DCC installation services for Kato n gage?

[Mutro]

Apologies in advance if this has already been covered in previous threads.

 

I'm still a novice at n gage model railroading, having just started a few months ago, but I'm already running into limitations imposed by the DC system. I may have over complicated my two-power pack layout with a Double crossover and an X-cross over ... (see attached layout plan) Phase3 + Beer Brewery.pdfSo a conversion to a DCC system might be ideal. However, reading information on this forum as such for DCC conversions, I may not be up to the task myself, especially with limited n gage experience, limitations in dexterity and eyesight.  Thus I would like to consider engaging DCC installation services. 

 

My questions include: (1) are there installers experienced in converting n gage Japanese locomotives, ideally in the Northern California area where I live, or are there viable services elsewhere via delivery, (2) what are controller options/considerations, e.g. sound, bluetooth, and (3)  what would be a the range of costs and viable options (understanding that it likely would depend on examining the the specifics of my locomotives and decoder/sound options) and how may I get quotes for this service.

 

My current n gage collection for conversion include: 

1. Kato 10-1500 Series 35-4000 'SL Yamaguchi-go' 5 Cars Set  
2. Kato 10-1527 485 Series Early Type, 6-Car Basic Set 
3. Kato 10-1670 Passenger Car Formation Set Sleeping Express 'Kitaguni' 8 Cars Set  

4. Kato 2016-8 2016-8 Steam Locomotive Type D51 200 (N scale)

5. Kato 2017-8JNR Steam Locomotive Type C62-2 Tokaido Type (N scale) 

6. Kato2018-1 2018-1 Steam Locomotive Type D51 1st Ed. (Tohoku Type) 

7. Kato 3049-2Electric Locomotive Type EF58 150 Miyahara Engine Depot (N scale)

8. Tomix 6425 Track Cleaning Car (Blue) (N scale)

 

All passenger cars have been fitted with Kato lighting kits.

 

(BTW, I'll be visiting Kato Hobby Center in Tokyo as well as the Akihabra district in a couple of weeks, so I may end up acquiring more Kato trans! 😁)

 

Thanks for any advice!

 

Phase3 + Beer Brewery.pdf

[katoftw]

Kato USA offers this service. You would need to contact them for pricing.

[brill27mcb]

It looks to me like your layout is actually well-suited for DC operation with two power packs, except for one thing. That is that one track of your pair almost acts like an oval, while the parallel track almost does an up-and-over figure-8. If you made all trains cross over at the double-crossover, you would have two separate loops operationally. But if you run the trains straight through the crossover, which you probably do, what you have operationally is a single big long loop. Then a train that starts running left-to-right at the top of your track plan later finds itself running back right-to-left there in the opposite direction on the parallel track. It's an interesting plan, but it creates logic issues like the ones you are running into. One solution would be to remove the crossover (not the double crossover, the crossover under the bridge) to create two separate loops (one all blue and one all orange). Then, when you want to switch a train from one of these loops to the other loop, set the power pack speeds and directions to match while you cross the train over on the double-crossover.

 

If you prefer the complication of the present arrangement, then DCC might be the way to go.

 

Rich K.

[Kamome]

As regard DCC

Some of your sets can use Kato drop-in decoders which are relatively inexpensive. If you have a friend that could fit these for you it would reduce costings a little rather than paying someone at Kato to do it.

 

-SL Yamaguchi coaches

- 485 series.

 

The SLs will be the trickiest so worth getting quotes for these. Not sure with the Kitaguni set as some coaches are tooled for drop in, some aren’t. I believe there is a replacement light board for the EF58 but may require some permanent body shell modification. 

 

Certainly in Japan, off the shelf DCC fitted products by Hobby Centre Kato are a significant increase in cost compared to their base counterparts. Although most have detail parts fitted in addition, it can be a big jump in price. 

