Retirement 209-0 Series

[VVVF]

 

209Series of Keihintouhoku Line and Negishi Line retired at January 24.

6 Doors car is a plan of the dissolution.

[CaptOblivious]

I always thought the 209-0 was emblematic of the Keihin Tohoku line. All things must pass, and this series in particular was designed for a short life-span. Sayonara, 209-0!

[ToniBabelony]

Too bad. I never had much up with the 209-0 series and  they were a problematic bunch of trains. Anyways, gokuro-sama and sayonara! I'll remember the rides when I play Densha de GO!

 

Like the Japanese would say: 「209系０番は今，懐かしくなった〜。」"Ah, the 209-0 Series has now become 'natsukashii' (a good memory of the past)"

[Guest ___]

Well, the 231's on the current Yamanote Line fleet don't have all that much time left either. Three or four years tops. It's not like the old days where they'd run the 103's to death and beyond.

[bill937ca]

A lot of JR trains are disappearing.  The last of the Series 400 Shinkansen should be out of service and scrapped this year. Apparently the NEX 253 are being scrapped.  The six door E231s from Yamanote are being scrapped once the new trailers arrive.  Still I've seen photos of trains with six door cars on at least three other Tokyo lines.

[ToniBabelony]

Apparently the NEX 253 are being scrapped.

 

Really? That's a shame. They should've been sold to a 3rd sector company. I'd have loved to see these on some back-road railway, though they are quite unsuitable for such purposes.

[westfalen]

Apparently the NEX 253 are being scrapped.

 

Really? That's a shame. They should've been sold to a 3rd sector company. I'd have loved to see these on some back-road railway, though they are quite unsuitable for such purposes.

That would mean some even older units would be scrapped, it's a bit of a let down now to travel all day to some off the beaten track 3rd sector line only to find a modern train. I guess it's better than those lines closing altogether though.

 

In the past electric trains, MU's or locomotives had very long lives because there was nothing to wear out apart from the motors, in this technological age, like everything else, they seem to be outdated as soon as they are on the tracks.

[bikkuri bahn]

Earlier this month passing through Aomori, I saw some surplus 209 units at the depot there.  Interesting to see these units so far north and removed from their DC territory.  Apparently they are being stored there temporarily as there is no storage space at the currently busy Omiya and Nagano depots.

[bill937ca]

 

That would mean some even older units would be scrapped, it's a bit of a let down now to travel all day to some off the beaten track 3rd sector line only to find a modern train. I guess it's better than those lines closing altogether though.

 

 

 

Westfalen: Have you heard the Choshi Electric is being modernized with third-hand ex-Keio units via Iyotetsu?

 

http://rainbow-line.way-nifty.com/railfan/2010/01/coming-soon2000.html

 

Say goodbye to these units.

 

http://rainbow-line.way-nifty.com/railfan/2010/01/702-6223.html

 

 

[westfalen]

 

That would mean some even older units would be scrapped, it's a bit of a let down now to travel all day to some off the beaten track 3rd sector line only to find a modern train. I guess it's better than those lines closing altogether though.

 

 

 

Westfalen: Have you heard the Choshi Electric is being modernized with third-hand ex-Keio units via Iyotetsu?

 

http://rainbow-line.way-nifty.com/railfan/2010/01/coming-soon2000.html

 

Say goodbye to these units.

 

http://rainbow-line.way-nifty.com/railfan/2010/01/702-6223.html

 

 

Yes, I had heard that and am glad that I rode it in 2006, but as I say, it is good to see investment in the line. It would have been easy for them to use the old cars as a case for abandonment.

[ToniBabelony]

True that the older types habve to go for newer types. A shame, but some railway companies, like Nagaden (the old 2000 Series) and Towada (older Tokyu cars and two electric engines) seem to preserve older models for railfans and keep them in a running state.

 

Also, I hope Choshi is preserving one or two of the older units. That is, if they have the place for their storage.

[Mudkip Orange]

The question I have is, if EVERYONE switches to trains which need to be scrapped at the end of their "design life," what will happen to the rural lines in 40-50 years?

 

Granted that right now there's an ample supply of 60's and 70's-era stuff that was built to last. But the private lines are buying derivatives of the same disposable trains that JR uses now. In 50 years there won't be any equivalent to the 10X or 16X series to pass on.

 

Since so many of the rural lines are marginal and could never afford new equipment, you wonder if they might be sowing the seeds of their own "Beeching Axe" style cull...

[bill937ca]

Japan's population is aging and dropping and the rate has accelerated in the last year. By 2050 Japan is expected to have a population of 92 million by 2050 instead of 127 million now. That's a decline of 27.5%. By 2100 the population is expected to be 46.4 million.

