Looking for help building a tram Layout

[Model_rockets]

As the title says I need some help building out a tram layout.After looking around at the track options I want to go with unitram but I have a few questions. first is this even a good choice? and if it is would the tv1 basic set and the tv2 expansion set be a good starting point for this layout? I like the track design and it has the design style that I am going for. but I do have a few worries mainly about the gaps that the tv2 has. Maybe I am missing something but it is isn't clear to me on what I need to buy in order to fill these in so any info on that would great. But of course you need some trams for a tram layout and for this I am thinking of going with this : https://www.plazajapan.com/4543736328087/ and adding the TM-LRT01 powered chassis. so A. would this work for this layout and B. is this a good model overall and are there any other trams I should take a look at for this project? Lastly powering this layout this is where I am honestly not sure where to start. with the layout I am planning on building having dual tracks I would like to be able to run two trams at the same time but of course with dcc not being an option would I just have to run one power pack and have the trams simply run at the same speed? or can this layout be wired up to have two power packs one for each set of tracks? and what power pack or packs would be my best option? Also sorry if these are basic questions just very new and honestly confused with all the different information out there. Any help or advice would be great. btw I am in the US so if I need to buy anything to adapter the power packs to work please do let me know.

link to the unitram sets I am looking at:
https://banzaihobby.com/products/kato-40-812-unitram-road-track-expansion-set-tv2-n-scale?pr_prod_strat=e5_desc&pr_rec_id=a6f782b0b&pr_rec_pid=8827673608468&pr_ref_pid=8329849995540&pr_seq=uniform
https://banzaihobby.com/products/40-811-unitram-tv1-basic-set?variant=44398028947732

[Model_rockets]

I was also looking at tomix tram track would that be a better option than unitram?

[Junech]

Hi and welcome to the hobby,

 

Let me answer some of your questions. But first, there is a lot of "it depends" here because of the general/basic nature of the questions.

 

For the track questions, in general, you could build a tram layout with every still-sold track system. The differences will mostly come down to the process you will go through. So, in the end, it comes down to your space, money, preference, skill level, and what you want the future layout to be. To help you further with the track question it would be good to think about the basics of what your layout should be and put the track question aside for a while.

 

There are a lot of different tram lines around the world that can be the source of inspiration for a possible layout. But even staying only in Japan there is a lot to choose from. There are tram lines with single and double tracks and railways that look close to a tram as well. To name just 4 possible inspirations: Hiroshima Electric Railway (double track going through a downtown area with highrise buildings), Man’yōsen in Takaoka (single track going through a typical Japanese town), Enoshima Electric Railway (leaning more into a railway but is a single track line with buildings coming as close to the track as they can) or the since 2005 closed Meitetsu Ibi-Linie (which was like Enoshima Electric Railway but ran through the mountains). So there are a lot of possibilities to look into and decide what your layout should be.

 

Back to the tram tracks from Kato and Tomix:

The Kato one only allows limited options for the track layout. Everything besides something like the Hiroshima Electric Railway won't really be possible with this one or require a lot more work. So if you want anything else Tomix is the better option. The missing pieces in the Unitram layout need to be filled with the Street Expansion Sets. They are just streets but I haven't looked into which one specifically.

 

On the topic of trams itself:

The model should run on the layout of whatever track system you choose in the end. I sadly can't talk about the quality of the model itself but Tomytec normally does good models. For additional trams, Hobby Search has a nice list of currently sold tram models and you can pretty much choose the model that looks nice to you.

 

Powering:
You have mainly two options. The first one is to power everything with one power pack and connect the two tracks while switching the sides you connect the cables with. That way they will go in opposite directions. The downside is that they will run at the same speed and stop together. The second option would be connecting each track to its own power pack. The easiest option for a power pack would be to take the power pack from the brand of the track system since they are designed to be matched. If you get them with the original Japanese cable you will need an adapter but if you buy them locally you might as well get a cable working for the US.

[MeTheSwede]

Welcome to the forum!

 

Quote

but I do have a few worries mainly about the gaps that the tv2 has. Maybe I am missing something but it is isn't clear to me on what I need to buy in order to fill these in so any info on that would great

 

The product description at Hobby Search https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/11008177 says the third set you need is 40-822

 

Quote

I was also looking at tomix tram track would that be a better option than unitram?

 

The appeal of Unitram is that you can assemble a layout in a day and have it "finished". It doesn't require any actual model making skills, you just assemble the pieces and put down buildings, vehicles and other accessories.

 

The disadvantage of Unitram is that the easyness also means you are quite limited in what you can do with it. You are limited to those large rectangular city blocks surrounded by 6 lane roads (4 lanes if not counting the tram lanes) and the size of the layout have to follow the plates.

 

If you go with Tomix you'll have to make your own streets, but it's up to you whether you go 6 lane, 4 lane, 2 lanes or even 1 lane and you can have track cross bridges, or go through tunnels or whatever you want. A layout can be almost any size and shape and it's possible to make micro layouts like this for instance which is 297 x 420mm.

 

 

 

So Tomix is the option for people who want to build their own stuff. The Tomix tram track is 6mm thick, so 6mm foamboard (or multiple thinner boards adding up to 6mm) is needed to make roads. You can put the tram track on top of the foamboard as a template and cut along the sides with a craft knife. Then it's a matter of painting and adding road markings and so on.