 

Hardwired Example

 

HO EF510 0 DCC sound fitted ¥61,050

HO EF510 0 base ¥15,070

 

[bc6]

TCS recently announced DCC decoder installation services 

https://www.tcsdcc.com/so/6fOx91E-V?languageTag=en&cid=3e030a2c-4ad0-40bf-aef7-acb3a6ecaad0

[Mutro]

On 5/3/2024 at 3:18 PM, brill27mcb said:

... One solution would be to remove the crossover (not the double crossover, the crossover under the bridge) to create two separate loops (one all blue and one all orange). Then, when you want to switch a train from one of these loops to the other loop, set the power pack speeds and directions to match while you cross the train over on the double-crossover.

Thanks for your astute diagnosis of my layout and its peculiarities.  I tried your suggestion (on paper, not actual track change Phase 3 no-X.layout.pdf) and it seems I will lose the ability to run two trains simultaneously on their separate loops and controls, as I will need to hand off from one controller to another during the loop at designated segments.  Thus, to keep my current functionality, it appears a DCC conversion is of value.  

[Mutro]

On 5/3/2024 at 7:23 PM, bc6 said:

TCS recently announced DCC decoder installation services 

https://www.tcsdcc.com/so/6fOx91E-V?languageTag=en&cid=3e030a2c-4ad0-40bf-aef7-acb3a6ecaad0

Thanks for the suggestion. I have contacted them for a quote.

 

[Mutro]

On 5/3/2024 at 3:34 PM, Kamome said:

As regard DCC

Some of your sets can use Kato drop-in decoders which are relatively inexpensive. If you have a friend that could fit these for you it would reduce costings a little rather than paying someone at Kato to do it.

 

-SL Yamaguchi coaches

- 485 series.

 

The SLs will be the trickiest so worth getting quotes for these. Not sure with the Kitaguni set as some coaches are tooled for drop in, some aren’t. I believe there is a replacement light board for the EF58 but may require some permanent body shell modification. 

 

Certainly in Japan, off the shelf DCC fitted products by Hobby Centre Kato are a significant increase in cost compared to their base counterparts. Although most have detail parts fitted in addition, it can be a big jump in price. 

 

Hardwired Example

 

HO EF510 0 DCC sound fitted ¥61,050

HO EF510 0 base ¥15,070

 

Thanks! Your info helps me identify my DCC conversion options.  I hope to ask the staff at Kato Hobby Center for more specifics when I visit them in a couple of weeks.

[Mutro]

On 5/3/2024 at 1:54 PM, katoftw said:

Kato USA offers this service. You would need to contact them for pricing.

I called Kato USA today and unfortunately, Kato USA does not offer this service.

[katoftw]

Funny. Since the have job adverts describing these services.

 

https://jnsforum.com/community/topic/20289-kato-usa-is-hiring/

[chadbag]

There are a lot of folks who do DCC conversions.  There is nothing "special" about Japanese N-Gauge when it comes to DCC (unless it is a EM13, which is almost exclusively KATO Japanese trains with a few exceptions but they are easy and you could do it or someone in your family just watching a video as they just basically slide in).  The KATO stuff that has the drop in lightboard replacemnts basically use Digitrax compatible drops ins.  Digitrax of course makes them but also TCS, and other manufacturers make them. They're usually a little more complicated as you often have to move or modify LEDs etc but they're not parfticularly hard.  The hardest are ones where you have to direct wire in a wired decoder.  There you need to isolated things and make sure you understand the path of the electricity.  And figure out a strategy for any lights that are on there.  But these are not things that are Japanese specific really.  So anyone who knows about doing DCC conversions should be able to help you.  Especially folks who do N-scale stuff.

 

Are you a member of a club?  Or do you have any N-scale modelers you know locally?

[cteno4]

4 hours ago, katoftw said:

. Since the have job adverts describing these services.

perhaps they have not filled the position yet. I don’t remember anyone on the n scale lists here in the us talking about katousa having decoder install options.

 

jeff

[brill27mcb]

There has been a lot of discussion of Kato DCC installs on www.therailwire.net. One participant there, Kelley, used to do them for Kato in the U.S. - hundreds of them - until 3 years ago. For example, read through this thread (hope you can see the photos if just a "guest"):

https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=57567.0

 

You may find scanning through his posts over time to be informative about Kato and DCC installation:

https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=3231;area=showposts;start=0

 

Rich K.

