Layout ideas for busy city scape

[Junech]

The approach of the station planning following prototypical planning isn't necessary to achieve accurate situations. It is more a focus on having a station that can handle the way you want to operate your layout.

 

That way giving the same operational tasks stations will have close to the same layout. There can be differences in length, width, and shape (like the station being in a curve). Having more tracks or a different layout would generally mean that either there are more or different tasks or it once had different/additional tasks and they just didn't remove the old tracks yet.

[MrLinderman]

57 minutes ago, Junech said:

The approach of the station planning following prototypical planning isn't necessary to achieve accurate situations. It is more a focus on having a station that can handle the way you want to operate your layout.

 

That way giving the same operational tasks stations will have close to the same layout. There can be differences in length, width, and shape (like the station being in a curve). Having more tracks or a different layout would generally mean that either there are more or different tasks or it once had different/additional tasks and they just didn't remove the old tracks yet.

 

I agree, I've also got to consider that I may over time "extend" the layout to more of the shed and end up having another station to build so getting a good solid layout and method of layout will be key to replicating or ensuring that operations matches at both locations.

[Captain_Mumbles]

if you use INNOX on your track it will always be conductive.

[MrLinderman]

Evolution 6 of the layout design.

 

Changes:

• Remodeled station from scratch and switching for station to best match routes and idea of the layout
• Made the point to point "commuter" line a dual line
• Remodeled the storage yard, splits areas for Shinkansen and other loco's with a "shed" in between
• Reduced the open space on the side of the elevated track and station nearest myself, shown below in "red". May consider this "removal" there to 1. save space and 2. allow for much easier access to the station and rear of the track (700mm wide at smallest point instead of 1m)

 

Overall layout

 

 

New yard layout

 

 

New Station layout

 

 

New commuter line now double lined

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 17 by MrLinderman

[Junech]

It looks good! But since the commuter line is now double-track, you need the double crossovers at the station entrance for them as well (like it is on the Shinkansen lines). Otherwise, the trains can only arrive at the most outer platform.

[MrLinderman]

41 minutes ago, Junech said:

It looks good! But since the commuter line is now double-track, you need the double crossovers at the station entrance for them as well (like it is on the Shinkansen lines). Otherwise, the trains can only arrive at the most outer platform.

 

Might have to be seperate crossovers due to space left, will see what I can do, left side should be doable, side near the Yard I might have to do the crossover over a little further back maybe before the curve or redesign the yard entrance again 😂

[Junech]

You can play around with switches too. You just need to make sure that both green lines connect to both tracks on the outer platforms.

[cteno4]

Nice cleanup! Will help in making much easier running and i expect more robust running as well.

 

jeff

[UnfinishedKit]

Looks good, I hope the Carpark is just a placeholder for something a bit more Japanese, a bus turn back and a proper ekimae with lots of izakaya

 

Your station brought to mind Saijo in Hiroshima. Not quite the same config, but it’s a good mix on Sanyo line commuter trains to Hiroshima and a lot of freight, all through lines, though.  Doesn’t see any express passenger any more but it did before the Shinkansen opened. 

 

https://www.openrailwaymap.org//mobile.php?style=standard&lat=34.43146530479847&lon=132.7437499165535&zoom=18

 

Saijo is an epicentre of sake brewing and home to the National Research Institute of Brewing at Hiroshima University. Lots of great sake, their town festival I. October is a blast, hosted by their drunken tanuki mascot. Try the Bishu Nabe, developed so that sake brewers can get a tasty feed without compromising their ability to taste sake. The Satake museum is good too, they are Japan’s number one brand of rice polishing machine. 

[MrLinderman]

5 minutes ago, UnfinishedKit said:

Looks good, I hope the Carpark is just a placeholder for something a bit more Japanese, a bus turn back and a proper ekimae with lots of izakaya

 

Your station brought to mind Saijo in Hiroshima. Not quite the same config, but it’s a good mix on Sanyo line commuter trains to Hiroshima and a lot of freight, all through lines, though.  Doesn’t see any express passenger any more but it did before the Shinkansen opened. 