 

 

As for the large Unitram plan you are considering (the figure 8 layout) I think it's easy to underestimate the number of buildings and road vehicles needed to make it look good. Just thought I should mention that, before you decide to go all in.

 

Anyway, there a many people here who are happy to answer any future questions you have (to the limit of our abilities), partly because we hope we'll get to see pictures of a future layout. 😁

 

[brill27mcb]

Junech and MeTheSwede have both made good points.

 

If you want tracks in the street, the two ready-made options are Tomix "Wide Tram" and Kato "Unitram." Unitram offers a complete "finished" look, but costs more, takes up more space, and most of the space consists of streets and buildings, not the tram lines themselves. (That Unitram TV1+TV2 intersection layout is 930mm (37 inches) deep, and that's without adding the far 2 lanes and a back row of buildings along the rear street. That may be deeper than your table, and 37 inches is also about at the limit of how far you can reach over the layout from the front to do work if it's up against a wall in the back.

 

Wide Tram can make a single track, double track or even a 3-track line, and you can use the matching Tomytec Moving Bus System plain road sections if you want to easily add pre-made additional automobile lanes. With Wide Tram you can make 30- and 60-degree curves in your road; with Unitram you are limited to 90-degree minimum curves, and they are decorated to be intersections, not curves in a road. Unitram streets are also decorated for left-hand traffic, so if you want North American or European-style right-hand traffic, that's a consideration, too. The side edges of Wide Tram track look unfinished unless you make custom fill-in sections cut from thin foamboard to make your layout more finished looking. Both Wide Tram and Unitram offer the option to transition on your layout to regular ballasted track. Tomix offers "Mini" and "Super Mini" curve radii that match the Wide Tram paved curve radii, while Unitrack offers "Compact" curves in 183mm, 150mm and 117mm radii suitable for trams. Unitram has a double-track paved turnout and also regular-Unitrack 150mm radius 45-degree "Compact" points/turnouts, while Tomix has 140mm radius 30-degree regular track "Mini" points, which if you use hobby knives and razor saws can be paved using their matching #3079 track paving kit for in-street use.

 

An important question is what do you mean by "layout" and where do your interests lie? Do you want to spend your time mainly building and detailing a permanent, highly sceniced layout, do you just want to have a place to run your trams, or are you somewhere in between those extremes? I know modelers who spend all of their time building their layout and actually rarely run the layout, and others that are happy with a oval of track on a table or a very basic layout and enjoy watching the trams run or swapping additional trams onto the track to enjoy them. How do you want to spend your time, and your money? You can easily end up spending more on cars, trucks and buses for an urban layout than on the trams themselves.

 

From my perspective, I would decide on Unitram or Wide Tram first. Take the time to search this JNS Forum for "Unitram" and "Wide Tram" and check out all of the topic threads that come up, particularly for layout photos and plans that you can study.

 

For Kato Unitram, I would buy the TV1 basic oval first, set it up and get hands-on familiar with it. Beyond that, I would gradually purchase separate TV3 and TV5 straight track packs. I would also buy two Kato power packs (one for each track), or temporarily just one power pack plus a 3-way extension cord track cable (#24-827 or #24-833) to connect the pack to both tracks. I would hold off on the TV2 intersection add-on, and wait (hopefully) until later this month when the Unitram Turnout track switch pieces are to become available again for the first time in several years, buy a pair of them and play with longer, less-deep layout ideas. (See particularly bill937ca's Euro-themed and other Unitram layout postings here for ideas.) Here's a Unitram layout I have been toying with that has some character. This is a return loop to return loop design, so it's really only a one-track layout that can be operated with a single power pack. It fits on a typical 72 inch by 30 inch folding plastic table. It has a downtown block on the left end, and an off-street tram storage / maintenance yard on the upper right loop.

 

 

For Tomix Wide Tram, I would start with two oval 91086 MA-WT "Mini" curve sets, plus two power packs like the #5507 N-600, or temporarily one N-600 plus a #5812 "Y" branching cable to connect it to both tracks. (See the "EasyTrolley" website link in my signature for additional details and ideas.) Then I would add to it over time. You can use AnyRail layout design software to try out designs for expanded layouts (www.anyrail.com); it's pretty intuitive and the free trial version is good for up to 50 track pieces. Here's my present Tomix tram layout, which also fits on a 72 x 30 inch table, so it's a good comparison to the Unitram layout above:

 

 

Here's an older photo, on a 4 x 8 foot plywood layout table with 2 Unitrack railroad ovals around it. (As you can see, I am a scenic minimalist, and I like to alter the track design from time to time.)

 

Whatever your choice, I would buy 2 trams (at least! 😀) to run. Rather than a Portram, you may want to look at the Kato Hiroshima Greenmover LEX or the LEX-based "MyTram" models. They're a very affordable engineering marvel, with tiny drives, interiors and an option for interior lighting. Also check out other vendors than just Banzai Hobby if you have not done so already, like Hobby Search Japan, Plaza Japan or RG-Rokko. All are easy to deal with in English. In general you can run any brand N-gauge tram on any brand of N-gauge track.

 

Hope this helps!

 

Rich K.