 

http://www.ipss.go.jp/pp-newest/e/ppfj02/t_3_e.html

 

http://www.ipss.go.jp/pp-newest/e/ppfj02/Rt_3_e.html

 

I suspect many lines will close, the variety of equipment will be lost as JR standardizes on fewer types and many lines will run less frequently because there will be less traffic. I wonder what the model railway industry will look like with fewer trains and fewer modelers. Will Kato and the other smaller manufactuters survive the declining market?

 

As ever Japan remains closed and is unwilling to allow immigration.  That I suspect won't change either as it reflects the culture.

 

These are the "good old days". 

[bill937ca]

 

Also, I hope Choshi is preserving one or two of the older units. That is, if they have the place for their storage.

 

You know Choshi barely survives by selling rice crackers?

 

http://web-japan.org/nipponia/nipponia43/en/feature/feature04.html#005

 

http://www.japaneserailwaysociety.com/jrs/members/colin/cabbage/cabbage.htm

 

 

[disturbman]

One never really know what's the future holds in terms of population growth. One can make up trends but the decline can also be stabilized or inversed. It might however need a cultural or society change.

 

For sure it will decline but how big will it be? No one has any idea.

 

Just look at France's fertility rate. It's historically unbelievably different that the rest of the European countries. It follows some general trends but it's totally on another pace. Once the most populated area France has seen an overall relative decline until Germany became the most populated country of Europe. Now, France have one of the highest fertility rate of the EU. It's averaging at 2. I'm not sure anyone can explain why.

 

Take a look at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_France

 

That's quite compeling. So, as far as we know, once Japan has loosed a third of it's population or so the birth rate is going to skyrocket (because like for the fishies our primate brain will decide that there is now enough space for growth - I'm joking).

[ToniBabelony]

You know Choshi barely survives by selling rice crackers?

 

Yup. I also believe they have their own brand of soy-sauce, but I'm not sure. This is one of the small companies that I'll surely be visiting later this year :)

[bikkuri bahn]

You know Choshi barely survives by selling rice crackers?

 

Yup. I also believe they have their own brand of soy-sauce, but I'm not sure. This is one of the small companies that I'll surely be visiting later this year :)

 

I believe that would be Yamasa Shoyu.  Their rather large factory is located adjacent to the terminal of the Choshi Dentetsu at Choshi, but I don't think they have any business tie-up with the railway

[Guest ___]

A lot of JR trains are disappearing.  The last of the Series 400 Shinkansen should be out of service and scrapped this year. Apparently the NEX 253 are being scrapped.  The six door E231s from Yamanote are being scrapped once the new trailers arrive.  Still I've seen photos of trains with six door cars on at least three other Tokyo lines.

 

Saw sometihng on the Japanese news the other day about the 185's going away soon as well.

[Guest ___]

The question I have is, if EVERYONE switches to trains which need to be scrapped at the end of their "design life," what will happen to the rural lines in 40-50 years?

 

Granted that right now there's an ample supply of 60's and 70's-era stuff that was built to last. But the private lines are buying derivatives of the same disposable trains that JR uses now. In 50 years there won't be any equivalent to the 10X or 16X series to pass on.

 

Since so many of the rural lines are marginal and could never afford new equipment, you wonder if they might be sowing the seeds of their own "Beeching Axe" style cull...

 

Many of the rural lines are owned by bigger companies and will most likely get hand me downs. I think the trend in removing older designs is partially to introduce newer technologies for automation, improved ride quality, improved customer experience. As with the cattle cars being scrapped, that's so JR-E can install safety doors on the stations a trend one should expect to see continue. There's always going to be surplus rolling stock for the larger private lines, and the smaller rural lines.

[ToniBabelony]

I believe that would be Yamasa Shoyu.  Their rather large factory is located adjacent to the terminal of the Choshi Dentetsu at Choshi, but I don't think they have any business tie-up with the railway

 

I believe the freight trains from the factory were hauled by the DEKI 1~3 engines in yesteryear: http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/銚子電気鉄道デキ3形電気機関車 (translated by Google: [http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fja.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F%25E9%258A%259A%25E5%25AD%2590%25E9%259B%25BB%25E6%25B0%2597%25E9%2589%2584%25E9%2581%2593%25E3%2583%2587%25E3%2582%25AD3%25E5%25BD%25A2%25E9%259B%25BB%25E6%25B0%2597%25E6%25A9%259F%25E9%2596%25A2%25E8%25BB%258A]HERE[/url]).

 

Also, this part of the Choushi Dentetsu website is damn cute: http://chodenshop.com/cd/index.htm