3 Pole Motor replacement for Tomix Shinkansen series 300,

[Andy110869]

 

Hi Guys

 

Welcome all, I wont say i am a fanatic about trains, but i do love them and i love the the micro engineering of the N gauge trains and quick build Kato track I use as i simply dont have room for a permanent layout.

 

To cut a long story short, i have the Tomix series 300 Bullet train and its my fast train fix, but sadly the motors wires in one of the 3 poles has unwinded shorting the loco out and rendering the Motor and train useless.  Now i have done a lot of searching in my country (UK), for this motor to no avail, or I am not inputting the right words into google.  However with some detective work I found the Tomix online catalogue and found the part:  [ 0605 ] M-5 Motor (3 Poles).  This is the link to the HS website.

 

Now they are out of stock , and i pressed the "notify me" if they come back in stock. I dont know how long the wait will be so i ask.

 

Does anyone know of a Uk supplier who sells these?

 

Infuriatingly , Aliexpress had a page where what looked like a copy of this design, on opening the link led to a completely different dc motor, after searching for 3 hours solid  I thought i hit the motherlode,  ha, that'll teach me.

 

I would appreciate any help or info if at all possible.

With thanks 

Andy

 

 

[beakaboy]

Hi. These motors were used for the earlier spring drive systems in Tomix models. There were a few different locos and a couple or so passenger trains that used the same system and motor. Possibly a member close to you may be able to sell you a secondhand loco that you can rob the motor out of it for your Shinkansen.I have several spring drive locos myself, but am based in New Zealand ,at the bottom of the world , as far as postal charges go. 

[cteno4]

Those spring drives burned out a lot of motors, so unfortunately I can see why they are sold out! I replaced 4 of these motors burned out by gummed up spring drives for club members over the years.

 

jeff

[Andy110869]

7 hours ago, beakaboy said:

Hi. These motors were used for the earlier spring drive systems in Tomix models. There were a few different locos and a couple or so passenger trains that used the same system and motor. Possibly a member close to you may be able to sell you a secondhand loco that you can rob the motor out of it for your Shinkansen.I have several spring drive locos myself, but am based in New Zealand ,at the bottom of the world , as far as postal charges go. 

 

Many thanks for the thought, but as you say, New Zealands a way away.  For now i will have to try and get familiar with hobbyist shops and send them all emails hoping they might in some small drawer have one. As Im sure suppliers go to the same Website I found them on with the same joy.  Shame is to buy an old loco, would cost a fair amount as opposed to the £6 a motor option.   I am always watching ebay now for a poor running but not dead Tomix power car.

 

2 hours ago, cteno4 said:

Those spring drives burned out a lot of motors, so unfortunately I can see why they are sold out! I replaced 4 of these motors burned out by gummed up spring drives for club members over the years.

 

jeff

I suppose their open design nature makes them more  susceptible to debris and fluff.  To ease my pain I have bought a Duchess class steam engine which will not be going scale speeds of 400mph, im just kidding!

 

[cteno4]

Yes the mech does slowly suck up schmutz and can become packed. Never seen the spring drive in a shinkansen, only locos. But for some reason those mechs are the absolute worse I’ve ever encountered being packed full of crap and having motor burnouts. They also growl quite a bit even when fully cleaned and lubed.

 

jeff

[beakaboy]

probably not helped by the fact alot of beginner people in the hobby back then set up and played with their trains on the carpet or floor

[cteno4]

I replaced the motor twice in one club member’s de15. His culprit was cats, the finest bits of the cat fur somehow are completely attracted to that mech! He had a layout, just enough of that soft down got around and I guess did not vacuum the tracks much! He gave up as the second replacement started to run erratically and growl more as he did not like taking it apart to clean out…

 

jeff

[Kamome]

It may be a difficult part to source if they've changed designs. I can't believe Tomix were using spring drive as late as 2014, when this set was released but some of their designs are questionable for such a large manufacturer. Perhaps posting some photos of the motor assembly would help so members can advise further. Part numbers for Tomix trains seemed to get updated quite frequently and are often superseded by another. I don't own any Tomix shinkansen so am unfamiliar with what mechanism components are needed.

This website shows a strip down of the same train with a worm gear mechanism.

 

https://rtmrw.parallel.jp/mycollection/ele/shin-300/shin-300-5.html

 

Not sure you will have much joy with shops in the UK. I don't think any deal with Tomix directly and those that stock Tomix are usually selling used items, and/or they've procured a large estate from someone who collected a lot of Japanese trains. 