[Model_rockets]

Thanks to everyone for their input. after reading through and thinking about what I want I think I will end up going with tomix track mainly because I can freely design my layout and just have more freedom. and honestly I would like to add a tram yard into this model and I think that the tomix track would be the best option for allowing me to do that. And to answer brills question about what I want out of this layout the plan is to build this into a rather detailed model of a city with a working tram system and I want to add this city into a larger layout with high speed rail connecting it to another smaller city. But since I am new to the hobby I thought that the best way to do this larger project is to break it into smaller bits. this does also bring up another question for me which is how would yall recommend modeling this tram system running into a station. I don't mean the main platform but more what would be best to model it coming to the station on the ground level. and the station I am considering is the kato viaduct station btw.

 

Edited September 2 by Model_rockets

[Model_rockets]

2 hours ago, brill27mcb said:

Junech and MeTheSwede have both made good points.

 

If you want tracks in the street, the two ready-made options are Tomix "Wide Tram" and Kato "Unitram." Unitram offers a complete "finished" look, but costs more, takes up more space, and most of the space consists of streets and buildings, not the tram lines themselves. (That Unitram TV1+TV2 intersection layout is 930mm (37 inches) deep, and that's without adding the far 2 lanes and a back row of buildings along the rear street. That may be deeper than your table, and 37 inches is also about at the limit of how far you can reach over the layout from the front to do work if it's up against a wall in the back.

 

Wide Tram can make a single track, double track or even a 3-track line, and you can use the matching Tomytec Moving Bus System plain road sections if you want to easily add pre-made additional automobile lanes. With Wide Tram you can make 30- and 60-degree curves in your road; with Unitram you are limited to 90-degree minimum curves, and they are decorated to be intersections, not curves in a road. Unitram streets are also decorated for left-hand traffic, so if you want North American or European-style right-hand traffic, that's a consideration, too. The side edges of Wide Tram track look unfinished unless you make custom fill-in sections cut from thin foamboard to make your layout more finished looking. Both Wide Tram and Unitram offer the option to transition on your layout to regular ballasted track. Tomix offers "Mini" and "Super Mini" curve radii that match the Wide Tram paved curve radii, while Unitrack offers "Compact" curves in 183mm, 150mm and 117mm radii suitable for trams. Unitram has a double-track paved turnout and also regular-Unitrack 150mm radius 45-degree "Compact" points/turnouts, while Tomix has 140mm radius 30-degree regular track "Mini" points, which if you use hobby knives and razor saws can be paved using their matching #3079 track paving kit for in-street use.

 

An important question is what do you mean by "layout" and where do your interests lie? Do you want to spend your time mainly building and detailing a permanent, highly sceniced layout, do you just want to have a place to run your trams, or are you somewhere in between those extremes? I know modelers who spend all of their time building their layout and actually rarely run the layout, and others that are happy with a oval of track on a table or a very basic layout and enjoy watching the trams run or swapping additional trams onto the track to enjoy them. How do you want to spend your time, and your money? You can easily end up spending more on cars, trucks and buses for an urban layout than on the trams themselves.

 

From my perspective, I would decide on Unitram or Wide Tram first. Take the time to search this JNS Forum for "Unitram" and "Wide Tram" and check out all of the topic threads that come up, particularly for layout photos and plans that you can study.

 

For Kato Unitram, I would buy the TV1 basic oval first, set it up and get hands-on familiar with it. Beyond that, I would gradually purchase separate TV3 and TV5 straight track packs. I would also buy two Kato power packs (one for each track), or temporarily just one power pack plus a 3-way extension cord track cable (#24-827 or #24-833) to connect the pack to both tracks. I would hold off on the TV2 intersection add-on, and wait (hopefully) until later this month when the Unitram Turnout track switch pieces are to become available again for the first time in several years, buy a pair of them and play with longer, less-deep layout ideas. (See particularly bill937ca's Euro-themed and other Unitram layout postings here for ideas.) Here's a Unitram layout I have been toying with that has some character. This is a return loop to return loop design, so it's really only a one-track layout that can be operated with a single power pack. It fits on a typical 72 inch by 30 inch folding plastic table. It has a downtown block on the left end, and an off-street tram storage / maintenance yard on the upper right loop.

 

 

For Tomix Wide Tram, I would start with two oval 91086 MA-WT "Mini" curve sets, plus two power packs like the #5507 N-600, or temporarily one N-600 plus a #5812 "Y" branching cable to connect it to both tracks. (See the "EasyTrolley" website link in my signature for additional details and ideas.) Then I would add to it over time. You can use AnyRail layout design software to try out designs for expanded layouts (www.anyrail.com); it's pretty intuitive and the free trial version is good for up to 50 track pieces. Here's my present Tomix tram layout, which also fits on a 72 x 30 inch table, so it's a good comparison to the Unitram layout above:

 

 

Here's an older photo, on a 4 x 8 foot plywood layout table with 2 Unitrack railroad ovals around it. (As you can see, I am a scenic minimalist, and I like to alter the track design from time to time.)

 

Whatever your choice, I would buy 2 trams (at least! 😀) to run. Rather than a Portram, you may want to look at the Kato Hiroshima Greenmover LEX or the LEX-based "MyTram" models. They're a very affordable engineering marvel, with tiny drives, interiors and an option for interior lighting. Also check out other vendors than just Banzai Hobby if you have not done so already, like Hobby Search Japan, Plaza Japan or RG-Rokko. All are easy to deal with in English. In general you can run any brand N-gauge tram on any brand of N-gauge track.

 

Hope this helps!

 

Rich K.

is there a specific reason why you would recommend at looking at other trams then the portarm?

