Newbies' mistakes to avoid in N gauge?

[Little-Kinder]

Hello there,

 

i'm planning to buy my first layout/set/train,

 

I was thinking of buying the Unitram V1 40-811 with one tramway (red one from kato) and the stuff needed to power it (yes i know it's supposed to come out again in october but it's still available on amazon for 15k yen). (unfortunately they dont produce the 40-900 and 901 anymore)

 

I'm also going to the convention in Odaiba this sunday so maybe i will have the opportunity to buy some stuff cheaper (or i will end up just looking).

 

So before spending a big amount i wanted to double check with more experienced people. Like for instance can i run a big shinkansen on the unitram layout? or are the curves too tight for it ?

 

What did you wish you knew back when you started? What mistakes should I avoid and what should I be careful about?

 

As I live in Japan (Tokyo) it won't be an issue to find N rolling stock i believe from Kato or Tomix (check the kato shop if you can it's really nice).

 

Thank you very much.

 

https://static.wixstatic.com/media/a2c269_4cb9cb634bd64f0ebf1fd8a20bd7a5b5~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_1200,h_700,al_c,q_85,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01,enc_auto/03_OK.jpg

 

[jasonpoter]

hi
In general, 40-811 is a tram-only track. The curve is too steep to drive a regular tram, let alone a Shinkansen. If you want to drive a Shinkansen, purchase a track with a gentle curve.

Also, if you are a newbie, you should have a desire to see what you want and what to expand by first operating a small track set and vehicle. After that, if you ask whether there will be any problems with the expansion you want, you will be able to enjoy the model railroad efficiently. I will

[Little-Kinder]

Ah thanks.

 

I figured it would be to steep. Maybe if I have more space I will buy a starter set with the shinkansen then.....

 

But the unitram system allows me to "build" a diorama easily imo, I can just buy some buildings etc and voilà

[cteno4]

@Little-Kinder you might look at Ttrak as a solution, you can run Shinkansens on the 33mm spaced standards and it’s all about doing small like 25cm x 25cm dioramas. Modules pop apart and let you store them away on shelves and such and set up on the floor or a table for awhile. Also lets you play with others at events.

 

cheers,

 

jeff

[Little-Kinder]

3 hours ago, cteno4 said:

@Little-Kinder you might look at Ttrak as a solution, you can run Shinkansens on the 33mm spaced standards and it’s all about doing small like 25cm x 25cm dioramas. Modules pop apart and let you store them away on shelves and such and set up on the floor or a table for awhile. Also lets you play with others at events.

 

cheers,

 

jeff

Worst case scenario I just buy a train and go at the Kato store to run it on the week ends. It's only 30mn away on bus from where I live. They have two layouts, one for ho and one for n where you can pay 500 yen and run your trains

[Kamome]

If you’re in Tokyo, there are a good number of rental layouts and shops. I’d probably suggest first looking at what space you’ve got to build in, then plan accordingly thinking of what you want to do with it. Having 2 trams running in a loop might be nice for a while, but may get boring quickly, but if you want a tram layout, then the Unitram plates are an easy option as you can just plonk buildings onto it as you mentioned. 

 

If you’re more into shinkansen, Tomix and Kato both make an elevated twin track loop set which you can expand as required but again it’ll initially be trains running in a circle. 

 

The JAM convention is more about modelling and covers some of the niches as well as the mainstream. It will have traders but probably not the deals you’re expecting unless there’s some used stuff that you can pick up cheaper than new. There’ll be lots of kits and accessories with some traders selling bigger stuff but there are a good number of places you can buy from away from the event. Looks like Tam Tam have a stand as does Hobbyland Pochi to give you ideas on price. 

 

There’s a wealth of train shop chains and independents across Tokyo. In Akihabara you have Poppondetta, Railmeister, Chiyoda Rail centre, Imon, Tam Tam. Even Surugaya might have some used starter sets and Yodobashi Camera still sells some railway stuff. One of the Poppondetta has a rental layout and some of their used stock is very reasonably priced, but greatly depends on the age of the product.

 

Worth checking where your closest rental layout is, which may very well be HC Kato. 

 

When you do take the leap, Tam Tam is roughly 30% off SRP, Yodobashi has slightly higher prices than Tam Tam, but has a point card which gives you 10% points back (you can’t get Tax Free if you’re living here.) Poppondetta has ok pricing, Imon will sell for SRP generally but they do have a lot of detailing parts. Chiyoda Rail centre has a mix of used and new. some expensive, some moderately priced. 

