Varieties of Common Tomix Lightboards / PCBs.

[Damo Jr.]

Hi Guys, 

Thank you for the welcome and i'm happy to be able to participate with all of you.    Wanting to be able to fit decoders more easily to Tomix, locos, diesel cars and electrics, I've been trying to work out how many different lighting PCBs Tomix use accross the range and make a data-base to share.

 

Currently, I'm mucking around with the 0726 board from an earlier DD51 loco and I know this fits the 2213, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, and 21.

 

So, this big questions is, what other single-piece PCB lighboards are shared between Tomix model numbers?

 

Thanks Guys,

Damo.

 

 

Edited July 27 by Damo Jr.

[chadbag]

Does Tomix use the light boards to actually distribute the power from the pickups to the motor?  Or do the lights just branch off at some point to the lightboard but aren't a convenient point to interject a motor decoder?

 

The one Tomix locomotive I've been working on (an EF210) seemed to not reply on the lightboard IIRC -- it was a split chassis sort but it has been a while since I worked on it and don't remember.

 

I'm interested as I have a few Tomix DD51 and DE10 and a few other though I mainly bought KATO locomotives due to their alsmot drop in decoder capabilities.

 

[Damo Jr.]

HI Chad,

For the Tomix locos I've pulled apart, the motor get's it's power direct from the the body and the lightboard only powers the lights, in the same manner.     Good news is that the motors are otherwise isolated and copper V springs make the connection between the body half and the motor terminal.

 

On the Kiha 40 type cars, the power gets to the motor via the lightboard, which uses copper springs, like the interior light boards.   Some of the older ones, usually those with incandescent globes, use copper strips, and are probably the easiest to get a decoder onto.

 

The recently released Tomix DD51's use a much smaller PCB and long light-tubes under the hoods, but have a better insulationg system between the body halves.   

[chadbag]

Thanks.

 

The only Tomix I have added decoders to are Shinkansen.  I have this EF210 that I've had partial success with but have not looked at in a long time.  It was working but not reliable and I forget why since it has been a long while since I looked at it.  Need to get back on it.

 

I do have an EMU from Tomix but have not looked at it yet  (JR 321).

 

[GeorgeHInch]

Following on to this: I'm doing something a little crazy and thinking of making a custom DCC PCB. I'm planning on adding it to the new release of KiHa40s and was curious if anyone has an idea of the number of Tomix light boards out there. 

 

I know Kato uses a handful that are shared across a fair number of models so that they can all take the same DCC drop in board. Not so clued in on what happens in the Tomix world when it comes to sharing parts.

[Damo Jr.]

HI George,

If you wait, it might happen sooner.      There's a board for earlier Tomix DD51's coming very soon.   The Kiha 40 board covers a number of Kiha versions and that will be close behind.     Naturally, at some point Tomix will stop resisting and make their models convertible, like Kato, but that probably dependes on the Japanes consumer!

[Madsing]

@GeorgeHInch Hi George, I just finished working on a small (10x12mm) DCC decoder for lights only (no motor) based on the Attiny1616. Motor drivers could be added. I can share the design if it’s useful. 
Marc

 

[chadbag]

8 hours ago, Madsing said:

@GeorgeHInch Hi George, I just finished working on a small (10x12mm) DCC decoder for lights only (no motor) based on the Attiny1616. Motor drivers could be added. I can share the design if it’s useful. 
Marc

 

 

I'd be interested in adding it to my light board.

[Madsing]

@chadbag Yes, a DCC light board is a good idea. The Attiny1616 has six PWM outputs so we could easily have a set of cool white LEDs and a set of warm white LEDs, then have the light intensity and color temperature programmable with CVs. Give me a few days and I put everything I have done so far (code, schematic and PCB) on GitHub. 
Marc

 

[GeorgeHInch]

@Madsing That would be beautiful if you don't mind sharing. There are a few things where I don't really want to worry about soldering in a decoder because of other issues so I figured I'd just try making my own PCBs to have more control. I've done stationary decoders and other electronics but this will be my first go at actual decoders on the train.

