Help needed re Kato Turnout!

[drt7uk]

Hello, I have a Kato Turnout 718-LEP718-15L, which goes from my main line into a long siding.

 

I want to power both the mainline and the siding (in other words, override the turnout 'frog').

 

So I've got a lead connecting both tracks, see the blue dot in the image below. Note the green dot is where the power connects to the mainline.

 

Will this cause any issues for the Turnout, and specifically the mechanism that switches the points of the turnout? Will it cause a short circuit?

 

Sorry for the weird question. I'm trying to work out whether my turnout is faulty, or whether I'm causing the problem with the wiring I've done.

 

Hope that makes sense??

[chrisdavis103]

Some clarification:

I assume you are running a DC layout?  If DC, can you mark the positive rail where you have the dots?
I assume the mainline is the track that continues through the straight portion?


 

[drt7uk]

Hi Chris, yes that's right, the mainline is straight portion that loops all the way around.

 

Yes it's DC, not digital. Not sure what you mean re positive rail, what is that? Power is going to the green dot, and then a wire connects the mainline track to the siding (represented by the blue dots).

[chrisdavis103]

in DC there is the notion of a positive rail and a negative rail - they must align across switches or you create a short.

On your power pack, it has indicators of + and - for the wires that connect to the track.   When you connect to the rails, one of the rails will be connected to the + wire, one to the - wire.   The rails need to maintain this across the turnouts.

[drt7uk]

Yes, I'm confident this isn't the issue, can confirm the wiring is correct.

 

Do you think there is any reason it might cause a problem for the turnout? Particularly the switch itself, I don't want to overload it.

[cteno4]

You can just add a feeder to the siding and just make sure it’s aligned the same way as the feeder on the mainline. You will have to add another feeder to the straight thru side (top left) of the point if your feeder on the incoming side (right) does not deliver power all the around to the straight side of the point.
 

Curious why you want the siding powered at the same time as the mainline?

 

jeff

[drt7uk]

2 minutes ago, cteno4 said:

You can just add a feeder to the siding and just make sure it’s aligned the same way as the feeder on the mainline. You will have to add another feeder to the straight thru side (top left) of the point if your feeder on the incoming side (right) does not deliver power all the around to the straight side of the point.
 

Curious why you want the siding powered at the same time as the mainline?

 

jeff

 

I just noticed a massive drop off in the power to the various locos in those sidings.

 

That and the turnout wasn't switching properly (I've decided to replace that)

[drt7uk]

Updated image showing the wiring...

[drt7uk]

4 minutes ago, cteno4 said:

You can just add a feeder to the siding and just make sure it’s aligned the same way as the feeder on the mainline. You will have to add another feeder to the straight thru side (top left) of the point if your feeder on the incoming side (right) does not deliver power all the around to the straight side of the point.
 

Curious why you want the siding powered at the same time as the mainline?

 

jeff

 

So there's no reason (if wired correctly) for this to overload or damage the turnout itself?

[chrisdavis103]

I'd just disconnect the the siding feeder and see if everything works as expected.   As cteno4 said, not sure why you have power on the other side of the turnout.

[Kamome]

Shouldn’t damage the turnout as there’s a plastic section in front of the frog to stop shorts as the frog polarity changes.

 

Difficult to determine what the issue is but as @cteno4 mentioned, the point will route power into the siding when it is thrown. If it’s a long passing siding, you could add another feeder to the other end on the mainline beyond the point to avoid voltage drop. That way either track will be dead when the other track is live. 

 

If you’re getting a big power drop, check the cleanliness of the track work and condition of joiners. Even if track is not joined exactly straight, you can get issues from my experience.  If you’ve set up and broken up the track many times, some new unijoiners may fix the issue. Also clean things like point blades but the internal workings of these points routes power. 

 

If you need to add another feeder, you could also look at the on/off switches for feeder rails that Kato produce if you wanted extra control over when it was powered but you’d need isolated joiners . 

[cteno4]

This wiring should work fine. Did switching the turnout effect the voltage drop on the siding? If not it’s not the point it’s probably your mainline power feed is far off to the point input side on the right. Have you tried wiring a mainline feeder right there before the point on the right side there?

 

your wiring diagram is fine. Instead of the jumper I would just put a feeder on the siding from your power buss you are using.

 

jeff

[cteno4]

If you have a digital multimeter you can crank the voltage up to like 10v and then measure each section of track to see voltage on each out from a power feed track. Usually you will find a track piece where the voltage does a good drop and that can indicate a unijoiner on that piece is not making good connection. If you don’t have a little multimeter it’s a very handy tool to have and decent inexpensive ones are like $10-20.

 

I’d look at your feeder placement and unijoiners and cleaning first and you may find a solution that keeps your power routing with the points.

 

our old club layout had 3m passing sidings that worked fine with mainline feeders just outside the points on each end.

 

Have you cleaned the track well? Using a good high dielectric contact cleaner like WD40 contact cleaner (not regular WD40 lubricant). This article shows the best science I’ve seen on rail gunk and best cleaners to use.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[drt7uk]

Thank you all. I think that my turnout is faulty so I have bought a replacement. I've had it many years now so it's not a surprise I don't think. I'll try to repair it though Kato turnouts seems to be the one thing I can't repair!

[MeTheSwede]

I had problems not too long ago with a locomotive stalling every time on a newly bought turnout. After testing with other locomotives and doing track cleaning, I unscrewed the bottom of the turnout, checked everything visible inside comparing it to a non-faulty turnout and before reassembling it I took photos in preparation for asking for help here. However then I did some more tests and realised the locomotives wheren't actually stalling due to the turnout, but due to a perfectly fine looking curve piece connected to it.

 

I don't know whether this text I'm writing has any bearing on your particular problem, but I just wanted to share my experience of how easy it is to blame the wrong part of the electric chain from plug to engine when something isn't working as expected.

[cteno4]

Yes I’ve had the same experience as the swede! On the club layouts I will sit there and watch and watch and watch if we have a recurring problem and many times it was not due to the thing being blamed to begin with! This is why going along with a multimeter can sometimes show a bad joiner not right where you are seeing the problem. A bad joiner will drop the voltage and then a few more lengths with good joiner finally the voltage drops to where you see the issue.  

 

On the turn out, I’ve opened up cranky turnouts and looked for grit and such in them or one of the little spring bars not quite seated right and found that fixes it and at times I have opened one poked around and reassembled to find it then working fine, didn’t know what I did but the process of opening up and reassembly fixed what ever it was! If you haven’t order the new one give it a shot.

 

jeff