Small questions about the noise of power vehicles

[Sep.]

My model makes an unexpected noise when running, I'm sure the problem comes from the bearings rubbing against the truck, but I'm pretty sure my truck’s gears are intact. So my current solution is to add some lubricant. The question arises as to what kind of lubricant I should use, the two I have found so far are Tamiya's 87099 High-Efficiency Gear Bearing Lubricant, which is designed for 4WD and RC RC cars. But the description says it has some particles added to it that I don't recognize. The other is Super Lube, a grease that my father used on his rod reels. Which one should I use? Or is there a third, better option?

Also, can I use this lubricant for my once-a-year maintenance use? Or do I wait to use it until there is a noise or a lag in running?

Thanks guys.

https://www.amazon.com/Tamiya-87099-Cera-Grease-Hg/dp/B001Q1AW64

https://www.amazon.com/Super-Lube-51010-Oil/dp/B000BXOGHY/ref=sr_1_5?hvadid=241644035653&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=1016367&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=12414544770388469465&hvtargid=kwd-2728299261&hydadcr=26614_9892224&keywords=superlube&qid=1706409244&sr=8-5

 

 

 

 

Edited January 28 by Sep.
Images

[disturbman]

Could you perhaps post a video so we can hear the noise? And tell us more about the model in question? Where you got it, item number, if it’s new or second hand, etc.

 

Motors are normally lubricated at the factory and I would check for a loose gear/drive shaft before getting into lubrication.

[cteno4]

Have you opened up the chassis yet to look at things? One thing with growling gears can be accumulation of dust, hairs, dirt, fibers, etc mixed with grease if oil. Is it an older train? Is it using a worm gear in the chassis to transfer to a round gear in the top of the truck? 
 

grease is only really used on some worm gears in n scale but even then usually a heavier oil is better on worm gears. Usually medium weight oils on truck gears and very light oils on motor bearings. N scale stuff is just a bit too small to use thicker greases on, tends to gum things up more. 
 

any lubrication should be done in very small amounts at a time, over lubrication just leads to more problems.

 

a video or photo of it would be great along with the item number and make to help diagnose and suggest solutions.

 

jeff

[Sep.]

7 hours ago, disturbman said:

Could you perhaps post a video so we can hear the noise? And tell us more about the model in question? Where you got it, item number, if it’s new or second hand, etc.

 

Motors are normally lubricated at the factory and I would check for a loose gear/drive shaft before getting into lubrication.

I got it from eBay, item number 92430, it is used. I posted a video and photos last night but I don't know why they disappeared. Just re-uploaded them.

[cteno4]

Yes looks and sounds pretty dry. It’s probably at least 10 years old. Yes either a medium oil or even a grease on those worm gears would be good. I still shy away from greases as usually just too heavy for small gears. For the truck gears a medium oil and for the motor bearings (where the shaft enters the motor) a very light oil, like watch oil. Labelles is a good brand of model lubricants. For the motor bearings you want a very fine oil and just a tiny amount as too much and the bearings get very mucked up. Labelles 108 works well for the motor bearings and shaft ends on gear shafts. #102 works great on gears and even the worm gears. If you want to use grease on the worm gears you can use #106 grease.
 

start with the motor out. Apply a light oil very sparingly like a tiny bit on the tip of a toothpick and run for a bit and if see if it quiets some. If still a little raspy try a second application and run awhile.

 

reassemble the trucks applying a little oil to gears again just very sparingly with a toothpick. Reassemble the chassis and oil the work gear and pop the trucks in. Give it a run for 5 or 10 minutes to see if the gears all quiet down. If still grumbling some pop the trucks off and apply a bit more oil to the work gears and the truck gears, reassemble and run a while and hopefully it will start to purr.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[Sep.]

k that‘s helpful…but really hard to find labelles in China…only 105 on amazon cn…i will try some watch or carmera oil

Edited January 28 by disturbman

[cteno4]

Labelles 105 is a track cleaner not an oil. 
 

you can get a 3 pack of 102, 106, and 107 on Amazon.cn. Unfortunately 106 and 107 are a bit heavy for n scale use.