 

I'm also going to make a new light/DCC board for the Greenmax tie tampers that notoriously have sun surface levels off light as well a few for my Tomix 0805 based trains.

[bc6]

@GeorgeHInch I guess I'll stay tuned to what you have cooking since Im expecting my GM Tie Tamper soon. 

[chadbag]

16 hours ago, GeorgeHInch said:

@Madsing That would be beautiful if you don't mind sharing. There are a few things where I don't really want to worry about soldering in a decoder because of other issues so I figured I'd just try making my own PCBs to have more control. I've done stationary decoders and other electronics but this will be my first go at actual decoders on the train.

 

I'm also going to make a new light/DCC board for the Greenmax tie tampers that notoriously have sun surface levels off light as well a few for my Tomix 0805 based trains.

 

When you make a board are you doing it by hand or designing it in software and sending it out to be made at a contract manufacturer?  Usually you need some sort of minimum run of 10 or 25 or 50 to do that and if you do that few its expensive.  When I did my light boards I think I did 100 of each or something to bring the per piece cost down.

[bc6]

This is sounding more and more like a group buy type of situation. I'd be down to participate in a group buy of a light board. I've been bombarded by ads for pcb way and this seems like something they could do.

[chadbag]

1 hour ago, bc6 said:

This is sounding more and more like a group buy type of situation. I'd be down to participate in a group buy of a light board. I've been bombarded by ads for pcb way and this seems like something they could do.

 

If you're looking for a generic light board I have 3 different ones I developed that I can sell some from my cache.  If you need a specific one designed to fit a specific model then you are correct.

 

I have a long one adjustable in length, one that will allow you to take a segment of a LED light strip, and a small board that will atach to any lights you have.

 

[GeorgeHInch]

1 hour ago, bc6 said:

This is sounding more and more like a group buy type of situation. I'd be down to participate in a group buy of a light board. I've been bombarded by ads for pcb way and this seems like something they could do.

@bc6 I've used JLBPCB for my last few things I've made. They have a minimum run of 5 boards and have been super cheap considering. It's just $2+shipping for 5 boards up to 100x100mm. If you self-panelize you can get it down to sub $.50 per board even after shipping. I have not done PCB component assembly with them and just solder my own at home and haven't had any issues yet. 

 

My thoughts for the Greenmax Tie Tamper in particular is create a combo DCC/Motor+light board using Arduino DCC. If people are looking to use their own decoder/no decoder it would actually probably be pretty easy to make a second version with solder pads instead since much of the board would be otherwise the exact same. For the lighting aspect I plan on just distributing a few SMD lets around the board, not dissimilar to what current exists in there but with much higher resistors so it's not so bright and then adding pads at the end of the boards so you can wire SMD LEDs directly to the light pipes. (Literally not sure how much you know about the tie tamper in particular but they way the headlights work is by just having a light pipe angled at the super bright room lights.)

 

ANYWAY, back to the quantity, since it's five minimum and I obviously am not going to need them all, when I order I would be more than happy to mail surplus to anyone that is interested in them. 25/75 on if I'd actually solder the pieces to every board for you though. haha

 

15 minutes ago, chadbag said:

 

If you need a specific one designed to fit a specific model then you are correct.

 

@chadbag Yeah, in this case it's a specific model with a very specific type of board that I doubt is shared by anything else sadly.

[chadbag]

Yeah I used JLBPCB for my runs of boards.   I forgot that they have the small order price as a loss leader to get your business.    It also depends on what kind of board you use, thickness, and all that as well...  I know I cut my cost in half more or less when I went to a very slightly thicker board than the "spec" was on the board (the EM13 board)

 

 

[chadbag]

6 minutes ago, GeorgeHInch said:

My thoughts for the Greenmax Tie Tamper in particular is create a combo DCC/Motor+light board using Arduino DCC

 

What arduino DCC project are you using?  Once my house project is done I want to get back to creating a new version of my generic light board with in-built DCC decoder...