[Model_rockets]

Now I am reconsidering unitram as the street detail on it is quite good. how reasonable would it be to model a layout with tomix tracks that matches that level of detail in the roads and overhead poles and stops and all that? Because I am starting to think maybe the unitram is a good base for the layout and that I can then spend my time modeling the buildings. sorry for the back and forth just so many options.

[cteno4]

I’ll toss in my two cents. I have the basic unitram loop and have tight radius Tomix tram track, and made my own street running rail (from Unitrak) on Ttrak. 
 

the unitram loop I’ve mainly used at some trains shows so we could let kids run some trams. I also set it up at home to see what the scenery potential could be. I found it to be a bit too wide and with too many set markings and such. Basic loop is very small but takes up a bit of room with the wide double streets and big curve areas. Unitram was basically set up to the old standard 25mm Unitrak track spacing for Ttrak. The straights are 25mm spaced (spacing you get with two pieces of Unitrak right next to each other and the curves flair out with different radiuses (this had to happen to make 90 degree curve happen with two tracks not at the normal 33mm Unitrak geometry spacing). The track spacing looks like many of the tighter prototype trams and there are tram corners that do flairs like this with the outer track to avoid tram corners from clipping on the tight radiuses. Problem with the unitram is once using it you are locked into a pretty narrow sets of layouts to use. Also I found the small bit of building is the center were a bit diminished by the large amount of road and tram strips surrounding it. It’s a pretty small block. You can add structure around the outside to help this, but this then requires more room and will limit tram viewing if they are taller structures. Roads seem prototypically wide, but at model scale this usually looks a bit too wide as our visual frame of reference on roads in real life is very different than looking at a tram loop form 2-3’ away from some height.

 

The up side of the Tomix tram track is there are a lot of radius and variations you can do with small radius points to do some operations or yard with. Downside is no road way and you need to add that. This is not horrible to do with some shimming under some styrene sheets and either paint your road markings, use ruboffs markings, decals markings, pin tape, or draw your own roads on the computer and print them out and laminate them down (this is what I did in Ttrak with success). Plus with cutting road pieces on curves is you can use the track to easily mark the radius to cut or even use a radius cutter to cut the curves.

 

On my old standard Ttrak street car modules I used thin photo board (it’s a thin very high density mat board used to mount photos to) on top of a layer of foam core to create a road surface that I could put right up against the edge of the track. The thicknesses were just right so that the photo board surface was about 1mm below the rail head, I then laminated down a printed street sheets on 50lb matte surface drawing paper (the matte surface gives just a tad of texture, but you have to use inkjet saw laser printer toner will fuse all the surface texture flat). This made the road right at rail head height. Between the rails I used a piece of 1/4” x 060 styrene between the rails with a strip of printed paper on top. This leaves a nice 1.3mm flangeway. The benefit of this is you can draw your street markings as you like them and set your pavement color. You can even draw in details like manhole covers, drains, cracks, and even tire and oil/exhaust tracks. I love it really flexible to do your markings and add loads of details and play with a lot of different options before you decide.
 

Big down side is doing curves is a total PITA! Trying to cut road surface the complex Unitrak standard 25mm curves is really a challenge. I did a few attempts using templates I made in xtrakcad, but cutting them really cleanly in the dense photo board is really tough by hand with a blade. I punted and used the scroll saw with a very fine blade it worked pretty well, but you need a scroll saw to get it tight. Cutting the center road section under the track is equally as challenging. Again I took the xtrakcad template and put the road surface print on top of it. The one 180 I made I didn’t like so much as the roads then got into very big intersections (that I also don’t line in the unitram) and I decided to cheat and have one end of the loop be a rural scene w.o roads and the other curved end I buried under an elevated train station going perpendicular across loop. Benefit of this is it hid the trams for a bit at one end and that’s nice.

 

On the streetcar Ttrak I also squeezed the road width down about 20%. This allowed for 2 lanes on the outside of the tram line in the 1.5” at the front of a module and just looked better/right when looking at the layout. Again it something to do with the layout view point not matching up to our usual views and visual memory of roads at street level and up close.

 

In the end if I were doing a tram only layout with street track and roadways I’d go with Tomix tram track for its flexibly and ease of adding your road surface next to the tram track. I think the unitram is just very limiting and the corners just don’t feel right and structure space is limited.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[Model_rockets]

17 minutes ago, cteno4 said:

I’ll toss in my two cents. I have the basic unitram loop and have tight radius Tomix tram track, and made my own street running rail (from Unitrak) on Ttrak. 
 

the unitram loop I’ve mainly used at some trains shows so we could let kids run some trams. I also set it up at home to see what the scenery potential could be. I found it to be a bit too wide and with too many set markings and such. Basic loop is very small but takes up a bit of room with the wide double streets and big curve areas. Unitram was basically set up to the old standard 25mm Unitrak track spacing for Ttrak. The straights are 25mm spaced (spacing you get with two pieces of Unitrak right next to each other and the curves flair out with different radiuses (this had to happen to make 90 degree curve happen with two tracks not at the normal 33mm Unitrak geometry spacing). The track spacing looks like many of the tighter prototype trams and there are tram corners that do flairs like this with the outer track to avoid tram corners from clipping on the tight radiuses. Problem with the unitram is once using it you are locked into a pretty narrow sets of layouts to use. Also I found the small bit of building is the center were a bit diminished by the large amount of road and tram strips surrounding it. It’s a pretty small block. You can add structure around the outside to help this, but this then requires more room and will limit tram viewing if they are taller structures. Roads seem prototypically wide, but at model scale this usually looks a bit too wide as our visual frame of reference on roads in real life is very different than looking at a tram loop form 2-3’ away from some height.