 

[Takahama Trainwatcher]

You mentioned you are visiting the Kato Hobby Center in Tokyo. I believe they do decoder installations. You might have to visit them twice, though, and I don't know if you would have the time. (From memory, they have an order form on their website.)

[Kingmeow]

On 5/6/2024 at 4:41 PM, Mutro said:

I called Kato USA today and unfortunately, Kato USA does not offer this service.

 

On 5/6/2024 at 9:10 PM, katoftw said:

Funny. Since the have job adverts describing these services.

 

https://jnsforum.com/community/topic/20289-kato-usa-is-hiring/

 

Correct that Kato USA does not do decoder installations for customers.  The job posting is for someone on staff to do decoder installations for items to be sold as "Equipped with DCC" when they arrive at the distributors/dealers.  You will see these as Kobo Shop items in the US.  It's an internal thing and not public facing.

[Mutro]

On 5/4/2024 at 7:34 AM, Kamome said:

As regard DCC

Some of your sets can use Kato drop-in decoders which are relatively inexpensive. If you have a friend that could fit these for you it would reduce costings a little rather than paying someone at Kato to do it.

 

-SL Yamaguchi coaches

- 485 series.

 

The SLs will be the trickiest so worth getting quotes for these. Not sure with the Kitaguni set as some coaches are tooled for drop in, some aren’t. I believe there is a replacement light board for the EF58 but may require some permanent body shell modification. 

 

Certainly in Japan, off the shelf DCC fitted products by Hobby Centre Kato are a significant increase in cost compared to their base counterparts. Although most have detail parts fitted in addition, it can be a big jump in price. 

 

Hardwired Example

 

HO EF510 0 DCC sound fitted ¥61,050

HO EF510 0 base ¥15,070

 

Thanks for your advice.   I visited Kato Hobby Center in Tokyo a few days ago and what the service tech echos exactly as you stated.  I bought the Kato decoders for the 485 and the Yamaguchi passenger cars. Only clarification was on the Digitrax decoder install on EF58. The slight modification will likely be on the base of the unit not on there body shell.  

[Mutro]

On 5/8/2024 at 8:13 AM, Takahama Trainwatcher said:

You mentioned you are visiting the Kato Hobby Center in Tokyo. I believe they do decoder installations. You might have to visit them twice, though, and I don't know if you would have the time. (From memory, they have an order form on their website.)

I visited Kato Hobby Center in Tokyo a few days ago and while the service staff are very friendly and helpful, they do not do DCC installs, and knowledge of DCC decoder  installs are limited. They will direct you to their drop-in decoders if your unit happens to be paired with a Kato decoder, but older locomotives and passenger cars do not have Kato decoders to drop in. Converting their steam locos would be challenging at best according to them. They do have an array of Digitrax decoders on the shelf but they do not have a database to match decoders to Kato units, or knowledge of what it takes to install / modify. 

[Martijn Meerts]

I've installed many decoders for other people in the past. I could probably still be bothered to do so if someone really has no other option, but there are just risks involved. The majority of installs are customer and need to be hard wired. In the past, it also often involved milling parts of the frame to make space, or having the decoder being visible in the cab. With the newest decoder generation though, some brands have managed to shrink them down to the point where milling is almost never required anymore.

 

There's also always the potential of destroying a decoder, or worse, the train it's installed in. Luckily I've never had a train get busted, but I have destroyed a couple of decoders. I never asked many for the installs I did, and if I destroyed a decoder, I paid for a new one myself, so financially it wasn't great 🙂

 

I have converted several of their steamers. They can be tricky, especially the newer ones with all the details and the motor in the boiler. The motor leads are usually tiny, and in some cases the motor doesn't have tabs to solder new wires to. Often you also have power pickup in the tender and/or lights in the tender. At that point you need to make a decision whether you want to have wires from the locomotive to the tender, or install some mini-socket in case you want to be able to remove the tender.

 

My most recent steam decoder install was Kato's C50, I probably spent about 4-5 hours on that, but I do have to say, I went with installing a mini socket from the locomotive to the tender which took up quite a lot of extra time. The ones you list are all bigger though, and should be easier.