KATO Availability

[Abushoni]

Greetings All,

 

I have just came back from 3 weeks in Japan and naturally visited every model train shop in every city that I'v been to. this was not the first Japan visit, but was the first after I have been infected with the model train hobby which was a great experience.

 

I could not miss the fact that for many products that I was after, there were lots of Tomix but not KATO (I have a KATO system) versions. To my surprise, even at the KATO Hobby flagship Shop in Tokyo they sold TOMIX versions of trains they did not have on stock. Just to be clear - I like both vendors and have trains of both. But I do wonder if someone has some know-how about why this may be the case of "sold out" for so many products by KATO while they are available by TOMIX (Shinkansen 0, automated cross, traffic lights - just to name a few). As I extend my sets I would like to know I am investing in the right vendor.      

 

Thanks,

 

Abushoni

[bill937ca]

Number one these are two very different companies.  Tomix is part of a multi-national conglomerate with operations across the world.  Kato is a family run business with very definite ways of doing things.  It is not unusual for Kato items (or other Japanese items) to sell out on release.   Its a factor of the high cost of real estate and lack of land in Japan. Make no mistake Japan is a large country, but about 80% of the land is mountains or forests and the forests are subject to landslides if clear cut.  Kato is a specialist hobby product, whereas Tomix and Tomytec reflect the world wide toy maker background of their parent company.  Tomix also has reputation as a child's first train in Japan

 

This has always been an issue since I started buying Japanese trains 20 years ago. I got Kato when I could and when I couldn't I found other manufacturers like Micro Ace or Tomix.  All my steam locomotives are Kato.

[disturbman]

For the 0 series shinkansen, the answer is easy: Tomix released the NH16 formation in March, whereas the re-release of Kato ancient 0 was in 2021. In any case, if you want a 0, get one of Tomix as in this precise case they are much better and up-to-date models than Kato's. Tomix will release another variant in January.

Like for the 0, unavailability is usually a question of production cycle. Products sell out rather quickly and except for rare exceptions are only reproduced every 5 to 10 years (if ever).

[cteno4]

As noted it’s mainly about production cycles and how long stuff stays in inventory. The rule of thumb is if something is being released you really want, preorder it as you don’t know if it will be available for a day, week, month or year! Kato and Tomix at times are rivals on releases and other times they are spaced apart of each other with same/similar equipment. 
 

As bill noted Tomix is backed by Tomy toys so they have big production backing and money and are over twice as big a model train company as Kato, which gives them more muscle and abilities for bigger and more runs. Kato produced their trains mostly domestically where as Tomix uses Chinese factories for the most part. Kato also does a lot of American trains as well as European trains and is a privately held, family company so it’s a bit more limited and fickle at times on what gets produced when. 
 

As for quality and detail they are pretty much the same level. It does depend on competing models which has the better detail or features and of course some are fans of one over the other. Kato has a tendency to be a bit higher detail in general but Tomix also has their high grade models with more details as well. Both run fine on each other’s tracks so no worries there. All in all unless you are very picky about some particular element they are both very good quality and value overall and the mainstay of Japanese model trains. Microace and green max are smaller companies that do the odder bits not usually done by Kato and tomix and have quality and detail on par with Kato and tomix. Again here will be a range in all of these and no hard rule of thumb. It’s a continual debate which is best, but the fortunate thing is they are all very good so it’s usually minor things (but of course very big to them) folks are quibbling about in these debates. I, myself, don’t have an overall preference and have had some models I swear by from each company and a few models I sometimes swear at (but not often) from them all.
 

Tomix also has the Tomytec line that are more odd trains and trams that are sold as static models. Detail is good, but not quite as good ar regular Tomix and Kato, but they do a lot of very interesting trains you won’t see produced by Kato and Tomix. You can then buy a motor chassis, metal wheels and pantographs to turn them into regular running models. 
 

only thing you don’t want to do is mix and match cars for the same train from different manufacturers as couplers usually don’t interoperate and coloring and decal lines may be slightly different. But since most Japanese trains are sold in sets this is not a big issue.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[SwallowAngel]

As @disturbman mentioned, the 0 Shinkansen is a very recent release thus making the TOMIX version relatively easy to get for now. The last time KATO released the 0 Series was 2021, so almost 4 years ago...

However I'd disagree with @bill937ca, it's not neccesarily that KATO always produces less of a given product compared to TOMIX. Both TOMIX and KATO are manufacturers catering to broad interest groups within the hobby with a similar footing in the hobby. Both seem to sell at a similar pace as well, so any difference in company size or whatever doesn't really matter.

 

In my opinion, what you're experiencing is a biased perception stemming from your specific interests. This is of course not a bad thing, I personally only have eyes for steam locos, but it does lead to your conclusion.
As said already, this is a matter of production cycles and luck. Whether the KATO or TOMIX model of your desired train is available is up to whenever which manufacturer last released it...

The problem of a manufacturer's products being basically always unobtainable after release does however apply to MicroAce, as they tend to do very small runs of more niche prototypes. If you want a model from them you better have a preorder, otherwise you'll be hunting that white whale for a looong time...