 

The up side of the Tomix tram track is there are a lot of radius and variations you can do with small radius points to do some operations or yard with. Downside is no road way and you need to add that. This is not horrible to do with some shimming under some styrene sheets and either paint your road markings, use ruboffs markings, decals markings, pin tape, or draw your own roads on the computer and print them out and laminate them down (this is what I did in Ttrak with success). Plus with cutting road pieces on curves is you can use the track to easily mark the radius to cut or even use a radius cutter to cut the curves.

 

On my old standard Ttrak street car modules I used thin photo board (it’s a thin very high density mat board used to mount photos to) on top of a layer of foam core to create a road surface that I could put right up against the edge of the track. The thicknesses were just right so that the photo board surface was about 1mm below the rail head, I then laminated down a printed street sheets on 50lb matte surface drawing paper (the matte surface gives just a tad of texture, but you have to use inkjet saw laser printer toner will fuse all the surface texture flat). This made the road right at rail head height. Between the rails I used a piece of 1/4” x 060 styrene between the rails with a strip of printed paper on top. This leaves a nice 1.3mm flangeway. The benefit of this is you can draw your street markings as you like them and set your pavement color. You can even draw in details like manhole covers, drains, cracks, and even tire and oil/exhaust tracks. I love it really flexible to do your markings and add loads of details and play with a lot of different options before you decide.
 

Big down side is doing curves is a total PITA! Trying to cut road surface the complex Unitrak standard 25mm curves is really a challenge. I did a few attempts using templates I made in xtrakcad, but cutting them really cleanly in the dense photo board is really tough by hand with a blade. I punted and used the scroll saw with a very fine blade it worked pretty well, but you need a scroll saw to get it tight. Cutting the center road section under the track is equally as challenging. Again I took the xtrakcad template and put the road surface print on top of it. The one 180 I made I didn’t like so much as the roads then got into very big intersections (that I also don’t line in the unitram) and I decided to cheat and have one end of the loop be a rural scene w.o roads and the other curved end I buried under an elevated train station going perpendicular across loop. Benefit of this is it hid the trams for a bit at one end and that’s nice.

 

On the streetcar Ttrak I also squeezed the road width down about 20%. This allowed for 2 lanes on the outside of the tram line in the 1.5” at the front of a module and just looked better/right when looking at the layout. Again it something to do with the layout view point not matching up to our usual views and visual memory of roads at street level and up close.

 

In the end if I were doing a tram only layout with street track and roadways I’d go with Tomix tram track for its flexibly and ease of adding your road surface next to the tram track. I think the unitram is just very limiting and the corners just don’t feel right and structure space is limited.

 

cheers

 

jeff

Thanks for your input. and I do see a lot of your points when it comes to the tomix track pros and I think that I to will choose that for this layout. Also wow that is a pretty cool method for making roads. always wows me about how many methods there in this hobby. by chance would you happen to have photos or guides for the process you recommend for the layout I want to make? Also for tomix tram tracks would it be hard to model some of the tomix normal track to match up mainly like switches and what not?

[Model_rockets]

8 hours ago, brill27mcb said:

Junech and MeTheSwede have both made good points.

 

If you want tracks in the street, the two ready-made options are Tomix "Wide Tram" and Kato "Unitram." Unitram offers a complete "finished" look, but costs more, takes up more space, and most of the space consists of streets and buildings, not the tram lines themselves. (That Unitram TV1+TV2 intersection layout is 930mm (37 inches) deep, and that's without adding the far 2 lanes and a back row of buildings along the rear street. That may be deeper than your table, and 37 inches is also about at the limit of how far you can reach over the layout from the front to do work if it's up against a wall in the back.

 

Wide Tram can make a single track, double track or even a 3-track line, and you can use the matching Tomytec Moving Bus System plain road sections if you want to easily add pre-made additional automobile lanes. With Wide Tram you can make 30- and 60-degree curves in your road; with Unitram you are limited to 90-degree minimum curves, and they are decorated to be intersections, not curves in a road. Unitram streets are also decorated for left-hand traffic, so if you want North American or European-style right-hand traffic, that's a consideration, too. The side edges of Wide Tram track look unfinished unless you make custom fill-in sections cut from thin foamboard to make your layout more finished looking. Both Wide Tram and Unitram offer the option to transition on your layout to regular ballasted track. Tomix offers "Mini" and "Super Mini" curve radii that match the Wide Tram paved curve radii, while Unitrack offers "Compact" curves in 183mm, 150mm and 117mm radii suitable for trams. Unitram has a double-track paved turnout and also regular-Unitrack 150mm radius 45-degree "Compact" points/turnouts, while Tomix has 140mm radius 30-degree regular track "Mini" points, which if you use hobby knives and razor saws can be paved using their matching #3079 track paving kit for in-street use.

 

An important question is what do you mean by "layout" and where do your interests lie? Do you want to spend your time mainly building and detailing a permanent, highly sceniced layout, do you just want to have a place to run your trams, or are you somewhere in between those extremes? I know modelers who spend all of their time building their layout and actually rarely run the layout, and others that are happy with a oval of track on a table or a very basic layout and enjoy watching the trams run or swapping additional trams onto the track to enjoy them. How do you want to spend your time, and your money? You can easily end up spending more on cars, trucks and buses for an urban layout than on the trams themselves.

