Steve Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 Hello there, I started to design my first N-Gauge Loco Model. The prototype is the JGR Class 4-6-4 HC51 Bullet Train pre-war concept of 1942 which was never realized because of the Second World War. This will be a freelance Model, based on the drawings for the 4-6-4 HC51 and an existing Freelance Model of another conceptional Streamlined Locomotive, the 4-8-4 HD53. The final Model will be compatible with existing 1:150 Japanese Model Trains. The Chassis comes from a damaged and stripped down KATO C62, which I had stored for few Years. I will use this as the working Part of a freelanced Variant of that Streamlined Locomotive. The Loco Body will be 3D printed with my 4 Years experience of 3D Design and Printing. Works on the Body have already started. Let's see ho long I need for that Design. I also plan to make the final Printing Files public. I also have Ideas for a "stripped down" Post War Variant with cut down shell. 6 Link to comment
SwallowAngel Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 Ooooohh, Streamliners, my favourites! The SL Bullet Train concepts sure are an oddity in the history of JNR, definetly a loco worth modelling! I do faintly remeber seeing this model in N of HD53, though the basis was a SP Daylight loco, causing a bit of a jarring size difference. I certainly will be following this project with great interest! 2 Link to comment
SL58654号 Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 Very fascinating project! I wish you well in this endeavor! 😃 The precursor to the Shinkansen project envisaging steam locomotives for high-speed service (closely following contemporary practice in the USA, Germany and Britain) greatly intrigues me. Ah what might have been! Would Japan have ended up making the fastest steam locomotives of all time? And to think there might've been a nationwide network of high-speed standard gauge lines in Japan fascilitating steam operation. Imagine, what if Flying Scotsman (which visited both America 🇺🇸 and Australia 🇦🇺) would have the chance to do the same in Japan? Other foreign steam engines like 'Boxhill' have been known to visit. 1 Link to comment
200系 Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 4 hours ago, SL58654号 said: The precursor to the Shinkansen project envisaging steam locomotives for high-speed service (closely following contemporary practice in the USA, Germany and Britain) greatly intrigues me. 4 hours ago, SL58654号 said: Ah what might have been! Would Japan have ended up making the fastest steam locomotives of all time? They most certainly wouldn't have. Though the alignment of the Tōkyō-Shimonoseki Shinkansen project had been designed to allow for operational speeds in excess of 200 km/h along most of the route, these speeds would've only been achieved on the electrified sections of the route, i.e. between Tōkyō and Atami and between Nagoya and Kōbe, with steam traction being limited to a maximum operating speed of 150km/h, with only the HD53 type design being projected to be able to reach said speed, while the HC51 (general passenger) and HD60 (freight) would be much slower. It would be the largest electric locomotive design, the HEH50 type locomotives, which would be designed with a maximum operating speed of 210 km/h, though whether the Japanese railway industry would've been capable of producing such a design at that point in time is up for debate. In fact, the only reason steam was considered at all was down to the insistence of the army, which considered electric traction, or more specifically electric infrastructure, to be extremely vulnerable to damage by shore bombardments and as such preferred steam [note1], as well as concerns over the ability of the Japanese utility network to supply the required power needed for the project. The Ministry of Railways preferred electric traction, with the lead engineer of the vehicle design bureau, Shima Hideo going one step further, arguing strongly in favor of using electric multiple units, though he was unfortunately overruled by the majority, resulting in a focus on locomotive hauled trains instead [note2]. The decision to only electrify the aforementioned sections was a compromise between the Ministry of Railways and the army, though even with this compromise, the vehicle design bureau would focus most of their attention on the electric locomotive designs while the steam locomotive designs were treated more like a compulsory design project instead, this can be seen in the quality of the design drafts with the design for the HEF10, HEF50 and HEH 50 being relatively detailed, both in terms of the draft itself as well as in the supplied specifications, while the steam locomotive designs were extremely basic in comparison. All of this is rather academic though, as the Tōkyō-Shimonoseki Shinkansen project wasn't expected to be completed until 1959 at the earliest, the design drafts for both the steam and electric locomotives were just that, drafts. They were drafted more as a study into what the motive power for the shinkansen could look like, rather than actual design