 

https://www.openrailwaymap.org//mobile.php?style=standard&lat=34.43146530479847&lon=132.7437499165535&zoom=18

 

Saijo is an epicentre of sake brewing and home to the National Research Institute of Brewing at Hiroshima University. Lots of great sake, their town festival I. October is a blast, hosted by their drunken tanuki mascot. Try the Bishu Nabe, developed so that sake brewers can get a tasty feed without compromising their ability to taste sake. The Satake museum is good too, they are Japan’s number one brand of rice polishing machine. 

 

Yes the wording is just a place holder, will be doing some heavy research before doing any sort of modelling work for the city, station and town areas 

 

Awesome info, thank you, will have a gander at that link. 

[UnfinishedKit]

A thought. For a densely urban scene, many urban stations have some form of elevated component or are completely elevated. Two ways to achieve this:

 

1) you flip your station to be on the upper levels and the through segment could go down, event better if it could go subterranean but I don’t think you have enough space for the height gain. 

 

2) delete the 2 inner platforms and have express services only call occasionally by accessing the 2 and 3 platforms on the loops from the mainline Then create an elevated station in the viaduct, either with platforms directly on the main line, or, like intermediate Shinkansen stations, with them looped off the main line so faster trains can pass slower ones. Fukuyama is a good example of this albeit with the Shinkansen line crossing  parallel rather than at an angle. 
 

 

[Junech]

The problem with raising the station would be that you would also need to raise the viaduct that crosses over the station. Additionally, the whole yard needs to be at a pretty high elevation too since there is not enough track to bring it down to ground level.

 

It fits kinda nice with Ogaki Station. you have the Tokaido Main Line in the center and the Tarumi Line and Yoro Line branching off. Both of the rural lines are on the opposite sides of the station and run in opposite directions. All that while having a yard and being on the ground level.

[MrLinderman]

Spent a solid amount of time on this design now, pretty much 95% there.

 

All that's left is planning out where certain items will go such as commercial buildings, roads, town houses, etc.

 

Version... I think 9 now 😅

• Complete redesign of station, yard and track, was allot quicker though as I knew where I was headed

• Huge increase in station size, now can accommodate an A+B (8 car) Shinkansen completely on the high speed lines, and typical local lines have the smaller (same size as before) stations now offset based on entry point

• Hopefully switching is now sorted, I believe i have everything covered
• More options at the yard, including engine only storage, shunting engine storage, dedicated work huts, and better spaced overall, those switching curves from Tomix make it so much easier to split on a corner

• Upper track now is 99% viaduct track, no longer switches to and from superelevated, kept the min of 354mm radius on the inner track so high speed trains can still run at a "good" speed without worry of a derail, i could always 3D print some minor "curve" into the corners when i design the pillars.
• Lower track had some slight mods to accommodate the new larger station, took some time but got there

• Added a bridge section just out of the mountain as i think that will look nice with a low height river passing underneath
• River will also help separate the "town" area from the station area
• Moved crossing to the "bus" side and will incorporate it into that part of the design

 

Next up is to spend time measuring all straight sections and re fitting with a more efficient and less jumbled mess of pieces, using the "ruler" in the software helps here, can drag to each end of the straight then work out the most efficient set pieces to use

Edited February 19 by MrLinderman

[UnfinishedKit]

That’s looking really good, maybe you could fit a turntable on the spur in the yard so your SL specials can be serviced  but other than that it’s pretty much got everything. 
 

Now it’s just down to scenic choices. The double bridge situation is a bit like the Tokaido main line and Tokaido Shinkansen exit their respective tunnels just south of Odawara. You’ve got high and low bridges of different ages.