 

I doubt body shells have changed a huge amount so it may also be a case that you could find a new chassis, ideally an updated option. You could copy and paste into a search engine.

 

トミックス300系動力ユニット   

 

Tomix 300 series Power Car Unit

 

Chrome can translate most Japanese websites into English but I think it'll be a case of Japan auction sites, or shops like Hobbyland Pochi who break apart many 2nd-hand unboxed sets and sell coaches individually, unless they're particularly collectible.

 

Good luck with the search. If Tomix announce another 300, you should be able to get a replacement chassis.

[disturbman]

4 hours ago, Kamome said:

It may be a difficult part to source if they've changed designs. I can't believe Tomix were using spring drive as late as 2014, when this set was released

You are making a mistake, 92639 is pre-2002 and ancient. The set released in 2014 is 92869. This is also quite clearly visible from the design of the case of 92639. 

Otherwise, I agree that the best chance is to find a motor unit of that vintage on Yahoo Japan Auction, either from a 300 series or from a different shinkansen.

[Kamome]

I see,  When I searched 92639 again , I can confirm it only shows me the more recent information 6 car (92869) on Tomytec's website. Probably embarrassed they were producing these mechanisms at all.

 

Thanks for pointing it out though @disturbman. You are correct. I CAN quite clearly see the design of the case and also input those exact 5 digits into a designated search field, almost simultaneously, but alas my trust in dependable search engines was obviously misguided and I failed to double-check the product code.😌

 

 

[disturbman]

Joke aside, Tomytec doesn't and afaik never listed all their products. Even some of the recent-ish ones (I go up to 2014 for "recentish) are not listed on their website. Which I always found odd.

 

Unfortunately, the only available reliable resource for release date is Hobby Search.

[chadbag]

Take a picture of your unit and mechanism so we can verify and also maybe cook something up.

 

I know for some German trains there are companies selling coreless replacement motors that are totally different motors but work and are similar form factor.  You might be able to find a motor that is similar enough to bastardize a fix?  I'm not familiar enough with this Tomix set up to know if that is something to pursuit.

[Andy110869]

12 hours ago, Kamome said:

I doubt body shells have changed a huge amount so it may also be a case that you could find a new chassis, ideally an updated option. You could copy and paste into a search engine.

 

トミックス300系動力ユニット   

 

Tomix 300 series Power Car Unit

i have, there was only one on HS, but that was terminated and out of stock. I am now looking at motors on Alexpress and trying to find something I can hack to replace it.

 

12 hours ago, Kamome said:

This website shows a strip down of the same train with a worm gear mechanism.

 

https://rtmrw.parallel.jp/mycollection/ele/shin-300/shin-300-5.html

I got excited there as before i saw it i thought an alternative motor option would be available. However my design is different.

 

i am very grateful for all your responses as it adds to my knowledge of the designs and may give me insights on getting around this

[Andy110869]

11 minutes ago, chadbag said:

Take a picture of your unit and mechanism so we can verify and also maybe cook something up.

I will do that later, i was just thinking of this very thing before you posted

[Andy110869]

Going to have to post 2 - 3 per post

[Andy110869]

[Andy110869]

[jappomania]

this is the right link

https://rtmrw.parallel.jp/mycollection/ele/shin-300-first/shin-325-700.html

the first release was in 1993, uncomplete "as usual", with 12 windows, soon correct with 13 windows but nothing changed until the renewed 92808

same engine was inside the E2 (92075), 100 series (92624), 200 series and more (a complete list on the last old catalogs pages)

anyway, if you try to find one old Shinkansen motorized chassis is much simple because you are sure also to have the righ lenght cardan shaft, finding just the motor type 0605 alone is not so easy (or better 0613 https://www.tomytec.co.jp/tomix/products/n/0613.html )

the good news, is not so impossible to find used but in good condition on Yahoo, the bad news is the shipping cost
considering the sell price is around 10-15€ or less if the upper shell is in junk condition, shipping and customs cost is more than the item

normally for a J0, I use 3 or 4 old sets, so I have enough spare engines to verify, but after Brexit also the shipping cost from Italy is not so cheap, eventually let me know if you don't solve your troubles with local shops (the first thing to evaluate is the relative low value of the 300 set, in good conditions and without yellow ends is around 70-80€)

 

ciao!

