Low-cost Cardboard T-Trak Modules

[Cat]

For humidity, spraying them all around with varnish should help.  The open corrugation ends would still let some moisture creep in though.

[cteno4]

Yeah it will be an experiment to see what humidity does to these. When I made a lot of large exhibit models out of corrugated cardboard it was in Monterey right on the water and medium humidity but little surges daily with fog and such. Never had a big problem with warping of cardboard, chipboards, mat boards, fomecore or even ply and lumber.  But moving to DC that changed a lot! Going from hot swamp to cold and dry every year, I’ve found most everything warping eventually! I think I may do an experiment and leave one in the bathroom where showers steam it up and try some time acceleration tests.

 

jeff

[Tony Galiani]

Quick update on my progress.  I had planned to finish this over the holiday weekend but realized my propensity to rush things did not help me get good results and I really want to make this little module look as good as possible.  So just a bit of solid progress - I used some artist's cardstock to build up the flat areas - wanted to get away from a very flat look for the scenery.  Then I covered it with some lightweight joint compound making no effort to get it smooth but rather letting it stay uneven.  After it dried overnight, I did some painting and added a first layer of flock.  I had previously weathered the Kato track pieces so glued them in place as well.

 

Tonight I hope to add more flock to continue building up the scenic area.  I also have some ancient WS tree kits - they are actually soft white metal castings which really dates them.  I primed them when I primed the module and have started to dry brush them to improve their appearance.  So more work on them later today as well.

 

Ciao,

Tony

[tossedman]

Nice start! Looking good Tony!

[Tony Galiani]

Once again I am falling behind my planned schedule and it does not look like my project will get done this weekend.  Which is okay - slowing down and taking my time seems to be producing good results for me so I can't complain.  Heavy music and work week coming up but I am getting close to completion and expect to finish it next weekend.

 

In the meantime, I have gotten the ground cover in place and have started adding trees - as you can see from the picture below, it is still pretty bare - only 26 more trees to go!  And then I need to complete adding the bushes - you can see a couple of trial bits on there now and I plan to add more today.  The card (especially with the additional layers of artist card I added to raise the ground level) is surprisingly strong.  I had to resort to using a drill to make holes to plant the trees.  (Or maybe I am surprisingly weak?)

 

I also have Kato catenary poles to add.  I painted them last night - just need to touch them up and weather them.

 

So two pics to show progress.

Ciao,

Tony

 

 

[Tony Galiani]

And done:

[cteno4]

Nice winter scene tony!

 

has the module stayed flat after you applied paint and scenery? Did you hit the top with any spray lacquer before doing the scenery?

 

have you tried connecting it to another module?

 

jeff

[Tony Galiani]

Thanks Jeff.

 

So far so good - it has stayed flat with no signs of warping or damage to the structure.  I did spray it with Krylon primer before I started any scenic work.  And I have not tried to connect it with another module - need to try that out at some point.

 

I am blown away by the design - great work by @tossedman and I really appreciate the opportunity to evaluate this.  I have not added any veneer to the sides at this point.  Thinking that the design could be a talking point if I ever take it out to a show.

 

Ciao,

Tony

[tossedman]

Thanks Tony! Module's looking good. It'd fit right in here in Calgary. Woke up to a balmy -35°C this morning. Brrrr!

 

Got a few more mods coming to the module. Going to try it with three leveling screws instead of four. Worked really well on the last wood modules I made. Not sure why I didn't think of it for these cardboard ones.

 

Cheers,

 

Todd

[Tony Galiani]

Todd -  I really appreciate the opportunity to test drive the module.  Feeling more confident that I can make something worthwhile with the wood modules I have but have been hesitant to work on.

 

And thanks for the weather update?  We are heading up to Fredericton for my mother-in-law's birthday next week and it looks like we are heading for similar weather.  Why are we doing this?  United had us booked on a Max 9 for the first leg of our trip - I should have taken the hint and told my wife we needed to cancel!

 

Cheers,

Tony

[cteno4]

So I did an experiment on the first gen module and put Arleen’s tacky glue (it’s a thick PVA glue) along all the top and corner exposed corrugated edge ends. It really stiffened up the top edge (and also did bottom corners as well) so they can take dings without creasing ends. Corners too are now pretty hard. Probably should have done it after a lacquer coat but been bit too cool here to spray the lacquer. Also adds a tad of heft to the module as they are extremely light.

 

one concern will be detaching modules from each other. This usually can put a fair amount of torque on the track. I almost always use a flat screwdriver to slip between the two tracks and just twist some. Pops the track apart with minimal stress on tracks. But can’t do this on the cardboard ones.

