What Additions can I Make to my Kato V13 set

[Bigdog]

At the moment I have a basic Kato V13 set with a viaduct station. Looking for inspiration to expand my track. I've had a look at the sets on the back of the box and none of them really interest me. Looking for things like turnouts and maybe a way to make a single track move down to ground. Any ideas will be appreciated.

[Kamome]

You could either expand the station design and include a diverging track or use the the Kato viaduct station expansion plates to add a turnout along the line somewhere. Kato Unitrack doesn't quite have the same customisation as Tomix Finetrack has, but not to say you can't make something yourself.

 

Here are a few ways of using your station with a diverging track which would then need to purchase a suitable radius curve and incline piers to lower it to ground level.

[Bigdog]

1 hour ago, Kamome said:

You could either expand the station design and include a diverging track or use the the Kato viaduct station expansion plates to add a turnout along the line somewhere. Kato Unitrack doesn't quite have the same customisation as Tomix Finetrack has, but not to say you can't make something yourself.

 

Here are a few ways of using your station with a diverging track which would then need to purchase a suitable radius curve and incline piers to lower it to ground level.

For the single incline do I just buy the pole set, (23-016) then use regular track for the incline? Or is there some other track I have to buy?

[Kingmeow]

Here are some ideas from Kato themselves.  May be a bit too complex to expand from a V13 set but it does give you some ideas.

 

https://www.katomodels.com/unitrackplan/index

[Kamome]

You would need the single viaduct track sections(e.g 20-400), such as the ones in the V2 set. The parts are all available separately as well as alternative radius from the R315 curves that come in the V2. As for piers, the ones that come with the V2 are also available separately 23-015. Kato produce an auxiliary set too, 23-016 which allow for some more even pier spacing on the curves and straights while keeping the gradient. 

 

Edit 

I should also add, should you wish to add catenary to the single viaduct piers, you’d also need 23-056 bases along with your chosen catenary poles.

Edited January 31 by Kamome

[cteno4]

Bigdog,

 

If you have any regular single Unitrak pieces you might try doing the grade piers with just some stacks of pieces of cardboard taped down as risers and test running your trains up and down the grade to see if you like running with grades (requires more throttle work) and determine the grade you want to use and also have room for getting away with. A 2% grade is good, 3% considered starting to push it and 4% really steep. You can always cut some chunks of 1x2 wood to create cement piers at custom heights to fit your layout plan. It can be challenging at times to fit the set pier sets to a plan.

 

Grades present a number of challenges and can be a little fiddly to get right and not all equipment plays well on them depending on the grade. Also puts a bit more wear and tear on the motor chassises. The steeper the grade the more you have to play with the throttle while running of course.

 

our club used the second of Kamome’s plans to bring a big 3m yard off our viaduct loop, but that was a very long show layout at 7m.

 

Do you have the space to do a bump out on one end of your double viaduct loop? This can make it feel much less roundy-roundy, but needs a larger area.

 

jeff

[inobu]

Here is a visual of what Jeff is saying. He is pointing out the most critical aspect of your general question. Notice that Kamone is showing

you the dynamics of what your are faced with.

 

'm going to suggest you getting some kind of Software so you can be better equipped to build your layout. 

 

To Jeff's and Kamome point from 50mm height to 0 in 900mm is 5% grade. You would need to double that to get the grade down

which effects your layout size.

 

To my point: software is the best way to go. The circle inset shows the height and grade of the slope. You can do more with it

as it save you time and wasted money spent on incorrect purchases. There are free programs (XtrackCAD) but I prefer AnyRail.

 

You can access Kato's Catalog select your V Sets, cut the track list and lay them on your virtual floor and start building.

That is fun in itself. 

 

Inobu

 

[cteno4]

Yes playing with some layout planning software will really help you see what the limits are in your space on the track plan. You need quite a bit of space to make a double viaduct loop get out of the roundy-roundy issues. One trick to help some is just rotate the viaduct 5 degrees off of the table grid. Sounds like not much but the small bit of asymmetry does help! Hiding a bit of it visually with buildings or scenery can help. Whole on a small loop it may be hard to get a hill to completely cover the viaduct with a tunnel you could nestle a hill into the corner and have a cut through it for the viaduct tracks that could obscure it some and break the loop effect. Tall buildings all around one 180 end could also work.

 

here are some of the viaduct loops we did on our club layouts

 

Big full car 16 car shinkansen station and smaller 8 car station. Thers is one S curve but the Shinkansens tolerated it with the larger radiuses of the double viaduct tracks. 2’x4’ grid here.

Later sectional layout could not do the 5 degree viaduct rotation and cleanly split the more complicated bump out. Double viaduct line in blue. 1’ grid along the edge here.

 

jeff

[brill27mcb]

The reality for me a few years back was that the single-track viaduct piece would not fit next to a double-track viaduct piece at the end of the elevated station. The side walls got in the way. I had to use 3 parallel single-track viaduct pieces:

 

 

You don't need to get as fancy as I did with the turnouts/points. I wanted to be able to directly feed both viaduct tracks with trains from the lower yard.

