Using a portable generator for a model railroad layout.

[Dillon]

I don't want to get into the nitty and gritty, but for context, I'm operating my model railway layout at a convention and I don't want to use the Convention Center's power access, which is expensive. So I planning to use a portable generator. However, I don't know anyone in the model railway community who used a portable generator, so any tips?

 

I used the standard KATO starter pack with the blue controller to operate my trains.

 

I found a portable generator that cost 89.99, with a battery capacity has 24000 Milliamp Hours, I'm operating my layout for 8 hours with some resting period, but I'm planning to buy a second one just in case the first one runs out of power. I know this sounds like a crazy idea and plan, but I have no other ideas.

 

@cteno4 any help?

Edited June 23 by Dillon

[cteno4]

Dillion, 

 

yes we use 300wh supplies now for the club layouts and shows and they run a dual mrc power supply for over two days at shows for 6-8hrs a day. They are wonderful as they cut out finding outlets, running extension cords (probably the highest liability thing you can do at shows to cause injury to someone), and expense of power drops at some shows. One of the best improvements we have had for club events!

 

can you send a link to the one you are looking at?

 

usually 120v battery power supplies are rated at the watt hours (ie number of hours x number of watts used at 120v draw). 300wh supplies are about $150 and up. 12000mah depends on the voltage output used at. With a 300wh 120v you could run a 15w (about what the throttles draw) throttle for 20 hrs.

 

We have these two. We got a second as a backup just in case one were to blow out.

 

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=44701

 

https://www.amazon.com/Jackery-Portable-Explorer-Generator-Optional/dp/B082TMBYR6/ref=sr_1_4?crid=6ITUZWYDIPD4&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.BmBf4-eVBmfU-8lu3UMLKW77555JR93_SjIBSnTOL2opciZbFUy4AgBAKXK16_43TQcEAIq6OeM1l40x7Ww5xtcaWoPFSrYDFpqcrFYMm_rROMM8FUWNJgMO8FzOYyzZc-Y-6sYCgb1hc0yv7aYo1XZlotWCAfYl4LrfuI8gfZNvXe2pan09c0-RIz3ard82QlmDE6B0DRfrLMnfM_lb_OQvBNcxhXW2QTLxKfTF9Fk.XQXmM-irDkSfnipYNPJU8kkeKEGMPK5GjU-AJz1bLwc&dib_tag=se&keywords=jackery+portable+power+station&qid=1719130202&sprefix=Jakery%2Caps%2C80&sr=8-4

 

jeff
 

[Dillon]

4 hours ago, cteno4 said:

yes we use 300wh supplies now for the club layouts and shows and they run a dual mrc power supply for over two days at shows for 6-8hrs a day. They are wonderful as they cut out finding outlets, running extension cords (probably the highest liability thing you can do at shows to cause injury to someone), and expense of power drops at some shows. One of the best improvements we have had for club events!

 

can you send a link to the one you are looking at?

 

usually 120v battery power supplies are rated at the watt hours (ie number of hours x number of watts used at 120v draw). 300wh supplies are about $150 and up. 12000mah depends on the voltage output used at. With a 300wh 120v you could run a 15w (about what the throttles draw) throttle for 20 hrs.

 

We have these two. We got a second as a backup just in case one were to blow out.

Here’s the first one:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0BZR1ZNG6/ref=ox_sc_act_image_2?smid=A2K7Z8NESXVJOM&psc=1
Here’s the second one:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B09YLWLFLF/ref=ox_sc_act_image_1?smid=A2K7Z8NESXVJOM&psc=1

 

I have a question, did you asks Otakon when you’re doing this? Because my convention asks to pay for power access, and I want to know if it’s legal to use since I used my own power instead of the convention’s power. 

[cteno4]

Ok the first one should do you fine. It’s 236wh which is similar to ours that will power a dual throttle (equivalent to 2 power packs) for two days of a show! You could always cart I home to charge up at night and bring back next morning. Ours are right around 300wh. The second one is only 88wh so that is significantly less and might get a single throttle for 2 days. The first one is  a much better deal for power to price ratio! If you feel like you need a backup I’d get a second one of the first on if you can afford it (first one is 47 cents per wh and second is 75 cents per watt hour). The watt hour (wh) rating at 120v is what you want to look for. The mah value depends on the voltage it’s being used at, and the mah rating is usually the value of the internal battery’s voltage. We got our second to be the Murphy insurance as if you have a backup you won’t need it, but sometimes we also want to set up 2 loops on 2 different tables as well.

 

to calculate how long the power supply will last at a particular just divide the wh rating by the number of watts you will draw. So if a 300wh supply is going to be used with a throttle drawing 10w it would last 300wh/10w = 30h.
 

You can also roughly calculate how much ah something would use by just multiplying the number of watts the device uses by the hours you will use it. So 10w device for 16h would use 160wh (10w x 16h) so a little over a half of a 300wh supply.

 

did you get the first one already? You can test out your throttle and see how much it draws. Luckily the Kato supplies are pretty simple and efficient just using a scr power chip to regulate the about 12v dc from a diode rectifier bridge puts out from power supply wall wart puts out. Just hook the transformer up and run a train for an hour and see how much it gobbles up of the supply. Our supply shows the current watt draw so you can easily see what you have currently hooked up is drawing and estimate how long that last with what is on the battery. Couldn’t tell if yours does that or not.

