Shirahama Station (Maybe?)

[PotatoLaptopUser]

Hello Everyone,

        This is my first time posting after lurking accountless on this forum for quite some time now. I wanted to do a somewhat temporary DC layout for a while now and I realized that I have most of the trains that run on the JR West Kuroshio line now (283, 287, 289, going to pick up 227). The stations I was choosing were between Shirahama or Shingu sta. But in the end I chose Shirahama because it looked like it had an easier track plan, as well as the fact that the 9 car train uncouples there. I do want to see if there is someone who has traveled down to Shirahama and compare the track plan that I have posted below (Not drawn to scale yet). This layout will most likely be a loop with a siding at the back so I can store trains after they leave the station.  I also think I might just have enough space for 9 cars to fit in the station. Eventually I do want to get scenery, when I move and can make it a permanent layout, but for now I just want to get the tracks down. The board will be around a 4 x 12 x 4 (jutting out on one end where the track does a full 180). An Issue that I have concerns for is the single track after leaving the station and whether or not it will cause issues and how to fix it (I’m thinking about using the Tomix plastic joiner and power switch kit if anyone knows what I am talking about). I will be building with Tomix’s tracks. The depot was just placed there for now, it will most likely shift to accommodate the fine track angles. I would love to see some opinions on this somewhat small project that I want to start on. Don’t really know how to close this, so have a great day!

[cteno4]

Hi Potatoe, welcome to JNS, glad you came out of lurking!

 

So the size will be 4’x12’ with another 4’x4’ chunk sticking out in the lower right? If so that is pretty deep at 4’ in general to reach in to work on things. Will you have access all the way around the layout? If so then reaching in 24” to work on things is not too bad, but even then it can get tiring for longer periods of time, but if you can’t get to the back or sides of the layout you are talking about having to reach in 4’ [and more in that top right corner] which is almost impossible without a mission impossible rig to suspend you over the layout or a series of hatches to pop up in.

 

the single track coming out of the station there in the lower left will only cause issues in letting you easily run one train at a time thru it. With dc this is going to be very tricky if you want to try run two trains at once. I realize you may be following a prototype track plan, but it may not translate into easy running of your trains if you want to try to run two trains with dc. With dc if you kept it a double track all the way around it would give you two nice easy loops to run on. Also if you move the rear yard to come off the inside loop and put a double crossover between the two loops you can much more easily move trains in and out of the yard while a train is still running on the outside loop. It may not be the prototypical running you want, but would be easier. Of course DCC would allow much easier control of more than one train on a bottle neck of the single track, but that is another can of worms to get into!

 

give us a bit more info on how you want to run your trains on this. If it is the size questioned above you should have no problems with a layout like this with fine track in that space i think. Might start to play with things in some track planning software. There is the free xtrakcad, but its pc mainly and a bit cranky to setup and use, others out there, but cost a little money, but can be very handy at messing around with ideas with real track geometry and dimensions and get an idea of what cna be done easily.

 

Cheers,

 

jeff

[PotatoLaptopUser]

6 hours ago, cteno4 said:

So the size will be 4’x12’ with another 4’x4’ chunk sticking out in the lower right? If so that is pretty deep at 4’ in general to reach in to work on things. Will you have access all the way around the layout? If so then reaching in 24” to work on things is not too bad, but even then it can get tiring for longer periods of time, but if you can’t get to the back or sides of the layout you are talking about having to reach in 4’ [and more in that top right corner] which is almost impossible without a mission impossible rig to suspend you over the layout or a series of hatches to pop up in.

Hello Jeff, Thank you for your insight, and yes I will be able to access all the way around the layout. So thank goodness I dont need to buy a rig 😅

 

6 hours ago, cteno4 said:

the single track coming out of the station there in the lower left will only cause issues in letting you easily run one train at a time thru it. With dc this is going to be very tricky if you want to try run two trains at once. I realize you may be following a prototype track plan, but it may not translate into easy running of your trains if you want to try to run two trains with dc. With dc if you kept it a double track all the way around it would give you two nice easy loops to run on. Also if you move the rear yard to come off the inside loop and put a double crossover between the two loops you can much more easily move trains in and out of the yard while a train is still running on the outside loop. It may not be the prototypical running you want, but would be easier. Of course DCC would allow much easier control of more than one train on a bottle neck of the single track, but that is another can of worms to get into!

I would love to get into DCC, but honestly, I am just too lazy to convert my backlog of trains into DCC and then figuring out the wire stuff for the rest of the track. Maybe I’ll look deeper into the DCC topics and see if I can try converting a few trains and a stretch of track.

 

I have tried any rail before in the trial version to plan out some tracks, but I would love to give xtrakcad a try and be able to design the tracks. I also do have a surplus of tracks lying around so I could also try to attempt to build it, but might give myself back pain since the table isn’t very high up.

 

 As for running trains, I was hoping to use Tomix’s insulating joiners on the turn out track, and use a type of switch box that I forgot the name which has a dc cord running out of. Tomix released it a while to a long time ago so you can have two trains or locomotive parked on the same track at a depot or siding. Worst comes the worst, I use three power boxes with insulating joiners between them, one on each double track with the third on the single line and insulating joiners on the turnouts. Which I do already have to use if I want to couple/uncouple the trains in DC.