 

From my perspective, I would decide on Unitram or Wide Tram first. Take the time to search this JNS Forum for "Unitram" and "Wide Tram" and check out all of the topic threads that come up, particularly for layout photos and plans that you can study.

 

For Kato Unitram, I would buy the TV1 basic oval first, set it up and get hands-on familiar with it. Beyond that, I would gradually purchase separate TV3 and TV5 straight track packs. I would also buy two Kato power packs (one for each track), or temporarily just one power pack plus a 3-way extension cord track cable (#24-827 or #24-833) to connect the pack to both tracks. I would hold off on the TV2 intersection add-on, and wait (hopefully) until later this month when the Unitram Turnout track switch pieces are to become available again for the first time in several years, buy a pair of them and play with longer, less-deep layout ideas. (See particularly bill937ca's Euro-themed and other Unitram layout postings here for ideas.) Here's a Unitram layout I have been toying with that has some character. This is a return loop to return loop design, so it's really only a one-track layout that can be operated with a single power pack. It fits on a typical 72 inch by 30 inch folding plastic table. It has a downtown block on the left end, and an off-street tram storage / maintenance yard on the upper right loop.

 

 

For Tomix Wide Tram, I would start with two oval 91086 MA-WT "Mini" curve sets, plus two power packs like the #5507 N-600, or temporarily one N-600 plus a #5812 "Y" branching cable to connect it to both tracks. (See the "EasyTrolley" website link in my signature for additional details and ideas.) Then I would add to it over time. You can use AnyRail layout design software to try out designs for expanded layouts (www.anyrail.com); it's pretty intuitive and the free trial version is good for up to 50 track pieces. Here's my present Tomix tram layout, which also fits on a 72 x 30 inch table, so it's a good comparison to the Unitram layout above:

 

 

Here's an older photo, on a 4 x 8 foot plywood layout table with 2 Unitrack railroad ovals around it. (As you can see, I am a scenic minimalist, and I like to alter the track design from time to time.)

 

Whatever your choice, I would buy 2 trams (at least! 😀) to run. Rather than a Portram, you may want to look at the Kato Hiroshima Greenmover LEX or the LEX-based "MyTram" models. They're a very affordable engineering marvel, with tiny drives, interiors and an option for interior lighting. Also check out other vendors than just Banzai Hobby if you have not done so already, like Hobby Search Japan, Plaza Japan or RG-Rokko. All are easy to deal with in English. In general you can run any brand N-gauge tram on any brand of N-gauge track.

 

Hope this helps!

 

Rich K.

Also on the topic of powering this would getting two of these sets be a good starting point? they come with power packs and after looking at some possible layout designs I think that the tracks they have could work well. https://www.plazajapan.com/4543736900993/

[cteno4]

There are quite a number of ways to do streets! I have a few of the decals and rub off transfers for street markings but I find them hard to place carefully and they can get expensive. Pin tape works well to do lines, but won’t do things like turn lanes and other markings. Maskign and painting likes is very tedious. This is why I love the print out method. In a simple 2d vector program you can easily do your lines and other markings, and street details digitally and add road color and texture. Nice iterative process to get what you want and play with different ideas before gluing things down. 
 

sorry I’ve not done a tutorial on the printed streets. It’s pretty straightforward to just start drawing your street lines and marking. I used google street and satellite view to figure out the markings I wanted and also traced some of the markings from the decal and rub off sets I have to add to the print out.

 

its nice to jsut do some trial and error to figure out what you want and find the best way to get there. Give it a whirl and ask questions! 
 

You can also try doing some papercraft structures for playing around with ideas before you have all your structures. You just print these out on card stock and cut them out and glue or tape together (depending on how nice you want them). I have some free ones I can send you I’ve collected from the web over the years, just pm me. There are nicer sets you can buy electronic files for and print out on your own. You can get fancy on these and print out a wall two times and cut out windows and doors and then cut out the windows and doors from the other copy slightly larger to then paste behind the wall with the new openings to give them a tad of depth. Same goes gluing on architectural details on top of the walls to give some relief. At 1/150 jt doesn’t take much to give enough visual relief.

 

you are jus starting in the hobby here. Take it slow and do it in parts like you said. First get some track and trams and a power pack or two and play some. This will get you going. Simple use of paper for streets laid down and papercraft structures (or even small boxes) can start to show you what simple scenery and structures can look like before you start investing in structures much. The hobby has a lot of facets to it and each have their skill sets, learning curves and such. Scenery is probably one of the more diverse aspects of the hobby and there are usually multiple ways to do any scenery bit (as you see with just streets) and it’s best to experiment with more than one jsut a little bit and you usually find one just speaks to your hands, desires, and needs.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[MeTheSwede]

Quote

Also for tomix tram tracks would it be hard to model some of the tomix normal track to match up mainly like switches and what not?

 

I'm not quite sure what you mean here, but tram track and normal track are fully compatible if that's what you mean. Manual mini points come in this track set https://1999.co.jp/eng/10046278 which is a good start if you want to try out some switches. The manual points can be upgraded to electrically operated (link in product description) if you'd like to do that later. There is a Tomix product for making the mini points into tram points by adding "road" to them, but I don't think this looks good, large holes remain in the street as can be seen in the video above. Therefore I would prefer to design a layout where points are located in areas where there is no street running.