 

jeff

[tossedman]

1 hour ago, Tony Galiani said:

Todd -  I really appreciate the opportunity to test drive the module.  Feeling more confident that I can make something worthwhile with the wood modules I have but have been hesitant to work on.

 

And thanks for the weather update?  We are heading up to Fredericton for my mother-in-law's birthday next week and it looks like we are heading for similar weather.  Why are we doing this?  United had us booked on a Max 9 for the first leg of our trip - I should have taken the hint and told my wife we needed to cancel!

 

Cheers,

Tony

Not sure the weather update will be of much help Tony. Don't think this polar vortex has hit New Brunswick. It is 2737 mi (4405 km) away after all. In Canadian distances that's about a 45 hour drive. Funny how we time for distance up here. "How far is it to Edmonton?" "Oh, about three hours." Now the Max 9 might have been a good hint. How good are you at checking bolts?

 

Cheers,

 

Todd

Edited January 14 by tossedman

[tossedman]

1 hour ago, cteno4 said:

So I did an experiment on the first gen module and put Arleen’s tacky glue (it’s a thick PVA glue) along all the top and corner exposed corrugated edge ends. It really stiffened up the top edge (and also did bottom corners as well) so they can take dings without creasing ends. Corners too are now pretty hard. Probably should have done it after a lacquer coat but been bit too cool here to spray the lacquer. Also adds a tad of heft to the module as they are extremely light.

 

one concern will be detaching modules from each other. This usually can put a fair amount of torque on the track. I almost always use a flat screwdriver to slip between the two tracks and just twist some. Pops the track apart with minimal stress on tracks. But can’t do this on the cardboard ones.

 

jeff

Good points Jeff. I'll have to try detaching modules and see if it causes any issues. The tacky glue is a great idea to stiffen things up. Looks like it's time for me to put some track on one of my cardboard modules.

 

Cheers,

 

Todd

[cteno4]

Yeah I was waiting to lacquer cost mine before tacking track on. My fear is the usual the pressure folks may put on the sides near the end to do the usual back and forth rocking to pull the modules apart may cave the sides some. If that’s a case maybe laminating 4 pieces into the sides may help this but complicate assembly a bit as they would need to be glued on the side before assembly as hot glue would get in the way of adding them after assembly with hot glue. But putting in etch lines for where to align them might make it easier.

 

another option would be to make small notches in the roadbed between the rails to pop a small screwdriver into and pop each track. But that’s a harder one for a newbie to do.

 

jeff

[Tony Galiani]

I do not have any experience with these modules outside of this project but thought I would mention some of the construction I did.

After using the primer on it, I added a couple of layers of cardstock (each about 1mm thick) to the rear portion of the scene.  I would guess that helps with stiffness but my main purpose was to get away from the flat look of the original surface.  I then use spackle (or joint compound or whatever it is called these days) to cover the entire surface except for the track.  I had previously glued on two pieces of Kato double track in the appropriate location.  I then painted the visible surface with acrylic texture paint before adding the scenic texture material.

I also had to use a drill for the holes for the trees - the surface was too strong for me to make any holes with an awl.  I might have succeeded with that if I had used a hammer or really applied a lot of force but didn't want to take a chance on distorting the module.  I will say it help up very well to my initial attempts with the awl.

 

Ciao,

Tony

[dwells77]

On 11/15/2023 at 3:42 PM, tossedman said:

Thanks Tony, Yugami Tsuki and Jeff.

 

Question to all. Is there anyone out there who has, or has access to, a laser cutter that would like to give this a try? Please let me know. I'm working on moving parts around to make them easier to cut on a smaller laser cutter like a Glowforge.

 

Todd

Hello Todd,

 

It has been a few months since this post was created, however, I wanted to share with you that I had presented a similar idea on the T-Trak Facebook group found here:

 

 Cardboard T-Trak module experiment

 

about a year and several months prior to your post. I was elated to see that I wasn't the only one that has considered using all of the leftover Amazon boxes to construct T-Trak benchwork! My module design was a bit less decorative than yours, but just as functional. I never really did anything with the idea as it seemed to fizzle out rather quickly. I suppose if I had completed an actual module, it may have sparked more interest. After seeing this thread I believe the interest is still there. What is lacking though, is the availability.

 

I would like to download, cut out, and assemble one of your designs to get an idea of production lead time. I do have a laser at home with a working area of 500mm x 400mm, more than enough room to cut out parts, though only with a 10W diode laser. I do have plans to upgrade to at least 20W, but that is still a ways off. Any further thoughts on this endeavor?

 

Thanks for listening!