Massimo

 

Edited April 11 by jappomania

[cteno4]

Othe good news is that’s not the spring worm drive! Spring worm drive uses a spring to be the shaft and the worm gear at the end (with the spring stretched out a bit to turn the end into a worm gear).

 

jeff

[jappomania]

Hi Jeff,

but you talk about the really old Shinkansen release and "affected" only the 0-2000, 100 and 200 (first batches in blue hard cardboard bookcase and the first gray plastic released)
the wrong engine type can be recognized by the camelback engine shield trought the windows

this is a list I found with not only the Shinkansen

http://www.trainweb.org/tomix/rollingstock/springdrive.htm

 

ciao!

Massimo

[cteno4]

Massimo,

 

That wasn’t me, I never saw a spring drive in anything other than the de10 and de15. I replaced motors in one de10 and two de15s (one of them twice), due to what I assumed was brush burnout from so much resistance once totally gunked. One motor was totally dead and others the mostly ran horridly even when out of the mech and cleaned up. I never tried messing with the brushes as new motors were available and SAL shipping cheap! 
 

I tried a very thick silicone based oil (touted for big gears) once and that growled worse that using a grease. But using the grease certainly seemed to pickup more gunk fast! I ended up cleaning these locos out a fair number of times over the years for club members. Taught me never to get one!

 

jeff

[Andy110869]

14 hours ago, jappomania said:

Hi Jeff,

but you talk about the really old Shinkansen release and "affected" only the 0-2000, 100 and 200 (first batches in blue hard cardboard bookcase and the first gray plastic released)
the wrong engine type can be recognized by the camelback engine shield trought the windows

this is a list I found with not only the Shinkansen

http://www.trainweb.org/tomix/rollingstock/springdrive.htm

I have just seen that link, my god, that spring motor looks a bit archaic, but if it runs ok, does it matter?  With the little experience i have with certain n gauge, the older ones were better built and had better quality control.  I convert cameras to infrared, so i take them apart and find the newer cameras build as toyish and flimsy.  Zoom back to 12 years ago and if its a made in Japan model, you knew it would be solid, well engineered and heavy enough to kosh a chinese quality control Inspector or the staff at Hattons  UK modelling shop.  They're closed now, but they only ever sold me duds.  New is not always best.

[Andy110869]

Right, I have done some shopping, im gonna try and make my own by modifying any one of these motors off aliexpress that fit the metal chassis recess of 10mm H  20.5mm

 L, 15.5mm W

 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006417337607.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.4e8c38daqNcT6n&mp=1

 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005469005382.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.4e8c38daqNcT6n&mp=1

 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001983295914.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.4e8c38daqNcT6n&mp=1

 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002358571342.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.4e8c38daqNcT6n&mp=1

 

Now my original Tomix motor has a shaft of 1.5mm to the motor, but, a couple of these are 1mm shaft, so i was lucky to find on aliexpress 

some 1.1mm Inner Dimension to 1.5mm Outer Dimension,  304 stainless steel precision tubing.  This should slip over the smaller piping and i have some metal cement to set it into place.

There is also an issue with 2 of the other motors being a 1.5mm shaft but not being long enough, so I ordered  again some stainless steel tubing, 2mm OD to 1.5mm ID,  so i could sheath this over the 1.5mm shaft  from the motor and make small but stable tube to take the 1.5mm ID tubing.  This tiny pipe being 2mm OD means that it wont rub on the metal chassis.

As long as i get the shaft the same length and its stable and perfectly square and able to take the gearing rods, via the female plastic 1.5mm ID sheath. It might work.

 

This is the tubing https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006333885177.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.4.35981802VgHwld

I enclose a terrible diagram of what i mean, a picture paints a .....erm something

 

Edited April 12 by Andy110869

[Andy110869]

On 4/11/2024 at 3:35 PM, chadbag said:

Take a picture of your unit and mechanism so we can verify and also maybe cook something up.

 

I know for some German trains there are companies selling coreless replacement motors that are totally different motors but work and are similar form factor.  You might be able to find a motor that is similar enough to bastardize a fix?  I'm not familiar enough with this Tomix set up to know if that is something to pursuit.

I missed this point but thankyou, and yes in my search i found and have bought a coreless motor in my list above.  Whatever works best i will buy a few of the motors and convert them for the future.

[cteno4]

It will be interesting to see what you discover with these motors and your shaft connections! Also wonder if there is any plastic tubing to make pressure fit couplings.

 

jeff