 

My thread on the micro layout with street running that I'm building with Tomix track might provide some inspiration and help as I often try to explain and show what I'm doing during construction:

 

https://jnsforum.com/community/topic/19987-building-a-26-x-75-cm-n-scale-layout-for-ikea-billy/page/2/

 

 

Quote

Also on the topic of powering this would getting two of these sets be a good starting point? they come with power packs and after looking at some possible layout designs I think that the tracks they have could work well. https://www.plazajapan.com/4543736900993/

 

One of those is certainly a good start. Getting some 103mm and 177mm curves and the set with straights of various lengths can be useful for just having an assortment of pieces to experiment with.

 

 

Here's a piece of general advice I'd like to give to anyone starting in the hobby:

Put all your plans about the big dream layout that has a bit of everything to the side for now. It's so easy to start a project that quickly turns too daunting to ever get finished or where you halfway down the line realise the plan wasn't really that good as you though. Start very small. Make a practice layout or practice diorama first. Make something you know you can finish in a reasonable time frame. This can be something like a micro layout with a very small loop, or it can be just a small section, in your case a piece of road with a tram track down the middle and some houses on the side and maybe a tree or something. This is just to practice making a street, build confidence in doing basic stuff and maybe find some techniques you feel works for you.

 

 

 

 

[MeTheSwede]

12 hours ago, cteno4 said:

I have a few of the decals and rub off transfers for street markings but I find them hard to place carefully and they can get expensive.

 

Personally when I used the rub off transfers from Tsugawa https://1999.co.jp/eng/10021994 https://1999.co.jp/eng/10021995 https://1999.co.jp/eng/10032598 I found them pretty easy to use. They just needed a lot of rubbing. The 止まる (stop) text was a bit tricky, but no problem with zebra crossings and such.

 

This is rub off zebra crossings from the Tsugawa set and one mm masking tape for road lines:

https://jnsforum.com/community/topic/18162-yamahama-a-newbie-constructs-a-somewhat-ambitious-n-scale-layout/?do=findComment&comment=243138

For something made by a rather lazy newbie like me, I was quite satisfied. 🙂

 

Maybe today I would chose to put down two lines of masking tape and paint between them using the masking tape as intended instead.

 

Doing printed roads seems like a very good solution. But then I would like to start with some file someone has already worked with, so I could just copy and move objects into place, rather than start from scratch.

 

[cteno4]

2 hours ago, MeTheSwede said:

Here's a piece of general advice I'd like to give to anyone starting in the hobby:

Put all your plans about the big dream layout that has a bit of everything to the side for now. It's so easy to start a project that quickly turns too daunting to ever get finished or where you halfway down the line realise the plan wasn't really that good as you though. Start very small. Make a practice layout or practice diorama first. Make something you know you can finish in a reasonable time frame. This can be something like a micro layout with a very small loop, or it can be just a small section, in your case a piece of road with a tram track down the middle and some houses on the side and maybe a tree or something. This is just to practice making a street, build confidence in doing basic stuff and maybe find some techniques you feel works for you.

I completely agree with this! I’ve see so many people burn themselves out fast hitting a wall on something that was just too big to get over. Start small, play, and experiment. This will tell you what you like and don’t like in a layout (this is very different playing with it than looking at pictures of other layouts or at track planning programs) and the aspects of the hobby you like and don’t like to do or need some honing of skills to get good enough for you to be satisfied. Everyone has a different set of like and dislikes, skills, experiences, and resources and it’s important to find that happy permutation that satisfies you as it’s your railroad! Also layouts are all about tradeoffs, like most things in life you can’t have it all and you need to find the combination of things that maximizes everything for you, but be ready to give some things up now and then and not let it bother you and keep focused on maximizing the total sum.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[brill27mcb]

22 hours ago, Model_rockets said:

is there a specific reason why you would recommend at looking at other trams then the portarm?

 

The choice is yours, but I find the that Portram model to be pretty plain (mostly black and white). Compare it with these:

Kato Hiroshima Green Mover LEX  https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10707592

Kato MyTram Red (generic basic paint scheme)  https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10780451

Kato MyTram Blue (generic basic paint scheme)  https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10780450

 

Part of the attraction of trams is their colorfulness.

 

Rich K.

[brill27mcb]

16 hours ago, Model_rockets said:

Also on the topic of powering this would getting two of these sets be a good starting point? they come with power packs and after looking at some possible layout designs I think that the tracks they have could work well. https://www.plazajapan.com/4543736900993/

 

Two of those sets would only give you 140mm curves, whereas two 91086 track sets give you enough 140mm and 177mm curves to make a double-track oval. Also that set only seems to include 60-degree curves, so you can't make a 90-degree "corner" curve. (Oddly, the components list for this set does not match the photos, and I trust the photos.) But you could order 177mm radius track separately, as well as the 140mm radius track pack, which includes 30-degree curves. The power pack in that set is a small budget one, good if you never plan to expand your oval. It only goes up to 8 volts instead of 12, only produces 0.3 amps of current instead of 1 amp, and does not seem to have the side connectors on it to power points controllers. The wall wart that comes with it only handles 100 V AC (for domestic Japanese use) instead of being a more universal 100-240 V AC design.

 

 

Rich K.