 

You could turn that edge of hill into a cliff to make it more dramatic although the Japanese way would be to cover it all in that lattice concrete that’s everywhere.  To make the bridges a bit different you could use cosmic or KitchiNN kits rather than the usual Kato/tomix ones. 
 

the hill needs a bit of a statement piece, temple, shrine or castle, maybe something from Woody Joe. And if you do that the. That area across the river could be more of an old town - machiya style shop houses, maybe a sake brewery or miso maker, a stone dock on the river and wooded bridge over the river. 
 

and I think for balance, to make this look like a river valley the land on the other side of the layout should rise a bit, does not need to be dramatic but maybe the commuter line goes into a tunnel and the Shinkansen is on the side of a hill rather than on viaduct as it rounds the curve. 

 

 

 

[MrLinderman]

1 hour ago, UnfinishedKit said:

That’s looking really good, maybe you could fit a turntable on the spur in the yard so your SL specials can be serviced  but other than that it’s pretty much got everything. 
 

Now it’s just down to scenic choices. The double bridge situation is a bit like the Tokaido main line and Tokaido Shinkansen exit their respective tunnels just south of Odawara. You’ve got high and low bridges of different ages.

 

You could turn that edge of hill into a cliff to make it more dramatic although the Japanese way would be to cover it all in that lattice concrete that’s everywhere.  To make the bridges a bit different you could use cosmic or KitchiNN kits rather than the usual Kato/tomix ones. 
 

the hill needs a bit of a statement piece, temple, shrine or castle, maybe something from Woody Joe. And if you do that the. That area across the river could be more of an old town - machiya style shop houses, maybe a sake brewery or miso maker, a stone dock on the river and wooded bridge over the river. 
 

and I think for balance, to make this look like a river valley the land on the other side of the layout should rise a bit, does not need to be dramatic but maybe the commuter line goes into a tunnel and the Shinkansen is on the side of a hill rather than on viaduct as it rounds the curve. 

 

 

 

 

I'll think about a turntable, if it can fit and not look out of place I may put that in instead of the extra short siding on the bottom left side of the yard.

 

Thanks for the tips on cosmic, had a quick look on hobby search and ami and they look nice, and i like how they are basically frames so can be used with any track. some of those would probably suit really well, and I have a large collection of modeling paints and oils so will be "weathering" any kits i get to match the area.

 

I think a cliff face on that side (bridge area) would make sense, it would help with setting up the bridge as well.

 

I like the idea of an older town on the hill side of the river and a wooden bridge going into a slightly more modern "town", then that transitions into the Station bus zone and the station itself is the separation from that to the "city"

 

Light (start of) hill on right could work, so raised areas would be both far left and far right, giving the aspect that the entire scene is part of a large valley, yard would need to be considered as I don't think I can raise that any significant amount but I would assume the look of the hill being "cut" to accommodate the yard would be realistic, with sharp edges near the storage lines and that concrete mesh you referred to to "secure" the hill, as that side is against a wall normally i can leave the rear of the hill open to access the commuter line if need be.

 

Some great scenery ideas thank you @UnfinishedKit

[UnfinishedKit]

This guy, who sells under the KitchiNN brand has some really nice brass etched bridges that would work nicely for the lower line. 
 

http://ringo.cafe.coocan.jp/zaiko23.htm

 

I have not ordered from him yet but it does seem like a fun challenge. 

[MrLinderman]

14 minutes ago, UnfinishedKit said:

This guy, who sells under the KitchiNN brand has some really nice brass etched bridges that would work nicely for the lower line. 
 

http://ringo.cafe.coocan.jp/zaiko23.htm

 

I have not ordered from him yet but it does seem like a fun challenge. 

 

Me like... would be rather a nice touch as well instead of standard looking Tomix "flat bridges"

[MrLinderman]

@UnfinishedKit Did a concept for the Yard with a turntable, not 100% sure though, thoughts?