 

A watch or fine camera oil would worm for the motor bearings, don’t want to use any heavier oils on the bearings as they will really gum up on small motors.

 

good thing is small bottle of oil will last you the rest of your life!

 

I’ve moved to nano-oil and am linking it. Pricy, but again you only have to buy it once in your life!

 

jeff

[Sep.]

I can find 5w 10w and 85w nano oil in china which one should i buy？

[cteno4]

If you get the 85 and the 10 you can use the 1p on the bearings and 85 on the gears. If the 85 is too thick for something you can also just mix a little of the 10 into the 85 to thin it down. The 5 is meant to be very penetrating oil to get into tight places or rusted parts. Not as much of an issue in model trains usually.

 

ive liked it, its less oily with time so i think tends to pick up less smutz with time. In theory the buckyballs should be an ultimate lubricant surface. A friend who is ex law enforcement and still does a fair amount of handgun work has liked it on his gun as seems smoother action and less oiliness to deal with.

 

jeff

[disturbman]

5 hours ago, cteno4 said:

Unfortunately 106 is a bit heavy for n scale use.

You think so? Afaik, that's what (some of) the manufacturers use to grease their gears. I also have been using it quite a lot and never had any problems with it. Though my trains don't tend to get a lot of running.

@Sep.  The noise is quite high-pitched and not something I would personally associate with dry gears (my experience is that dry gears normally translates into a bassy crunchy noise). But still, try to clean up completely the gear assembly, add lubricant to the gears and two small drops behind the flywheels. It's good to do on such "old" second hand sets as you never know their history.

Edited January 28 by disturbman

[cteno4]

Over the years I’ve gotten away from greases and thicker oils primarily as those have also been situations where I have found the most crap caked in into things. Just figured it was stickier to trap every bit of schmutz into that eventual caked crap. Also just reading around a while back everyone said smaller gears means lighter oils. Labelle even does not recommend 106 for n scale, they stop at HO.

 

the worst offenders with grease was Tomix and their spring worm drive and they would pack it in grease as its was not a high tolerance worm gear and moved around a lot. Those would get packed with crap very quickly and the resulting muck actually stop the drive. I witnessed this a half dozen times on club members’ locos and even when I cleaned it out well (and twice had to replace resulting burned out motors) and regressed with a more modern grease that does not dry out as much, they were packed with gunk very quickly. It seemed to vacuum up the schmutz. 
 

I’ve had good personal luck once I went to lighter oils for the truck gears and worm gears (I use to use something closer to 106) on things staying quiet and smooth and little if ever relubing required. I’m hoping it’s even better with the nano-oil. From my friend’s gun reports he thinks it’s staying power is good (that’s a bit tougher environment).

 

I’ve heard dry gears make very high pitched sounds like this, especially with Tomix for some reason. It’s ironic as one of those whiners I remember was a club member’s Tomix 923 at a show like a decade back. Squealed like a stuck pig. I lubed it up and nice and smooth and quiet. Over the years I’ve probably come across at least a dozen or more brand new trains that appeared to be shipped completely unlubed (but I have a few hundred trains and more with club exposure), so even new ones can at time start out whining.

 

jeff

[disturbman]

26 minutes ago, cteno4 said:

Labelle even does not recommend 106 for n scale, they stop at HO.

They do, they sell it in a pack for N & Z scale, https://labelle-lubricants.com/shop/kit-with-one-each-102106-and-108-for-n-and-z-scale-model-trains/

Could they have updated their recipe?

[cteno4]

Sorry my I was talking about 107 oil, they don’t recommend for n scale. I just now avoid greases like 106 on small stuff.

 

i wish labelle had a more consistent nomenclature as the numbers have nothing really to do with what the oil/grease is.

 

jeff