 

Rich K.

[cteno4]

Interesting, always wondered about that. We never tried a single viaduct for the extra yard track as our yard module butted right up to the end of the station so single Unitrak could just be used out off the station.

 

I miss the giant Shinkansen station…

 

jeff

[brill27mcb]

On 1/31/2025 at 3:39 AM, Kamome said:

You could either expand the station design and include a diverging track or use the the Kato viaduct station expansion plates to add a turnout along the line somewhere. Kato Unitrack doesn't quite have the same customisation as Tomix Finetrack has, but not to say you can't make something yourself.

 

Here are a few ways of using your station with a diverging track which would then need to purchase a suitable radius curve and incline piers to lower it to ground level.

 

Concerning the footnote in the drawing above, AnyRail does include the special tapered-roadbed straight pieces that come with the "#4" turnouts, listing them as S60L and S60R, but they are shown in the track library down among the turnouts (20-220 and 20-221).

 

Rich K.

Edited February 1 by brill27mcb

[Bigdog]

7 hours ago, cteno4 said:

Bigdog,

 

If you have any regular single Unitrak pieces you might try doing the grade piers with just some stacks of pieces of cardboard taped down as risers and test running your trains up and down the grade to see if you like running with grades (requires more throttle work) and determine the grade you want to use and also have room for getting away with. A 2% grade is good, 3% considered starting to push it and 4% really steep. You can always cut some chunks of 1x2 wood to create cement piers at custom heights to fit your layout plan. It can be challenging at times to fit the set pier sets to a plan.

 

Grades present a number of challenges and can be a little fiddly to get right and not all equipment plays well on them depending on the grade. Also puts a bit more wear and tear on the motor chassises. The steeper the grade the more you have to play with the throttle while running of course.

 

our club used the second of Kamome’s plans to bring a big 3m yard off our viaduct loop, but that was a very long show layout at 7m.

 

Do you have the space to do a bump out on one end of your double viaduct loop? This can make it feel much less roundy-roundy, but needs a larger area.

 

jeff

So with Kamomes option, is it a 5% gradient, even with the set kato gradient poles? (23-016)

[Bigdog]

2 hours ago, brill27mcb said:

The reality for me a few years back was that the single-track viaduct piece would not fit next to a double-track viaduct piece at the end of the elevated station. The side walls got in the way. I had to use 3 parallel single-track viaduct pieces:

 

 

You don't need to get as fancy as I did with the turnouts/points. I wanted to be able to directly feed both viaduct tracks with trains from the lower yard.

 

Rich K.

So do you think Kamomes first option will not work? That's the one I'm leaning to at the moment as I don't have that much space to work with

 

[cteno4]

The incline depends on the spacing of your track sections. The longer the sections the gentler the grade. Really depends on what track pieces you will need to use in your setup. How much space do you have?

 

23-015 from hobbysearch

The slope is approximately 4% for a straight line of 248mm, approximately 5.4% for a 186mm line, approximately 4% for a curved line R315-45, and approximately 4.5% for R282-45

 

this set is and up and down set that is doing the whole rise on 6 track sections.

 

Using the gradual incline set 23-016 you can add s joiners to the top and then end up with 12 piers to do the incline so 12 track pieces and thus half the slope.

 

if you can give us more information on the space and configuration we could potentially make more suggestions. 
 

Before you buy any incline sets or extra track you can easily mock up a grade by host taping together some like 1” squares of corrugated cardboard to make simple piers the appropriate heights to support the track and test running trains on it.

 

jeff

[Kamome]

When I have made temporary set ups using the V13, V2 and viaduct station, I have not had issues with walls colliding, although I have not positioned a double track viaduct straight next to a single straight in my designs . I have always used a diverging curve leading off from the station plate. In the case of the V2 it’s an R315-45 degrees. Another issue would be the wide catenary bases that come with the piers in the V13 set. These will obviously clash with a straight section but can’t comment on the straights themselves without mocking it up. Other narrower double piers are available. 

 

As for slopes, if you were to use the basic single track incline piers (10mm drop) per 248mm straight, I believe the gradient is around but not exactly 4%, which is still relatively steep. I’ll let the mathematicians properly calculate what the gradient is on the curves although I calculate the track length to be roughly the same as the 248mm straights when using a R315.  So I’d think still a 4% gradient plus the added forces imposed due to the curve. 

 

The 23-016 additional piers are intended for adding to the mid sections of the single viaduct pieces and actually use different white joiners. They allow for a decrease in pier spacing while keeping the 4% incline, but could be used to reduce the gradient, (2%, 5mm drop per 248mm) although this would obviously double the length of track needed for the total incline.

@cteno4 put this more eloquently while I was typing. If space is a challenge, an incline could be out of the question. 