 

I used this video as the inspiration for the whole layout: https://youtu.be/J-XRfAld8bU?si=IRdKhmBnqitWRFhe

 

Ill post sometime soon with the track plan from a track modeling software.

Edited February 12 by PotatoLaptopUser

[cteno4]

Ok if you can get at it from all sides. Center section of the L may be a bit of a reach. If this is more of a temp layout then you wont have ot do a lot at full reach so no worries. If you start to put more scenery in the center you could put it on sections of ply wood you could drop in and lift off to work on.

 

Yes dcc is a whole nother ball of worms to get into. As it is you wont even need to really do any insulation and block wiring you could probably do it all with just the directional wiring of the points. But you can always use insulating joiners and wire up traditional block controls with two power packs and dpdt switches on a control panel with the layout schematic. But simpler to just see if you can use the point power routing to do all your track power control for you.

 

is there a reason for the little single track section in the bottom left?

 

if you dont mind making the lower left single track section a double track section it will greatly simplify your wiring and allow more flexibility in running two trains using 2 dc power packs, one for the inside loop [and its sidings] and one for the outside loop [and its sidings]. Then put the top yard coming off the inside loop so trains going into the yard dont have to cross the inside loop. Then just use a double crossover between the two loops to move trains between the two loops.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[PotatoLaptopUser]

12 hours ago, cteno4 said:

 

is there a reason for the little single track section in the bottom left?

 

if you dont mind making the lower left single track section a double track section it will greatly simplify your wiring and allow more flexibility in running two trains using 2 dc power packs, one for the inside loop [and its sidings] and one for the outside loop [and its sidings]. Then put the top yard coming off the inside loop so trains going into the yard dont have to cross the inside loop. Then just use a double crossover between the two loops to move trains between the two loops.

 

I guess I just want to make the layout more prototypical, as for some reason the entrance of the station coming in from the Osaka direction merges into a single track before the turn, and separates after the turn. But I might also just be giving myself a hard time, so if it gets to the point, I’ll make it double tracked and follow what you said for the yard.

[cteno4]

Layouts are all about tradeoffs unfortunately, as they are highly compressed space wise, so you can probably never have it all! But its all about balancin those things to get the maximum enjoyment for yourself. Also with prototypes its different with trains running very independently [more like dcc control], lots of routing oversight/signalling, and lots of space between them to deal with single track areas easily.

 

It can be hard to run prototypical operations on a layout as things usually are very shortened in length so you need to cheat now and then. Operating prototypically also requires a lot of thought and planning and then attention while you are doing it, which for some is great joy and others tedium. You said you had a bunch of track already, i would suggest you mock up the station and that single track entrance and see you you like having the single train operation at one time on the layout. With ull double you can have one train running on a loop as you are playing with the other train in the station or yards pretty easily with plain dc and point power routing. 

 

Best thing is to play before setting into any heavily defined layout plan to learn what you like to do and more importantly what you dont like to do! Try to mock elements of the plan up and play with them some. See what brings you the most joy to help figure out the inevitable layout planning tradeoffs that have to happen.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[Junech]

1 hour ago, cteno4 said:

With ull double you can have one train running on a loop as you are playing with the other train in the station or yards pretty easily with plain dc and point power routing. 

 

The solution to one continuous running train while playing with another train at the station my club found was On-Off-On switches for all track pieces between two switches. If needed you can divide track pieces into smaller pieces. Now you get 2 controllers wired to one On-position each. That way you can set up a route for the continued running train while setting routes for you playing with the other train and can even cross the tracks the other train would run on (you just need to switch to the other On position for that short time frame).

[cteno4]

Yea traditional block wiring approach would be the best for the single track plan as Junech says short of dcc. But it does require you doing your own wiring of each isolated block of track to DPDT [double pole double throw] switches you would layout on a traditional control panel with a track plan schematic [like your drawings above] with switches mounted in each track block to throw to one throttle or the other [or center for totally off]. This really is a great way to do a more prototypical running scenarios like this. Down side is you have to insulate your track blocks with insulated joiners and wire feeds to each, then wire those to the switches in your control panel. The wiring is not really difficult just tedious. Bunch of soldering to the switches but thats not horrible as soldering is just learning and some practice and anyone can do it without much work. Cost is minimal as sub minature dpdt switches are under a buck each. Wire of course which is a bit more expensive these days. Really not a huge task and would let you do the more prototypical running easier like Junech says and no dcc. Using the usual tomix point power routing you would be sort of limited to one throttle on this layout, you could do two but you would have situations of hand offs between the throttles that isnt always the best running solution for thru running.

 

You can even just solder the wire feeders to the bottom of track pieces very easily. Just cut a small groove under the track thru the roadbed with a roto tool and then solder the feeder wire to the bottom fo the track. Then put a dollop of epoxy over them to lock the wires nicely in place for stress relief. Makes the best electrical connection you can make as well as a very sturdiest one.

 

cheers

 

jeff