Otherwise both TOMIX and KATO are comparable in detail as Jeff already mentioned, though I always recommend doing research on whatever model you desire, since some models can be hit or miss. Most importantly for your case, the KATO 0 Series traces it's molding back to the 80's/90's with it having been barely updated (As seen by the Arnold coupler used by it). TOMIX is the clear winner in this case, but as said, both companies have their ups and downs. Researching your models is crucial imo for this reason (Then again, I could just be an obsessive train weirdo 😅)

Edited December 8 by SwallowAngel

[Kingmeow]

Don't forget that Kato is more DCC friendly even though most of Japan is not DCC.  Their EM13 and FL12 decoders are easy drop-ins for a lot of their trains.  I am able to DCC a Kato set in 10 mins whereas for US locos, sometimes taking off the shell takes 10 mins!  I tend to avoid Tomix because I'm all DCC and belong to a club in the US where we run at shows with large combined layouts that necessitates DCC.

 

What were you specifically looking for that was out of stock (besides the aforementioned Shinkansen 0)?  I too just returned from Japan last month on a 3 week trip.  My second time so I learned a lot on my first trip last year about acquiring N-scale trains in Japan.  We visited 7 cities/towns but I visited 12 train stores.  🤣  This gives you an idea where my priorities were.   This time was I brought home $600 worth of trains, all Katos and did not face any out of stock situation (well, other than decoders but in the end I was able to get them all at Kato Hobby Center).

 

What stores did you visit?  Some of the larger chains that I visited were all full of Kato stock; TamTam, Models Imon, Popondetta and Joshin Super Kids Land.  Maybe the stores you visited were smaller?

[katoftw]

I was in Japan in September and didn't notice a lack of Kato products.  Seemed plentiful to me.

[Ekiben]

Don't worry about "investing in the right vendor." Both are large and reputable companies. Product availability depends on production schedules, as other posters have correctly noted. 

[disturbman]

I would extend that last point to the the entirety of the Japanese manufacturers. The only advantage Kato has is its DCC-friendly or DCC-ready sets, but that doesn't encompass the entirety of their portfolio.

 

12 hours ago, SwallowAngel said:

The problem of a manufacturer's products being basically always unobtainable after release does however apply to MicroAce, as they tend to do very small runs of more niche prototypes.

It does apply to Tomix as bare for a few high interest models, there are plenty that won't be remade soon or perhaps never. At least in the Tomix range. I'm not sure about Kato as their production seems less varied and they rerun models more often than Tomix (or MicroAce). They even reran some of their supposedly special/limited editions; like the 287 Panda Kuroshio and the Tokyu 5000 Shibuya Hikarie.

[cteno4]

Here’s my view on it.

 

I think Kato as the smaller “family” company is a bit more flexible and attuned to keeping modelers happy. Mr Kato is a passionate train guy and pretty whimsical. Having KatoUSA means they have had to do dcc for all that now so not so hard to add it for most popular Japanese trains and make a small subset of Japanese modelers happy. But their smaller size means they don’t have the resources to do a broad range in this.

 

Tomix’s larger size and parent tomy give it the ability to do a wider range of models and things like the whole Tomytec line of trains, buildings, figures, and scenery pieces. But Tomix is more the larger corporate mentality and going more for large sales to drive most all decisions. Hence don’t bother with DCC as it’s a very small segment to bother with in Japan.

 

Both approaches seem to be working over the decades and it’s actually nice to have them both happening as it makes for a more varied set of products and options than two companies operating exactly the same. Greenmax and microace also have varied approaches as well so it fills up niches well and adds to the variety of options.

 

jeff

[Abushoni]

Thank you all for your answers and views. I have visited TamTam, lots of Popondetta, Joshin Super Kids Land flag shop in Osaka and Yodabashi to name a few. While they were full of both KATO and TOMIX merchandise, the specifics I was after were missing in all. Btw, they are also missing in the online channels like Banzai Hobby or Amazon.  

 

From a product management perspective, while I can understand that many trains models are not available or will never be, the infrastructure (traffic lights, crosses, rails of different sizes etc ) should be in my mind. Just as an example I could not find Variation 3 anywhere. While I have the flexibility to buy N Scale trains from different vendors, I can not do this on the infrastructure, hence my concern as I invest into a specific vendor. 

 

Again, I like KATO a lot but would be happy if basic stuff will be readily available. Maybe hunting those parts along time is part of the hobby. Still learning....  

 

Thanks,

 

Abushoni

 

 

[Kingmeow]

As you say, it is part of the hobby unfortunately.  It's not just Japanese N-Scale, it applies just the same to US N-Scale, thus the reservation system when models are announced and people reserve if they are interested in getting it when it is released.  There's a saying in model trains that if you see something you like or even *think* you will need in the future, buy it!  Because you may not see it again in X years where X can be a big number.