 

[Ander88]

I mentioned in other layouts (maybe I give it more importance that what it realy has and in your layout you can do maneuvers at the main station) but if starting to play with loco + passenger compositions I always think it is usefull to have a place in the yard where to move the loco from back to head. Something like:

 

Or maybe 

 

 

Therefore your composition can enter the yard with the loco heading and maneuver to uncouple the passenger cars and the loco can scape through that track.

[Junech]

Yeah, that would be a good thing to have! The only other option would be to have a local shunting engine do the work from and to the yard. I don't know how that is handled in Japan but my local main station does it that way in most cases even if the engine shows in the right direction.

[MrLinderman]

I'm not 100% set on the turntable, mainly as i plan to use locos in this layout that are either commuter type or double headed like the EF series.

 

So adding a more expansive "siding" point would make sense so i can re-organize passenger carriages on those units that have them from front to back and visa versa.

 

My plan for this specific layout is the yard would be my "playground" as per say, my role being getting vehicles ready and onto its assigned station, once there I will be writing ex-rail automations to take over at that point and "run" the trains around a specified route, once complete then I take control to either move them back to yard or to another station to hand over to a different "driver" (automation), i love messing with my Arduinos and coding so really want to dive deep into allot of sensors and automation on this layout.

 

For that to work each line will be assigned a "direction" for the motors, automations that leave the station to the right would require FWD power, and those leaving the station to the left will be coded in REV power.

 

"future" plans if it ever comes would be to open up the shed to more space, adding on a huge amount the the left side going downwards (around 4.5m) and another dog leg of 2.4m at the end of that, this "future" layout upgrade would require the "hill" area on this one to be reworked (so need to leave it easily adaptable, thinking hollow hill with removeable top) so I can take the lines inside the tunnels and redirect them down into that area, that area will be less city and more country with industry as I would plan for that to incorporate JRF and some industries (with its own yard) i think then a turntable would be preferable.

[MrLinderman]

Thinking something along the lines of this, also modded the object which shows the "engine" to a double ended to represent more of what i'm going for:

 

Blue: Shinkansen Storage

Green: "work" sheds, also can be used to store commuter or passenger trains

Orange: Commuter Storage 

Yellow: Passenger Engine Storage

 

Passing tracks for the passenger "engine" switch can allow for either 4 cars in the shown area or up to 7 cars max in the longer stretch 

 

Edited February 20 by MrLinderman

[MrLinderman]

Been working on the shed "layout" after I get it cleaned up and insulated.

 

Two concepts

 

1: As per the design I originally created, a bit roomier, more floor space.

 

 

or 

 

2: Maximum use of space, utilizing a crawl under to two 70x70cm operator positions, provides very big model train layout potential, reduces the "movement" area for my other hobby but keep the same overall "working" space, enough gap to roller door for entry and exit. under desk storage will be harder to get access to, might need to uterlise high shelf and "wall" storage of items 

 

Is 70x70 enough room for an "operator" position, the maximized area would make it so any area of the layout is within 60cm of a person for working on or touching

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 12:15 AM by MrLinderman

[cteno4]

The top one looks like it fits your layout plans above, correct? Seems to have a nice bit of room around it and if you can pull it away from the the wall you can get access to it pretty well from all around. 

 

The bottom one is interesting and very large layout space, but i would worry about always having to crawl under the layout and then stand up into the small openings, this may get old fast. I would mock it up with some chunks of plywood and/or cardboard to see how well you like having to try to pop up and down into a 70cm hole and then just have to rotate in the hole. Again feels like it would get very limiting fast. You do have good access with this design ot all the layout spaces. Plus the wrap around layout gives you a much easier loop all the way around while not requiring 100cm for a 180 anywhere. The space between the layout and the work bench seems very tight. You could have that center workbench be movable as probably working at the benches for a while or on the layout. But maybe think about just doing a single large hole in the center [like connecting your current two holes] and narrowing the left side of the layout to more like 70 or 80cm. This would give you more room in your center walkway between the workbench and layout and give you a giant loop where you could have the scenery just changing all along the big loop. The single long center pit may be a lot more comfortable to hang out in as well as get in and out in even with two people in there. A wider central corridor also gives an easier viewing space from the front for those that may not want to crawl into the center pit. Longer center pit would probably be more comfortable if you wanted a chair in there for longer times in the center.

