notes" how I ran each type around a small oval layout using the TNOS control unit and setting it for manual speed override. I could then dial a speed setting (between 1 and 100) that looked like a reasonable speed and used a stopwatch to time a lap. I would use that speed setting in the custom parameter set for that model type (as the "yellow signal" speed), then switched to another manufacturer's model and found the speed setting that achieved an approximately equal lap time. In each case, I used a warmed up model and ran several laps, turned the tram model around and did a few laps that way since most trams can be run either end forward, and repeated this with several different examples of that type of model to strike an average. You can never get an exact match, and a single specimen can vary in performance from lap to lap, so it's an inexact exercise at best. Even now, when I operate my layout and a speed seems too high or low, I can easily get into the parameter settings and lower or raise that setting.

 

Not sure I understand your last point. A locomotive will operate the same under TNOS as it would with another PWM-based controller.

 

When you receive your TNOS system, you can set up a simple layout (like Layout Plan 1: oval with passing siding) and experiment to get hands-on experience. Remember that for each block in the layout you will need to have 2 insulating rail joiners (4 for a passing siding), a track feeder and a TCS sensor, so you will need to have all of these on hand, too. And maybe extension cables...

 

In the meantime, keep studying the Japanese "Basic Set Manual" (link on my TNOS webpage), along with my accompanying notes, and watch my two explanatory videos to see what it's like to set up and operate Layout Plan 1 in the real world. It may be easiest to start with the videos first.

 

Rich K.

[john_ibw]

Thanks again, Rich, for your detailed explanations! Your expertise is evident, and your insights are incredibly helpful. I’ll wait for my unit to arrive, and in the meantime, I’ll catch up on all the reading. Your notes and articles are excellent resources for someone just starting out.

 

Regarding the sensors, I already have a decent collection since I picked up the TCS ACU a while ago for my tram layout. That led me to get rail sensors as well, given that I had the ACU. This prior investment in the Tomix automation line is one of the reasons I decided to explore TNOS. I’ve built up my collection over the years, so that’s a plus. I do have the older ACU, though, and only one power unit.