Noisy Kato ICE 4

[Gordon Preller]

I have a Kato ICE  4 that runs great, but sounds like gravel in a concrete mixer when running. I've lubed gears and bearings, but the noise persists.  I've had it for a couple of years and it has done this since new out of the box. 

The noise is at a low volume, but I can just hear it over the background noise at train shows. 

 

None of my Fleischmann, Trix or other European trains make any noise other than a low hum.

 

Any ideas?

[Kamome]

Hard to say but I’ve certainly had a couple of gravelly-sounding motors from Kato in the past. I too have greased the gears in the trucks but wouldn’t fix the issue. In my case it’s a Kiha 82 and an E655 that are the issue as well as an E4 shinkansen that I rectified. 

 

Other things to look at would be to lightly grease the drive shaft ends but I doubt it’s that causing the noise. Not to rule it out entirely. I quite like the Tamiya Cera Grease (Boron Nitride)as a little goes a very long way, is relatively thick and is fine for plastic and metal gears.
 

The E4 had a small motor at one end which drove only a single bogie. Slightly over engineered but allowed the lower deck seating to be modelled. This was the noisiest motor I have owned. After some extensive tinkering, I ended up just replacing the motor chassis which fixed the issue. 

 

The Kiha 82 and E655 motor chassis (newer DCC EM13 compatible chassis) seem fine without the motor cover and body shells on so I think it’s down to the motor vibrations being amplified by the covering parts. I honestly think the only way to lose the noise would also be to switch out the motor chassis, which is pot luck on what you’ll get. Everything else I own runs super quiet. 

[Gordon Preller]

Thanks, Kamome!

[Kingmeow]

I agree.  I have the Kato Red Wing and lately it seems to be just a tad noisier than what I remembered it to be.  Then again it could my bad memory.  🤣  I just recently got a set of Kato E353 and the Panda train.  Both are absolutely silent.

 

After some slight investigation, there are only 3 places that I figure can generate the noise.  The two trucks and the motor/saddle combination.  It's really straight forward as unlike US locos/powered units, there is no split frame, no bearings, no gear mesh between truck tower gears and drive shaft and how the split frames are put back.

 

I figure when it gets to the point of being unbearable, I would replace the trucks, one at a time and then the motor saddle and finally the motor, in that order, as they are needed.  My guess is that at one of those stages the noise will go away.

 

I do notice, like Kamome said, that the noise tends to be amplified if I put the hatch back on the underside.

[Gordon Preller]

Food for thought. 

 

I am wondering whether the motor is not totally secure in it's mounting.  I've had buzzing speakers that were fixed by a mere drop of glue securing the speaker in its box. Perhaps the same solution might silence the motor noise (if that is what it is).  An adhesive with some elasticity. 

 

I'll take a look and report back. 

 

Cheers!

Edited December 5 by Gordon Preller
Spousal postus interruptus.

[cteno4]

Maybe try running it some with shell off in a quieter space to see if you can hear where the growl is coming from. That impossible to do at an event.

 

You might try making some plastic tapered shims and try wedging the motor in some to see if that helps. Most motors do have a tiny wiggle room in Japanese trains, but are usually held by electrical contacts pretty tightly.

 

Motor shaft bearings can make noise, but that’s a whine not a growl. If you do lube the motor shaft bearings use a very fine oil there as they can gum up easily with thicker lubricants.

 

Good luck and keep us posted if you do find any more out as it’s always good to gather more troubleshooting data!

 

jeff

[Gordon Preller]

Thanks, Jeff. I'm still working on headlights for my Faller buses, but I'll get back to the ICE-4 soon. Then I'll post a report. 

[Gordon Preller]

Okay, gang, here is what I found. I removed the shell and the noise persisted,but was a bit quieter. I cleaned wheels and gears. I lubed the motor shaft and gears on the bogies. 

 

While running the chassis to and fro on my programming track I noticed 4 flimsy pieces of plastic holding the ends of the motor mounts together. The arrow is indicating one. 

 

Using a toothpick, I applied a tiny bit of Lexel clear silicon adhesive to each piece where it touches the motor.  That totally solved the problem.  When dry I reassembled the motor car and inserted it in the train. Several laps of test run were very quiet. 

 

 

[cteno4]

Very cool! Not seen a motor mount make noise like this before but makes total sense if very thin it could vibrate and make a humm. 
 

Thanks for posting on your solution on this to add to the knowledge base!

 

cheers

 

jeff

[Kingmeow]

Interesting!  Were you able to figure out what they were for and why they were loose like that?  Like I said, trucks, motor or motor mount.  Unlike US split frame locomotives, the Japanese design is much simpler, cleaner, and more effective.  Other than that flapping piece of plastic you found.  😁

[Gordon Preller]

Kingmeow, the apparent function of these strips is to hold the ends of the motor mount box together at the proper distance from each other. There is not much tension or compression on them. 

 

I thank everyone who responded to the original post.  Without everyone's suggestions I would not have found the solution!

[cteno4]

Gordon,

 

You are most welcome. It’s what the forums are all about here and always great to see someone with a happy train again and we all learn a new thing to boot, everyone wins! I’ve torn apart maybe a hundred trains or more and that one was a new one on me.

 

jeff