 

As for N gauge product, Kato and Tomix are but 2 manufacturers in a very well catered market. They are the most known as they also manufacture track amongst other things. 

Edited August 14 by Kamome

[Giugiaro]

A KATO M1 (20-850) has everything you need to start the hobby, using wide enough curves that all rolling stock should run without issues.

From Japan, you also have versions of the M1 with included rolling stock at a very cheap price (usually code 10-0##).

 

The KATO M2 set (20-853) is similar to the M1 but already includes the V1 set with a passing loop, giving you a package with railway switches (but no rolling stock).

 

From Tomix you can also find similar offerings.
The start sets with rolling stock seem to be code 901##.
I'm not acquainted with Tomix, but I know they follow a pattern similar to KATO, but with far more variety. Tomix A layout roughly corresponds to KATO M1, Tomix B to KATO V1, and Tomix C to KATO V2. And so on.

Edited August 14 by Giugiaro
Added info for Tomix

[MeTheSwede]

9 hours ago, Little-Kinder said:

What did you wish you knew back when you started?

 

To not get a z-scale starter set but instead go straight to n-scale. You're already better than me. 😅

 

 

10 hours ago, Little-Kinder said:

What mistakes should I avoid and what should I be careful about?

 

Maybe not exactly a mistake, but I often see people who plan big and wants to do everything at once. I think it's better to do it one step at a time. Buy something - assemble - play around - learn more, then repeat. Remember that the guys with large fancy permanents layouts you see on Youtube also started somewhere, likely with a starter set on the floor. Take full advantage of the fact that you can just pop down to downtown Tokyo and visit dozens of model train shops and get stuff whenever you want later. Gaaaaah! I'm not at all jelous. 😝

 

I can recommend a visit to the Tomix showroom https://www.tomixworld.jp/ located near Kanda Station. They have lots of products on display (i.e. not inside boxes). There's a well made large n-scale layout and there's also a table where you can try your hands at running some trains yourself (if I remember right they may have been starter sets). I went there on a weekday and ended up being the only visitor for most of my time there. One of the staff was very talkative and I wouldn't be surprised if we spoke for an hour (mostly in English, my Japanese tend to run out rather quickly).

 

Before you get started with trains, you need to decide whether to do Kato track or Tomix track. Be aware of, that due to different track height and different with between double track, your stations will need to come from the same manufacturer as the track. The Unitram stuff can be it's own thing, so that doesn't mean you are necessarily restricted to Kato Unitrack for a train layout later.

 

 

Welcome to the hobby!

[Kingmeow]

I don't know the scene in Japan but if you have a nearby club, you may want to join and ask questions.  If they have a club house with a layout, even better.

[cteno4]

Many of the clubs in Japan don’t have a clubhouse, but do have an association with a school or public center where they set up track or modules and play regularly. Our sister club in Iwate even gets to store their club modules there at the community center they use. 
 

just getting a starter set of track and a train (or one with both) is a good way to start, takes all of 10 minutes to unpack and set up a loop or put it away. You can then add to it sidings, second loop, over and under, etc as you learn what you like and have room for. Kato and Tomix track is designed to run well even in more uneven tatami mat floors (Kato maybe a bit better with a bit wider track roadbed base).

 

You can do the diorama aspect in temporary ways as well. Put down a brown piece of fabric under the track and then add building and scenery islands as well as roads you can just print out on cardstock or laminate onto some thin plastic. You can create islands of scenery around structures (or little islands of just scenery) with small bits of thin styrene sheets a bit bigger than the structure and attach the structure and add some scenery around the structure like sidewalks, trees, yards, etc. it’s a fun way to easily play with the diorama aspect and learn how to do scenery techniques as there are many ways to do scenery and each person tends to find ones that work best in their hands.

 

take a look at this article, it shows what you can do with temporary setups and scenery islands. Sort of a take off on wargaming.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[Little-Kinder]

6 hours ago, Kingmeow said:

I don't know the scene in Japan but if you have a nearby club, you may want to join and ask questions.  If they have a club house with a layout, even better.

would be nice if I could speak japanese ......

 

Yeah for the jam convention I'm just going there to see dioramas and stuff, if I can find some used stuff that's nice.