 

 

Final Point

R315 viaduct curves are too tight for shinkansen coaches, other than E3, E6. The side valances on the longer length shinkansen coaches will ground or collide with the side walls of these track sections. 

 

 

 

 

[Bigdog]

3 hours ago, cteno4 said:

The incline depends on the spacing of your track sections. The longer the sections the gentler the grade. Really depends on what track pieces you will need to use in your setup. How much space do you have?

 

23-015 from hobbysearch

The slope is approximately 4% for a straight line of 248mm, approximately 5.4% for a 186mm line, approximately 4% for a curved line R315-45, and approximately 4.5% for R282-45

 

this set is and up and down set that is doing the whole rise on 6 track sections.

 

Using the gradual incline set 23-016 you can add s joiners to the top and then end up with 12 piers to do the incline so 12 track pieces and thus half the slope.

 

if you can give us more information on the space and configuration we could potentially make more suggestions. 
 

Before you buy any incline sets or extra track you can easily mock up a grade by host taping together some like 1” squares of corrugated cardboard to make simple piers the appropriate heights to support the track and test running trains on it.

 

jeff

I just did a mock up of 23-016, it works relatively well on trains with a double consist such as an E5 and E6, and with single motor trains it works fine as well. I made it so the viaduct station was on the start of the V13 curve to create space. Definitely can fit a regular track, not sure about a viaduct. For the turnout, do you recommend a set like V1, or do I buy the parts individually.

[cteno4]

If you are just running a train up a grade like this to get it from a yard onto the Shinkansen track then it’s not too bad as you can really goose the throttle as needed to get it up. It’s more an issue if the grade is part of the overall mainline and lots of up and down throttling needed. One of our club members use to make a lot of Wilde temporary setups with steep grades and run his trains fast so they could do the grades with out playing with the throttle and it lead to spectacular crashes at times. He also had the most stripped and snappy drive shafts I’ve seen as well as gummed up trucks (i expect from long hard runs sucking up a lot of schmutz), and a few burned out motors. He ran his trains hard with his steep grades on his mainlines.

 

one issue to look for is your transition from flat to grade, these are spots that can cause decoupling, mainly with rapido couplers, and derailments, mainly with couplings that are stiffer like some shinkansen diaphragm coupling system. The steeper the grade the more the issue. This can be fixed if you make a vertical transition track for the top and bottom of the grade. This is just a piece of Unitrak that you saw thru the roadbed plastic from the bottom side to about 0.5mm from the base of the track, basically just into the plastic under the tracks. Do this about every 5-10mm along the track. You can then gently bend the track vertically so it get a slight curve in it up or down to make a smooth transition rather than hard hard vertical kink at a track junction.

 

buying your track in individual pieces or on sets is really up to you. I think once you start to put things down much out of the basic adding a passing track it’s better to get individual track parts as sets rarely have a lot of extra pieces to mess with. Best to have a smattering of extra track pieces laying around to play with designs in the future. But some folks love to stick to the track sets. Up to you.

 

jeff

[RS18U]

4 hours ago, cteno4 said:

This can be fixed if you make a vertical transition track for the top and bottom of the grade. This is just a piece of Unitrak that you saw thru the roadbed plastic from the bottom side to about 0.5mm from the base of the track, basically just into the plastic under the tracks. Do this about every 5-10mm along the track. You can then gently bend the track vertically so it get a slight curve in it up or down to make a smooth transition rather than hard hard vertical kink at a track junction.

Thank you for this, I was wondering how to do a transition with Unitrack, now I know.  My grade is calculated at 1.4% by the software so this will work well.

[cteno4]

At 1.4% you may not need it! It’s like over 2% I’ve seen the issues creep in. The club member that had all the crazy grades would cheat and try to him up a coupe of tracks so that first big slope joint was not so bad. Later I made him a pile of 1.5”x3/4” wooden piers (that had routed edges so it looked like a cement pier when spray painted cement gray) in 1mm increments so he could do what ever grades he wanted along with a couple of pairs of transition straight pieces. Worked well but many times it was hard for him to have the transition on a straight.

 

jeff

[RS18U]

When I get to track laying I'll try it without and see what happens, but even visually it would be better to have that gentle vertical curve leading in and out of the level sections.  And easy to do by the sounds of it.

[Bigdog]

All worked out in the end, thanks guys.

[cteno4]

Good! Do watch on the platform’s curved end there that some trains running faster thru that S curve may bump the platform edge and cause derailments. We had a similar passing track with #6 points around the longer curved platform ends that was having some derailments in the station after coming thru the switch S curve to the passing side at speed. We kept thinking it was happening with the point itself and track but turned out to be the proper placement of the platform ends as designed let the cars bump sometimes off the edge of the platform and the rocking later resulted in the derailments. Shortening one of the straight platforms by a half an inch and pulling back the curved platform end that little bit solved the problem.

 

jeff