studies, which were expected to be completed closer to the completion of the project. As a side note, and as a personal pet peeve of mine, the term dangan ressha, or bullet train, didn't originate with the prewar shinkansen project, rather it had existed for more than a decade prior to the Tōkyō-Shimonoseki project being announced to the public. The actual origin of the term can be traced back to the introduction of more militaristic language during the early years of the Shōwa period, with the word dangan, or bullet, being used as an adjective for faster types of transportation. For railways this meant that faster express trains, mostly express freight trains to be more specific, ironically, started to be referred to as dangan ressha both by the press and by extension the general public sometime around 1930 or earlier (the earliest mention I have found dates back to 1930), with the term becoming more prevalent after the Mudken Incident and subsequent Japanese occupation of Manchuria in September 1931 and especially after the Japanese invasion of China in July 1937, and the subsequent mobilization which started in 1938. As such, though the project was internally referred to by either its official project name, i.e. the Kōkitetsudō Keikaku, or Broad Gauge Railway Plan, or the more common Tōkyō-Shimonoseki Shinkansen, often shorted to just shinkansen, in the press it would mostly be referred to as the Tōkyō-Shimonoseki Shinkansen Dangan Ressha, with dangan ressha in this case being a general description of the type of trains, i.e. fast express passenger and freight trains, that would be operating on the line, not necessarily the project nor the rolling stock itself. In fact the term wasn't unique to railways either as for example during the construction of an expressway between Nagoya and Kōbe, which had been proposed during the war, the cars that would be travelling on said expressway were referred to as dangan jidōsha, or bullet cars, by the press at that time. As such, the term has a strong connection to the nationalistic and militaristic culture, including language, being inserted in for example education and the press during the early Shōwa period, especially after the invasion of China. It should therefore come as no surprise that the term fell out of use completely, and immediately, after the end of the war, though the term dangan ressha keikaku, or bullet train plan was often mentioned during the construction of the Tōkaidō Shinkansen as a way to refer to the prewar, Tōkyō-Shimonoseki Shinkansen, which cemented the connection between the term dangan ressha and the prewar shinkansen project, even though, as I mentioned before, it wasn't generally referred to as such at that time, at least to my knowledge. [note1] The army used the same reasoning against the electrification of coastal routes by the Ministry of Railways (or the preceding Railway Institute, and post 1943 the Ministry of Transportation) ever since nationalization. This had also been one of the major why electrification of the Tōkaidō mainline had been limited to the section between Tōkyō and Atami and Kyōto and Kōbe in the period between the two world wars, and ironically had been one of the reasons why the army objected to the construction of a mainline along the Tōkaidō, when choosing a route for a mainline between Tōkyō and Ōsaka during the Meiji era (the army preferred the more centrally located Nakasendō instead). Ironically, the reality proved to be different, as even with the successful incendiary area bombing campaign waged during the final 6 months of the war, and as such the destruction of the majority of urban centers in Japan, i.e. the areas where electric railways were most prevalent, electric railway infrastructure turned out to be relatively easy to repair, with services being restored within a couple of days at worst, and sometimes within hours. Even the Hiroshima Dentetsu, which of course was heavily damaged by the nuclear explosion, was able to restore services, at least partially, within three days after the bombs were dropped, though some efforts continued into the autumn of 1945. Conversely, large numbers of steam hauled services would be suspended during the final stage of the war, as fuel shortages meant there simply wasn't enough coal for them to operate, a situation which continued into the first months of the Allied occupation. [note2] Shima Hideo had been a strong proponent for the use of electric multiple units both for short distance urban and suburban routes as well as for medium to long distance express services since his visit to Europe, and more specifically the Netherlands, in 1937. He would be able to realize this ideal, despite a lot of opposition by the old guard within the Ministry of Transportation, and since 1949 Japanese National Railways, with the introduction of the MoHa 80 type cars in 1949. Though he resigned from the National Railways in the wake of the Sakuragichō accident, though he was brought back by Sogō Shinji, then president of the National Railways, in the role of chief engineer for the construction of the Tōkaidō Shinkansen. In his position he adamantly argued for the use of electrical multiple units as opposed to locomotive hauled trains for the shinkansen project. Despite, once again, receiving strong opposition from with the National Railways, which included being screamed at by Sogō Shinji, aptly nicknamed 'old man thunder', himself, fortunately his perseverance paid off this time, with the calmly reasoning Shima Hideo eventually managing to convince president Sogō that multiple units were the way forward. 7 Link to comment