 

Concerning the prices, Amazon seemed cheap also? I found the unitram TV1 still in stock for 15k yen, will check tamtam for what I need. Thanks

 

I went to the tomix store near Kanda, was disappointed really, it's nowhere as big compared to the Kato one (I don't think they even used their bus system)

 

 

If you have adresses for used stock I'm all for it.

 

Edit:

I do plan to start small, TV1 and one tram, maybe buy the TV2 and some switches later on, and build a city from there

 

Thanks a lot

 

Edited August 15 by Little-Kinder

[Kamome]

12 minutes ago, Little-Kinder said:

If you have adresses for used stock I'm all for it.

Hobbyland Pochi and Poppndetta carry used items. 

 

Used items can be both cheap and expensive due to the age or rarity of the product.  Some Book off stores will have railway items but it’s obviously going to be hit and miss. I have picked up some really good HO bargains from Book off in the past few years with HO tending to hold its value in the used market here. There have also been stuff i’ve passed on due to condition as not everyone looks after their trains. 

 

Other options are Surugaya and Mandarake but again there’s no guarantee on what used items will be available. 

[Little-Kinder]

2 hours ago, Kamome said:

Hobbyland Pochi and Poppndetta carry used items. 

 

Used items can be both cheap and expensive due to the age or rarity of the product.  Some Book off stores will have railway items but it’s obviously going to be hit and miss. I have picked up some really good HO bargains from Book off in the past few years with HO tending to hold its value in the used market here. There have also been stuff i’ve passed on due to condition as not everyone looks after their trains. 

 

Other options are Surugaya and Mandarake but again there’s no guarantee on what used items will be available. 

Thanks, Worth to check

 

Will check bookoff, i also got recommended wattman but it's outside tokyo 😢 

Edited August 15 by Little-Kinder

[DenshaTen]

Hobby Off is great for second hand train stuff but not sure there's any big ones in the heart of Tokyo.

 

I'd recommend grabbing the Kato starter set as it's very easy to set up and pack down and all fits in the box nicely when you're not using it. Can't comment on the tram specific version though sorry!

[bc6]

The only advice I can offer is not to buy too much stuff at first. Plan out your railroad accordingly to how much space you have. Participate in forums like JNS and explore the hobby it has so many facets to it.

Edited August 15 by bc6

[MeTheSwede]

20 hours ago, Little-Kinder said:

If you have adresses for used stock I'm all for it.

 

There is Yahoo Auctions.

 

But be careful. It's very easy to buy a lot of stuff in that place. Don't ask me how I know. 😅

[bc6]

Im not sure if its me but I find the shipping rates a bit pricy considering they use EMS.

[bill937ca]

Experience is the best teacher.  Run some trains!!

[Little-Kinder]

13 hours ago, bill937ca said:

Experience is the best teacher.  Run some trains!!

Easier said than done. The prices are insane. And you need a lot of space.

 

That's why I'm interesting in unitram. More modular and less space. I can put a layout and store it easily I think.

14 hours ago, bc6 said:

Im not sure if its me but I find the shipping rates a bit pricy considering they use EMS.

I live in Japan so I don't think that will be a big issue compared to New York.

 

 

[bill937ca]

Well if you want to use Unitram you can start with the Kato My Tram Classic or one of the Kato Pocket Line trams or trains. Not too expensive.

https://www.katomodels.com/product/n/mytram_classic

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/11008049

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/11008052

 

Pocket Line

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10756206

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10639154

 

If you can find it, the Kato 10-864 Tokyo Metro Ginza Line Series 01 with 16m stock will run on Unitram.

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10150095

 

https://www.1999.co.jp/image/10150095/30/4

 

Edited August 16 by bill937ca

[bill937ca]

I have my Unitram (track only) stored in a long, low cardboard box bought at the dollar store aka 100 Yen store.

Edited August 16 by bill937ca

[cteno4]

5 hours ago, Little-Kinder said:

Easier said than done. The prices are insane. And you need a lot of space.

 

That's why I'm interesting in unitram. More modular and less space. I can put a layout and store it easily I think.