 

[bc6]

@GeorgeHInch Count me in buddy, PM me the details when you're ready.

 

[Madsing]

I have published the source code and production files for the tiny light DCC decoders I just made. It's a 5-function DCC decoder (i.e. you can connect it to five sets of LEDs, which will be controlled separately using DCC functions and CVs).

The files are here: https://github.com/madsing98/DCCLight1616

\src is the source code

I use Visual Studio Code and PlatformIO (https://platformio.org) as IDE (love it). The platform.ini file is there too (give a look to the ATtiny fuse configuration, very important).

Manufacturing files for JLCPCB are in \hardware. Gerber files are in the .zip. You will also need the BOM.

 

The decoder looks like that:

 

 

 

The design is based on the following components / libraries:

- Microchip ATtiny1616-MNR (it's the 20-pin VQFN 3x3 mm version)

- megaTinyCore: https://github.com/SpenceKonde/megaTinyCore 
- NmraDcc: https://github.com/mrrwa/NmraDcc 

 

I have added lots of comments to the source code, but I also have a lot of experience to share. Do not hesitate to contact me if you have any question.

 

Marc

 

[cteno4]

Wow Marc, that’s awesome sauce! Makes me want to move into dcc…

 

jeff

[chadbag]

Wow.  Cool. I downloaded it from github though it will be a while for me to be able to start looking at it (and simplifying it to integrate with my lightboards).  

Do you happen to have any surplus boards (plain, not built) to sell?  I'd take a couple to play with while I was working on integrating

[Madsing]

I don't have any unassembled board. All components have been soldered by JLCPCB right after they manufactured the PCBs (I just ordered 5, which is the minimum quantity).

Marc

 

[chadbag]

6 hours ago, Madsing said:

I don't have any unassembled board. All components have been soldered by JLCPCB right after they manufactured the PCBs (I just ordered 5, which is the minimum quantity).

Marc

 

OK, thanks.  The boards I've gotten from JLCPCB were bare boards and I soldered everything myself.  Anything to save a buck.  

 

I look forward to trying out your project one of tehse days once I'm moved and have time to think about this.  I'm wanting to do a new lightboard with integrated decoder

[Madsing]

Soldering the Microchip ATtiny1616-MNR (it's the 20-pin VQFN 3x3 mm version) seemed way beyond my capabilities. I briefly considered purchasing a hotplate such as this one (https://blog.adafruit.com/2023/10/11/review-teardown-of-a-miniware-mhp30-smd-rework-hot-plate/), then decided to go for assembly by JLCPCB. I don’t regret this decision. I like to do things myself (obviously), but sometimes I spend too much time on things that don’t really matter…

 

Marc

[chadbag]

I just use an actual hotplate like you would use with a frying pan on your table top.  It seems to work for what I've done so far with the light boards using small rectifiers and stuff and super small resistors.  Haven't fried any so far.  My goal is to learn and do and also to make the boards be as inexpensive as possible so I can put them in all my trains 🙂

 

I don't remember how much they charge for the service.  It probably is worth it when you factor in the time and everything but I like to do with my hands.  I sit in front of a computer all day for work so making stuff is my relaxation.  I have a simple re-work hot air station, a HAKKO digital soldering iron, a cheapo hotplate, and a cheapo IR thermometer.  Using a small syringe of paste it makes it easy to do the smd stuff.  If you put too much solder paste on you can float the devices and they'll move a little (be a little crooked) but I learned that when it melts it pulls itself to the pads on the boards and so you generally don't get bridges even if you have a little extra connecting too pads before you heat it.  When it melts it separates itself and concentrates on the pads. 

 

Anyway, thanks for posting it.  I think Martin had a project he was looking at last I looked. I need just a simple function one I can add to or integrate on my next version of light board.  I should probably make the light board be able to control two separate strings of lights so you can install both white (florescent light / LED) or yellow (incandescent) and switch between them.  Or whatever -- white and green...  You've given me some good ideas.