 

the reason they charge you for power is usually a function of the fees they pay to the convention center. Usually there is a per tap cost for a convention center employee to come out and unscrew cover on the floor plug you would use and make that circuit active, then re cover it and shut it off after the con. At outdoor events same thing to get access to a generator tap and help pay for the renting of the big generator. In all our events the last few years everyone on the event side is really happy we don’t need power now! Just a POA for them to arrange, coordinate, pay for, bill, etc and eliminates probably the biggest insurance risk they face with EXTENSION CORDS!
 

I know it sounds dumb but extension cords in public places are really big accidents just waiting to happen. Even well taped down ones with bright visual warning tape or cable ramps are huge tripping problems. I use to have to have both business and physical liability insurance for my exhibits business as clients required it. One year I was going thru the renewal on the liability insurance and the agent asked on the physical insurance if I ever used an extension cord at a clients place and I said yes during installs we use a few but it’s only me and other contractors working on the install in there, no public and very little client in there when extension cords were out. The agent said sorry they didn’t check that box in the past that triples the physical liability insurance! I said WHAT?! He said next to slip and falls on wet floor tripping is huge suit rate, sorry…
 

Last year I had posted our battery pack use to the Ntrak and Ttrak lists and some were up in arms these battery packs are huge flame/explosion risks. Well it’s total bs. These battery packs are very where and the rate of fires is very low or Rome would be burning by now. Most battery pack fires come from physical modifications to sup up their potential output and remove the heat sensors most all these bigger packs have to shut them down if they sense dangerous battery temperatures. Also physical damage to the battery pack is the other issue in failure. Again these 120vac packs are designed to sense over temperature batteries and changes in voltage and current if the batteries are damaged. Even if one were to erupt into flames it would probably not hurt anyone compared to a trip on the extension cords! I’ve been trying to contact a friend’s brother who is a fire marshal in California (they have pretty stringent fire rules) to see what their view is on the use in facilities. Usually the event organizers need to have the fire marshal in and review the event beforehand for fire and evacuation stuff and leave them with a list of forbidden things and so far we have not been told by any organizers that these 120vac battery pack systems are not allowed. Otakon especially would have rules as in the big convention center that has a lot of explicit rules.
 

Check with your organizer. The only weird thing I could think of would be odd union rules. In the distant past (I’ve not hear of this in the last decade) some venues had union contract rules that said only they would wield tools and pay a very high rate for them to do the work for you (no kidding a screwdriver was not allowed and we could carry none of our boxes of stuff around!). I had one exhibit display for conference at the old dc convention center 30 years back like this and they watched everyone like a hawk! I modified all the joints were fasteners were needed with Tbolt inserts and wing nuts so I could just assemble it all with my fingers, no wrench or screwdriver. I was one of the few w.o a union guy there and the supervisor came over and was not nice wanting to know why and I showed him and he was not happy, but stamped off and the worker he brought with him to inspect just laughed once the boss was out of earshot and thought my solution quite humorous! But I still had to sit at my display for 3+hrs after broken down and boxed up waiting for an employee to hand truck my 6 boxes about 200’ to the loading dock where the fed ex truck was taking them (and play lime $20/box for this)! I think those days are mostly gone now but I expect there may be some nuanced local remnants left around.

 

the battery packs are handy to have for power outages to be able to charge phones, some led lights, even run a frig for a bit. Also just handier sometimes to use in the yard, etc when you need power rather than snaking an extension cord all over! 

 

jeff

[chadbag]

Just wanted to point out that these are not "power generators" but are big battery based energy storage devices -- "power stations".  (yes some can add optional solar panels to help generate additional power to recharge it).

 

I would second the use of something like this vs paying the ridiculous fees some places charge and with this you get to take t home and use it another day!

[cteno4]

lol I love how all the tv commercials call them “generators”! Total falsehood. It’s just a stupid battery and inverter!
 

Yes for events that require fees for power hookups at the events we attend, one hookup would pay for a battery power unit! 
 

It really has revolutionized our setups. Usually the outlet location would be a big factor in table placement and running extension cords and taping them down a big task in the midst of setup, usually wanting to get it done before we set up the layout to get out from underfoot. Even throttle placement had to be thought in. That’s all eliminated now with the battery power supplies. We just do the setup where we like and then place the throttle where we like, and then plunk the power supply down below where the throttle ends up! Very sweet. we have been using them for about 3 years now and just loving them! 
 

only downside is you have to remember to charge them up before a show and turn them off at the end of the day. We had one mysterious discharge overnight one time due to we thing the unit not being turned off and it burns like 3w just being powered up and there may have been wall warts plugged into it as well. We were able to get it charged enough the next morning before the show to make it thru. But it’s the reason we have the backup supply now.

 

I’ve definitely loved going battery powered in the wood shop as well, with a ton of battery powered hand tools now. Dealing with cords all the time is a pita and I find that battery tools are being made lighter to make up for the extra battery weight and overall many tools are as light or lighter than my old very heavy corded tools. I settled on Ryobi a long time back as the best cost/quality for my needs and have been really happy with them over the last 20 years. I’ve not killed a single tool and many have gotten tons of use and abuse. The savings over the professional brands has let me get more tools and batteries. Great that they are all on the same batteries! 

 

The other big game changer was the folding wagon. It’s made life so much easier schlepping things in and out of shows, especially the ones where we are a long distance to the vehicles to the setup. Nice simple solution.

 

jeff