cteno4 Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 These dissertations are alway a joy to read @200系! jeff 4 Link to comment
SwallowAngel Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 Yeah, fascinating read @200系! You should start publishing books about niche japanese train subjects, I would certainly buy them 😄 Regading the term "Bullet train", I never knew of its nationalistic nature, though it seems obvious now having read your post. Funny how some militaristic terms just end up regular use, German suffers from this a lot due to Prussian Militarism (which of course heavily influenced Japans Militarism). Where do you get all this information from though (besides years of studying I suppose)? I always struggle to find anything even close to what you just typed up... 2 Link to comment
Steve Posted May 13 Author Share Posted May 13 I'm surprised how fast this goes, the first printed Prototype maybe even in this Week. 2 Link to comment
Steve Posted May 14 Author Share Posted May 14 First Prototype is printed: With some strange Warping on the Locomotive's Cab. The final Body will be a bit shorter. It seems like I had some Scaling mistakes. I'm surprised how good it looks even in this state. 5 2 Link to comment
SwallowAngel Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 Impressive, congrats on the first prototype! I am looking forward to the next steps! How did you fit the cylinders/Valve gear into the body? Toyosawa-san always had to grind the cylinder regions down by quite a significant amount to mount the body. Also how does the model compare to other rolling stock scale wise? I'd imagine it's more akin to the wider Shinkansen rolling stock rather than the more standart JNR coaches or am I mistaken? Link to comment
SL58654号 Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 Super cool! @Steve The standard gauge Japanese high speed steam locomotive that never was (as far as I'm aware) portrayed in N gauge....'till NOW! Keep up the good work! Will you paint it white and blue? Link to comment
Steve Posted May 15 Author Share Posted May 15 Thanks for the replies! 13 hours ago, SwallowAngel said: Impressive, congrats on the first prototype! I am looking forward to the next steps! How did you fit the cylinders/Valve gear into the body? Toyosawa-san always had to grind the cylinder regions down by quite a significant amount to mount the body. Also how does the model compare to other rolling stock scale wise? I'd imagine it's more akin to the wider Shinkansen rolling stock rather than the more standart JNR coaches or am I mistaken? The Shell is slightly wider than that of a common japanese N-Gauge Model. The Cylinders are unmodified. 54 minutes ago, SL58654号 said: Super cool! @Steve The standard gauge Japanese high speed steam locomotive that never was (as far as I'm aware) portrayed in N gauge....'till NOW! Keep up the good work! Will you paint it white and blue? Good Question, I will drop the doubtfull Tokaido-Shinkansen Livery, which is freelance because the JGR never planned with this. I'm unsure, my Ideas are: - Brown - Brown with Creme Band (in Combinations with Coaches with the same Window Band, like the 52 Series EMU had) - Dark Blue (Like the JNR 20 Series Coaches and 1962+ LIvery) - Black 1 Link to comment
SwallowAngel Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 I was wondering what kind of livery would suit this loco aswell, as I am not the biggest fan of the white and blue Tokai-Shinkansen livery from the model. It just wouldn't align with the JGR/JNRs policy to keep SL's black and thus relatively maintenance-easy. Personally I'd go with black and a good amount of white/silver highlights à la C55 streamliner/BR01 livery. Not the most ornate, but it would fit considering that post-war blue trains also ran with black SL's such as C62's and it would fit with other JGR/JNR steamers. 1 Link to comment
SL58654号 Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 10 hours ago, Steve said: I'm unsure, my Ideas are: - Brown - Brown with Creme Band (in Combinations with Coaches with the same Window Band, like the 52 Series EMU had) - Dark Blue (Like the JNR 20 Series Coaches and 1962+ LIvery) - Black Just a suggestion, but maybe as a slight, but still somewhat maintenance-easy distinction from the usual SL black livery, how about something resembling the CSD Czechoslovakian railways steam fleet? In the later days of steam there as late as 1954 newly built engines had a handsome blue but pragmatic livery. Some were green while others were black. Link to comment
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