 

Since you mentioned visiting the big guns of train retailing in Japan, and all were out of what you were looking for, then it's just bad timing and not one company is better than another.  In between productions as many people above have said.

 

It's not just engines and rolling stock but accessories and tracks and pretty much everything else are manufactured in batches.  This is a niche hobby.  Ask those poor modelers who's into trams.  Supposedly the tram tracks have been out of stock for some time now.  So even basic stuff can be out of stock everywhere but "arriving soon".

 

The concept is hard to understand at first.  It's like having a supermarket running out of bread and milk.  Why would you when they are daily staples?  But it doesn't apply in this hobby as the big fear, from manufacturers, distributors and retailers, is that they've made too much and that batch sits around forever in somebody's storage location and that costs money.  They rather make too little and have it sold out than too many and now money is tied up.

 

Hopefully you will be in this hobby for a while and over time you will have less and less of this "things seem out of stock" feeling.  It's one thing having 2 engines and trying to acquire one more and it's out of stock versus having 200 engines and trying to acquire one more that is out of stock.  Just saying...  🙄😁🤣

Edited December 8 by Kingmeow

[cteno4]

Unitrak is kept in pretty good supply most all the time as individual packs. Track sets seem to be more variable, I think as higher ticket items that take more space and shipping costs. I’ve always found it best from way back when I started just buying track bits as needed and avoided the sets (most were not around actually when I started japanese modeling). It’s the odder bits like crossing gates, unitram, etc that can be out of stock for a while or get sold out very fast after a batch rerun. For regular track stuff I’ve never had a very long wait for Unitrak.

 

it is frustrating when you can’t get exactly what you want, especially as kingmeow notes when you don’t have a lot of other trains to play with. But I don’t think it is the way it is as that’s the way the business can work. Trying to keep more of the “staples” in stock all the time may just not be possible and I expect over the decades it’s sort of settled into this is what can be done.

 

jeff

[disturbman]

Tracks except for Unitram are normally on a much shorter cycle. Kato is currently working through its turnouts, as well as releasing new starter sets. They just did the #4 left and right and will release their wyes again next month. The accessories are bit more of a mixed bags. Iirc, the automated crossing always fetches some crazy amount of money on the second hand market.

 

And they also just announced a big Unitram re-release for April and May.

[Tony Galiani]

When I was in Japan last month, I could not find Unitrack no.4 left turnouts nor any Wye turnouts.  Now that I am back home I see they are now being restocked.  I need to make a note to order some Wye turnouts as soon as they become available.  I expect it is a bit tough on the production side to know how much to produce as I expect demand ebbs and flows somewhat.  I know I have personally bought more than I planned due to the weakness of the yen.

 

And for the first time ever, I did a pre-order as I wanted to make sure I could get the MicroAce JR Shikoku 8000 release and wanted to play it safe.  I have been hoping for a re-release of the MA JR East KiYa 193 for years and it has never happened.  The occasional one for sale on eBay commands absurd pricing so I finally took the hint to pre-order something I really wanted.

 

Ciao,

Tony

[Kamome]

Kato have a “Best” selection that gets regular production runs. As you’d expect, this covers a good number of everyday modern train types that you’d see and ride on including shinkansen. 

 

Everything else gets either a single run or it can be some years before they decided to do it again. The Kato catalogue is a bit misleading in this sense as it shows what they’ve produced over the past few years rather than what’s available for purchase. 

 

As for stock levels, the big go to stores will always run out of stock first, as more people frequent them, often due to discounted prices and will deplete the stock. Finding out a few smaller independents on your google search when you visit a city may secure you a few gems. One of my locals has quite a large stock holding, some sets from 2 or 3 years ago, dependant on what’s been popular. Obviously he’ll tend to order extra stock for local interest sets for Kyushu which are likely sold out already in the big retailers. You won’t always get the same discounts so expect to pay SRP, which you would at Kato anyway. Due to the timeframe from when the product you want was released, it’s unlikely to be found easily. It’ll be the stores without an online presence that are more likely to have those little gems long sold out elsewhere. 

 

I do think Kato has had some challenges though since they moved to their new factory. There’s been a few gaps in the track range but hopefully this is a temporary issue. 

 

As for whether you’re investing in the right vendor, that’s a personal perspective. All members of the forum will have their own take on this. I’m

very used to what Kato make and have always been happy with their product. Other manufacturers have either impressed or disappointed me from model to model centred around how Kato have made and presented their products.  

 

[Little-Kinder]

The easiest way to buy kato is online imo, between yodobashi, bic camera, amazon jp, or even hardoff or surugaya (or mercari or even yahoo auction)
I have many options (as i live here), but if you want to go into shops and buy yeah they don't have that much in stock unless it's the major shinkansen/trains

 

FYI if you browse on surugaya you can see which shop has which item, so even if you can't buy online you can still go inside and buy it

 

Kato owns two factories basically, a big one in saitama for the trains and a smaller one near by i think, for the rails.

It's not that big of a company, I just saw the video explaining how they made the Big boy, basically it's still assembled by hand in the end (even if the rest of the production is hightech)