 

Sincerely,

Donnell Wells

[tossedman]

Hi Donnell,

 

Glad you found us. Those modules you made are great! Well done. It's interesting as to how similar mine are to yours even though they were developed in isolation from each other. I'm posting an SVG file of my latest version. The art boards are 500mm X 335 mm so you ought to be able to cut these as is. Have at it and let us know your thoughts here. Post some pics here as well! I'll post mine to Facebook to see if we can't generate more interest.

 

I haven't looked at it in a few months as I've been as busy as at work. I still plan to make a video about how I assemble one using a hot glue gun. I need to get going on this. It'd be cool to see this made more popular as it's a really inexpensive way to make T-Trak modules (if you have access to a laser cutter).

 

Looking forward to what you come up with.

 

Cheers,

 

Todd

T-Trak_Cardboard_4mm_Artboard 1.svg T-Trak_Cardboard_4mm_Artboard 2.svg

[cteno4]

Donnell, 

 

very cool to see two folks come to the same point! I really do see these as a good alternative, especially for newbies! Price on modules just keeps going up as well as shipping costs and Baltic birch. I talk to so many people at public events that are interested and when they ask costs and I say well it’s about $50 or so for the module base and track and I see the majority of them turn off at that. Also something about a wooden kit smacks of woodworking which scares a lot of newbies. Also assembly with a hot glue gun is a cinch and that’s a very affordable and useful tool for anyone for all sorts of stuff. 
 

maybe we can get Amazon to print the pattern on a box or make one of their boxes the perfect module size!

 

while it didn’t look near as fancy like 15 years ago I made a base out of foam core just cutting it up with a matte knife and then PVA gluing it using a few pins to hold it together for drying. Just put one half-height support across the center to help stiffen it. Seemed to be completely sturdy. Was just a proof of concept but it worked fine, very stiff and sturdy. But requires you be able to cut some foamcore with a matte knife and straight edge, but not hard.
 

cheers,

 

jeff

[dwells77]

5 hours ago, tossedman said:

Hi Donnell,

 

Glad you found us. Those modules you made are great! Well done. It's interesting as to how similar mine are to yours even though they were developed in isolation from each other. I'm posting an SVG file of my latest version. The art boards are 500mm X 335 mm so you ought to be able to cut these as is. Have at it and let us know your thoughts here. Post some pics here as well! I'll post mine to Facebook to see if we can't generate more interest.

 

I haven't looked at it in a few months as I've been as busy as at work. I still plan to make a video about how I assemble one using a hot glue gun. I need to get going on this. It'd be cool to see this made more popular as it's a really inexpensive way to make T-Trak modules (if you have access to a laser cutter).

 

Looking forward to what you come up with.

 

Cheers,

 

Todd

T-Trak_Cardboard_4mm_Artboard 1.svg 16.55 kB · 0 downloads T-Trak_Cardboard_4mm_Artboard 2.svg 1.65 kB · 0 downloads

Thanks for the quick response. I wasn't sure this thread was still being monitored, but I thought I would take a chance. Last night I ordered a new honeycomb laser bed for my laser engraver/cutting machine. The size of the new laser bed is 37.4 x 19.68 x 0.87 inches (950 x 500 x 22 mm) and will easily fit 11" x 14" to 11" x 17" cardboard sheets from Amazon, or 18" x 14" to 20" x 16" cardboard sheets from Uline. I may just bite the bullet and order the 20W laser... This is kind of getting me back excited again about the prospects of this becoming a reality.

 

Pretty cool stuff!

 

PS - I down loaded the files but it seems that dimensions cam up short. What are the dimensions of the module supposed to be? Because when I load your file into Lightburn, I get 231mm X 172.5mm.

 

PPS - I think I figured it out. I locked the aspect ratio, and then increased the length to 308mm, and that seemed to have done the trick giving me a dimension of 308mm x 230mm. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Edited March 11 by dwells77

[dwells77]

4 hours ago, cteno4 said:

Donnell, 

 

very cool to see two folks come to the same point! I really do see these as a good alternative, especially for newbies! Price on modules just keeps going up as well as shipping costs and Baltic birch. I talk to so many people at public events that are interested and when they ask costs and I say well it’s about $50 or so for the module base and track and I see the majority of them turn off at that. Also something about a wooden kit smacks of woodworking which scares a lot of newbies. Also assembly with a hot glue gun is a cinch and that’s a very affordable and useful tool for anyone for all sorts of stuff. 
 

maybe we can get Amazon to print the pattern on a box or make one of their boxes the perfect module size!

