Kato Motor Failure

[Odakyu]

So I experienced my first Kato motor failure, but curious as to what could have caused it. I was running my E3-2000 Yamagata Shinkansen (Kato 10-1255), and noticed it wasn't running smoothly and eventually just stopped running, causing my power pack to trip. After resetting the power pack, the train would start again, but would stop running within a couple minutes, tripping the power pack each time. After several resets, the motor car stopped running altogether and emitted a burning smell when power was applied to the tracks. The motor car was also hot to the touch. I'm perplexed as to what could have caused this failure. I tested the track and was able to run some other sets, but am concerned that perhaps there is an issue with my power pack and track system that had caused the motor to burn out. I certainly don't want to burn out any more motors.  Any thoughts appreciated. 

 

I've attached a photo where you can see discoloration on the coils of the motor.

 

Also, does anyone know what type of motor this is and if it's one that I get a replacement for? The parts manual listed the entire motor chassis, which is very difficult to locate as they seem to be sold out everywhere. Thanks! 

[Kingmeow]

I highly doubt it's your power pack.  Did you have to increase throttle to maintain the same speed?

 

The way to kill a motor (not dying by itself) is over voltage and/or over current, causing heat.  But you won't be subjecting that to your train as you will notice that by the excessive speed of your train and dial it down with the throttle.

 

However, if there's binding to the motor for whatever reason, it will pull more current and over time the heat will kill the motor.

 

If I had to guess I would just toss this up to age unless you know there is binding somewhere.  Heat can cause the lacquer coating on the motor windings to break down and short out.  Also, the motor bearing could be binding.

 

As for specific replacement parts question, I'll leave that to others.

Edited August 13 by Kingmeow

[cteno4]

One thing to look for is guns in the gears. Pop the trucks out and look to see if there is a kit of schmutz in the gears or a hair. I’ve seen trucks suck up a cat hair and get totally bound up. This can really slow a motor and eventually burn it out. I’ve run into this a number of times with our club in the past.

 

As kingmeow mentioned I doubt it was your power pack as trains usually fly off the track before they get to overvoltage. Motors usually go with wither just age and some insulation of a coil wire failing or due to being put under binding conditions that leads to over heating of the motor and eventual failure.

 

try popping out the trucks and have a look at them and then see how the motor does if you apply power to it with the trucks out.

 

jeff

[Odakyu]

Thanks for the reply. I definitely gave it more throttle since it wasn't running smoothly or at a consistent speed. I was surprised this one failed since I have much older sets with significantly more run times. Hopefully, I'll be able to find a motor replacement. 

[chadbag]

3 hours ago, Odakyu said:

Thanks for the reply. I definitely gave it more throttle since it wasn't running smoothly or at a consistent speed. I was surprised this one failed since I have much older sets with significantly more run times. Hopefully, I'll be able to find a motor replacement. 

 

Check the gears and mechanical drive elements for being gummed up, blocked with hair, dirt, too much grease, etc.

[Kingmeow]

A thought to add to what Jeff and chadbag said about binding.  When you remove the motor to check on it, run the train on the track with your fingers sans motor and see if it moves smoothly.  That will immediately tell you if any of the trucks bind due to ingestion of foreign matter.  Quick and dirty (no pun intended 😃) way to check without removing trucks and visual examination with a loupe.

[brill27mcb]

Yes, rotating the motor by hand using a flywheel and feeling for drag or hesitation in the motion will indicate how the entire powertrain is functioning. If you can remove the motor, then you can manually turn each driveshaft separately to get a feel for how easily and smoothly each of the geared trucks is working. This may help you to localize any problems. I think your motor is probably "toast" and replacement is the best option, but just sticking in a new motor without correcting any cause of failure would be unwise. So it's time for a little detective work. Don't be afraid to try figuring it out now - it will also be a valuable learning experience for you.

 

Hopefully someone here has access to a 2015 or later Kato catalogue or more detailed train instruction sheet that lists the replacement motor type.

 

Rich K.

[cteno4]

If binding in the trucks at all try picking around with some very fine point needle tweezers (these are excellent and cheap) to see if anything in there. Otherwise it’s pulling the truck apart and cleaning it all out manually or replacing the truck. Like Rich says something probably binding caused the motor to fry (if it did) and you need to correct that as well as install a new motor then or may toast the new motor with time. Potentially could be lubrication and now and then I’ve discovered trains growling and running poorly that have zero lubrication on the gears and tons of resistance.

 

I’ve never found much or a rhyme or reason why or when motor chassis get dirty, mucked up, burn out, except for trains run around with cats! Cat hair is probably the only one common for sure why and when these things happen. We would have trains on the club layout running for dozens of hours and no issues and new train goes on with little hours and the starts growling and running badly. I just ended up poking at a lot of trains that had issues and most were gunk in the trucks, poorly lubed gears, or very dirty wheels and pickups (this far less now with using low dielectric contact cleaners).

 

jeff

[Odakyu]

Thanks for the suggestions. No binding issues, so it appears the motor just went kaput. I'm discovering that finding parts for these older sets isn't easy, but it appears Kato has released a newer slotless motor that might work, so I'll give that a go. 

[chadbag]

DM-Toys.com has sent emails listing replacement motors including ones for Japanese trains.   They probably don't list all the Japanese models for a given motor but if you can find a similar one listed to what you have (in terms of guts) you might find a suitable replacement that way as well...

 

 

[inobu]

Look at the little clips that connect to the motor. Is it missing?   Poor connection causes high current draw which will look like a short

to the Transformer. Motor will get hot.

 

 

Inobu