 

Maybe that center workbench could be a folding table that you just set up when needed to open up the space a lot the rest of the time. For the model train stuff you wont need a really big bench area usually and you have the top workbench and even the airplane work bench when needed for a bit. 

 

If you have some folding tables you might mock these ideas up with some cardboard and plywood to just see how they feel being in. It sounds like you spend a lot of time in your workshop play space so you definitely want to make sure you are happy in the space and moving around in it as if you are not its going to really ruin your enjoyment of your hobbies. Looking down from above in a plan like this [or even in 3d cad] doesn’t give you the real feel for the space. When ever we did house remodel stuff i was pretty good visualizing spaces well in my head but i still mocked things up in cardboard all the time, especially for my wife to get a better feel for the ideas. Id always, though, discover something i didnt like once i mocked it up and it was great as it made my wife so much more clear as to what we were doing!

 

cheers

 

jeff

[MrLinderman]

20 minutes ago, cteno4 said:

The top one looks like it fits your layout plans above, correct? Seems to have a nice bit of room around it and if you can pull it away from the the wall you can get access to it pretty well from all around. 

 

The bottom one is interesting and very large layout space, but i would worry about always having to crawl under the layout and then stand up into the small openings, this may get old fast. I would mock it up with some chunks of plywood and/or cardboard to see how well you like having to try to pop up and down into a 70cm hole and then just have to rotate in the hole. Again feels like it would get very limiting fast. You do have good access with this design ot all the layout spaces. Plus the wrap around layout gives you a much easier loop all the way around while not requiring 100cm for a 180 anywhere. The space between the layout and the work bench seems very tight. You could have that center workbench be movable as probably working at the benches for a while or on the layout. But maybe think about just doing a single large hole in the center [like connecting your current two holes] and narrowing the left side of the layout to more like 70 or 80cm. This would give you more room in your center walkway between the workbench and layout and give you a giant loop where you could have the scenery just changing all along the big loop. The single long center pit may be a lot more comfortable to hang out in as well as get in and out in even with two people in there. A wider central corridor also gives an easier viewing space from the front for those that may not want to crawl into the center pit. Longer center pit would probably be more comfortable if you wanted a chair in there for longer times in the center.

 

Maybe that center workbench could be a folding table that you just set up when needed to open up the space a lot the rest of the time. For the model train stuff you wont need a really big bench area usually and you have the top workbench and even the airplane work bench when needed for a bit. 

 

If you have some folding tables you might mock these ideas up with some cardboard and plywood to just see how they feel being in. It sounds like you spend a lot of time in your workshop play space so you definitely want to make sure you are happy in the space and moving around in it as if you are not its going to really ruin your enjoyment of your hobbies. Looking down from above in a plan like this [or even in 3d cad] doesn’t give you the real feel for the space. When ever we did house remodel stuff i was pretty good visualizing spaces well in my head but i still mocked things up in cardboard all the time, especially for my wife to get a better feel for the ideas. Id always, though, discover something i didnt like once i mocked it up and it was great as it made my wife so much more clear as to what we were doing!

 

cheers

 

jeff

 

Thanks Jeff,

 

I agree, once we have the shed cleaned up and sorted I will be doing it "half" at a time, the roller door being my mid point split, with the "plane hobby on the door side, and the train hobby on the non-door side to help reduce dust on the layout even more.

 

I agree also that doing a mockup will be essential, I have also considered doing the below as "mid point" between maximum space and original plan, would also make some some nice point to point designs, maybe with a big yard, engine housing in the center

 

As for time in there, yes for my plane side I spend a fair bit, and now with trains it will be even more so being comfortable is key.

 

That middle "bench" I think will 100% need to be on casters so it can be slotted next to the wall bench when not in use