[KateM]

55 minutes ago, brill27mcb said:

Also that set only seems to include 60-degree curves, so you can't make a 90-degree "corner" curve. (Oddly, the components list for this set does not match the photos, and I trust the photos.)

The set indeed comes with 60-degree curves only. Tomix WideTram plastic pieces do not come in 60 degrees (and neither in 140mm straight), they use two 30-degree segments joined together (or 2 70mm straight pieces respectively), however the metal rail is continuous so the segments cannot be separated. You can see on the photos that there is no gap and no fishplate between the two segments.

 

55 minutes ago, brill27mcb said:

The wall wart that comes with it only handles 100 V AC (for domestic Japanese use) instead of being a more universal 100-240 V AC design.

Somehow I've ended up with four sets of the FG17 power pack (two black, two orange) and all of them have the universal 100-240V 50/60Hz wall wart, as also noted in the post you've linked. Of course there might be some older version of the power pack that came with a 100V-specific wall wart, but that would be sold years ago. Either way, since FG17 has a standard power connector, you can switch the wall wart for a different one of the same output that fits you better.

[MeTheSwede]

As katem says, the controller is fine with plug voltage anywhere in the world.

 

The fact that power only goes up to 8V and 0.3A means rolling stock will stay on the track even at top output in sharp curves, i.e. no shinkansen speed is possible for the trams.

[brill27mcb]

Good to know about the universal wall wart on the FG-17 power pack. Thanks for the correction! I think the design of this pack, with the 8 volt max and lower amperage, was aimed at the Tomytec power chassis and their fast-running motors.

[Model_rockets]

On 9/3/2024 at 3:57 PM, brill27mcb said:

 

Two of those sets would only give you 140mm curves, whereas two 91086 track sets give you enough 140mm and 177mm curves to make a double-track oval. Also that set only seems to include 60-degree curves, so you can't make a 90-degree "corner" curve. (Oddly, the components list for this set does not match the photos, and I trust the photos.) But you could order 177mm radius track separately, as well as the 140mm radius track pack, which includes 30-degree curves. The power pack in that set is a small budget one, good if you never plan to expand your oval. It only goes up to 8 volts instead of 12, only produces 0.3 amps of current instead of 1 amp, and does not seem to have the side connectors on it to power points controllers. The wall wart that comes with it only handles 100 V AC (for domestic Japanese use) instead of being a more universal 100-240 V AC design.

 

 

Rich K.

What power pack would you recommend instead? Because if I go with two 91086s I will have to buy a power pack. not looking for any fancy just something to get me by and allow for larger layouts in the future. also would make sense to add a straight section between the curves to be able to model a city block and possibly be able to expand it in the future?

[Model_rockets]

On 9/3/2024 at 3:45 PM, brill27mcb said:

 

The choice is yours, but I find the that Portram model to be pretty plain (mostly black and white). Compare it with these:

Kato Hiroshima Green Mover LEX  https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10707592

Kato MyTram Red (generic basic paint scheme)  https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10780451

Kato MyTram Blue (generic basic paint scheme)  https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10780450

 

Part of the attraction of trams is their colorfulness.

 

Rich K.

Totally fair. I was just thinking that it would be a good starting place for possibly adding my own paint scheme to. Would it possibly be good for that? and thanks for the recommendations on the other trams I will make sure to check them out.

 

[inobu]

You have to see things for yourself in order to know which direction you want to go. It is and expensive endeavor.

 

The Tomix set you want to get is the 91016. I paid $194 (2021)when the exchange rate was bad. The set is hard to find now

and they are selling at inflated prices. It is a good set because it has all the pieces for a really nice yard and it shows

you how Tomix looks and feels. It is a better yard than what Kato has. It takes longer to build as well.

 

I would just go for the TV1 and TV2 as it is a complete scene and start their. The most important part is the base.

It needs to be built for wiring and moving. The makes TV1 and 2 ideal as it sets the boundaries.

 

The switches should be available soon which is a good addition to make TV1 and TV2 a complete loop.

 

Expect this to be your test layout as it takes 3 to 4 builds to learn how to build a good running layout. NO one gets it right the first time.

 

Inobu

 

[MeTheSwede]

12 hours ago, Model_rockets said:

What power pack would you recommend instead?

 

My five ones come from:

 

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10145079

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10915177

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10722499

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10531135

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10160414

 

I must say the last one was a very boring option, which also required investing into a rail feeder. Generally any starter set is good value for money.

The fourth option might appeal to you, if it's available from other vendors (sold out at Hobbysearch at the moment).

 

[brill27mcb]

14 hours ago, Model_rockets said:

What power pack would you recommend instead? Because if I go with two 91086s I will have to buy a power pack. not looking for any fancy just something to get me by and allow for larger layouts in the future. also would make sense to add a straight section between the curves to be able to model a city block and possibly be able to expand it in the future?

 

As I wrote earlier in this thread, "For Tomix Wide Tram, I would start with two oval 91086 MA-WT "Mini" curve sets, plus two power packs like the #5507 N-600, or temporarily one N-600 plus a #5812 "Y" branching cable to connect it to both tracks." The N-600 would especially be a good choice if you are looking to expand the layout in the future, as you have mentioned. Info here:

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10160414

If you are in the U.S. there's one for sale on ebay now:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/286011724917

 

By all means you can buy some straight track to expand the size of your city block. You will need 4 pieces at a time (2 sides of the oval times 2 tracks on each side).

 

Rich K.

Edited September 5 by brill27mcb