@Little-Kinder I’m curious why do you say prices are insane? Were you expecting them to be a lot more inexpensive or just more of a restricted budget? As model trains go Japanese trains are about the very best bang for the buck you can get in terms of some of the lowest prices for some of the best quality and variety out there. Plus living in Japan shipping is not a big cost and access to a big used market and bargains if you take the time to shop around some. If the prices seem really high to you may not be the hobby for your budget, but there are some good really inexpensive options like the pocket trains bill listed above to start on at the lowest price. Start with a simple loop of track and one of the simple, inexpensive power packs. If you are handy at all with doing a little wiring yourself you can even make your own little power pack for small trains and trams out of a few electronic parts (all prebuilt just need to add some wires to them) and a wall wart transformer or usb power supply (battery or plugin) for maybe 1000 yen or less.

 

unitram is actually quite a bit more expensive track than regular Unitrak or fine track and definitely not as versatile, you are stuck with a loop pretty much for a small sized layout and actually little room for many structures on a smaller loop (curves and sidewalks take up a lot of space).

 

regular track stores down to the smallest volume as well. You need to be careful with unitram track when you store if you put any details onto the unitram plates they don’t get broken off. Like bill mentions some plastic boxes ends up storing a ton of track or ziplock baggies to get even smaller.

 

take a look at the article on doing plop down layouts on the fly, the chap showed he packs a ton of stuff for a good sized layout into one of those little plastic roll around drawer units. It’s a way to be very flexible in what you set up than with unitram once you have a small pile of track. Also much lower investment to start with and will get you into the other diorama aspects of the hobby potentially faster.

 

to start out there are also many free or inexpensive cards stock building kits you can download and print out to build. This is the most inexpensive way to get some structures cheap and fast. Take some time and effort to cut them out and assembled but helpful on a limited budget to get started and as you go helps you figure out which buildings you might want to invest in nicer kits for.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[dotzen]

My advice is to not get caught up in the belief that you must have a double track loop. A single track gives you a bit more freedom and lots of options for a fun layout.

[Little-Kinder]

3 hours ago, dotzen said:

My advice is to not get caught up in the belief that you must have a double track loop. A single track gives you a bit more freedom and lots of options for a fun layout.

I do agree but for the unitram i don't have this option (if you mean to have two tracks next to each other)

 

17 hours ago, cteno4 said:

@Little-Kinder I’m curious why do you say prices are insane? Were you expecting them to be a lot more inexpensive or just more of a restricted budget? As model trains go Japanese trains are about the very best bang for the buck you can get in terms of some of the lowest prices for some of the best quality and variety out there. Plus living in Japan shipping is not a big cost and access to a big used market and bargains if you take the time to shop around some. If the prices seem really high to you may not be the hobby for your budget, but there are some good really inexpensive options like the pocket trains bill listed above to start on at the lowest price. Start with a simple loop of track and one of the simple, inexpensive power packs. If you are handy at all with doing a little wiring yourself you can even make your own little power pack for small trains and trams out of a few electronic parts (all prebuilt just need to add some wires to them) and a wall wart transformer or usb power supply (battery or plugin) for maybe 1000 yen or less.

 

unitram is actually quite a bit more expensive track than regular Unitrak or fine track and definitely not as versatile, you are stuck with a loop pretty much for a small sized layout and actually little room for many structures on a smaller loop (curves and sidewalks take up a lot of space).

 

regular track stores down to the smallest volume as well. You need to be careful with unitram track when you store if you put any details onto the unitram plates they don’t get broken off. Like bill mentions some plastic boxes ends up storing a ton of track or ziplock baggies to get even smaller.

True, a starter set like shinkansen or stuff from kato isn't that expensive, it's just that you have just a loop with this.

 

I do agree, unitram is much more expensive but it's easier to set up and store in my opinion and i don't need all sorts of tools to decorate/model a layout, like grass, make hills etc, so for a beginner and someone without a lot of space and likely to move in a few years it's a good option, it will also limit my number of purchase and space taken.

 

For unitram i will just buy online at amazon/big camera, i found those two had the best prices so far

 

22 hours ago, bill937ca said:

Well if you want to use Unitram you can start with the Kato My Tram Classic or one of the Kato Pocket Line trams or trains. Not too expensive.

 

 

I just found the arakawa line by tomix, since i like this line as it's "old school" and near my place (it's a bit more expensive than the red tramway from kato for instance

 

Will other metro lines survive the unitram curves? like tozai?

Edited August 17 by Little-Kinder

[bill937ca]

37 minutes ago, Little-Kinder said:

 

 

Will other metro lines survive the unitram curves? like tozai?

No. That Ginza is a very rare exception.