 

while it didn’t look near as fancy like 15 years ago I made a base out of foam core just cutting it up with a matte knife and then PVA gluing it using a few pins to hold it together for drying. Just put one half-height support across the center to help stiffen it. Seemed to be completely sturdy. Was just a proof of concept but it worked fine, very stiff and sturdy. But requires you be able to cut some foamcore with a matte knife and straight edge, but not hard.
 

cheers,

 

jeff

Regarding material cost and product pricing, affordability would definitely be a driving factor in capturing the budget-conscious market. Material cost is anywhere between $0.50- $1.20 per sheet depending on several factors. It takes two sheets to produce one module. So, not accounting for set-up and cutting time, packaging and labeling, and shipping, one complete module could cost anywhere from $1-$2.50 to produce, one module sold at $15 - $25 would easily pay for the production of several more modules. This venture has potential.

 

Donnell

 

 

[cteno4]

 

2 hours ago, dwells77 said:

This venture has potential

yes I agree if sold with track it might be the best for a beginner set. Shipping costs are still a bit of an issue as in any sort of box the shipping is most like over $7 in the us. Other issue is the cut doc has to be modified to the exact thickness of the cardboard being used. I’ve got commercial cardboard here from various sources and it varies a lot in thickness and these days some may say 3mm but it’s actually 2.8mm

 

jeff

[dwells77]

3 hours ago, cteno4 said:

 

yes I agree if sold with track it might be the best for a beginner set. Shipping costs are still a bit of an issue as in any sort of box the shipping is most like over $7 in the us. Other issue is the cut doc has to be modified to the exact thickness of the cardboard being used. I’ve got commercial cardboard here from various sources and it varies a lot in thickness and these days some may say 3mm but it’s actually 2.8mm

 

jeff

Your are correct about the thickness of the cardboard. Additionally, given the 10W power limit on my laser, 3mm sheets would be easier to process as I can cut these in a single pass as opposed to 2 passes with the 4mm thick material. I was able to cut out the module's framing members using some 4mm thick Amazon boxes I had saved, and glued the pieces together with medium thick CA. It doesn't take long using this method, and goes even faster with accelerator. Just make sure that the joints are held tightly together before applying the accelerator. The resulting frame, minus the top, is fairly rigid, and weights a whopping 2 ounces! With the top installed, this thing will probably top out at somewhere between 4 to 6 ounces. Talk about lightweight! The addition of track, wiring, and scenery may add a few pounds to the overall module weight, but I doubt that it will exceed 5lbs. One could quickly assemble several units and have a decent sized portable layout in a few evenings! One thing I would like to do is laminate the face of the module with chipboard or matte board to hide the finger joints and give the module a smooth fascia.

 

As for shipping, USPS Ground Advantage is the most economical at somewhere between $8 and $16 for packages weighing over 15.99999 ounces

 

Donnell

Edited March 12 by dwells77

[tossedman]

17 hours ago, dwells77 said:

Thanks for the quick response. I wasn't sure this thread was still being monitored, but I thought I would take a chance. Last night I ordered a new honeycomb laser bed for my laser engraver/cutting machine. The size of the new laser bed is 37.4 x 19.68 x 0.87 inches (950 x 500 x 22 mm) and will easily fit 11" x 14" to 11" x 17" cardboard sheets from Amazon, or 18" x 14" to 20" x 16" cardboard sheets from Uline. I may just bite the bullet and order the 20W laser... This is kind of getting me back excited again about the prospects of this becoming a reality.

 

Pretty cool stuff!

 

PS - I down loaded the files but it seems that dimensions cam up short. What are the dimensions of the module supposed to be? Because when I load your file into Lightburn, I get 231mm X 172.5mm.

 

PPS - I think I figured it out. I locked the aspect ratio, and then increased the length to 308mm, and that seemed to have done the trick giving me a dimension of 308mm x 230mm. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Hi Donnell,

 

Not sure why the dimensions came up short. The top should be 308mm X 230mm. My laser cutter uses red lines for cut and blue lines for engrave so you'll have to adjust accordingly. I'm using an 80W Trotec CO2 laser so am able to cut in one pass. It's fast too!

 

I've attached a PDF document of the module. It has a few small edits where I missed things earlier, such as the long cross brace having the wrong width slot. It also has some tiny blue triangles to engrave on it to indicate where the bridges are and so make it easier to cut out. This file has three art boards. The third one is edge protectors that I used when shipping. I wrapped the whole module with these to stop the corners from crushing in the mail. This whole thing fits into a 10 X 13 in envelope and is thin enough and light enough to ship by letter mail using Canada Post. I've shipped one to the USA and another here in Canada and both seem to have arrived in good shape. Shipping was cheap. Less than $5.00 (CAD) to ship in Canada and I think about $9.00 (CAD) to ship to the US from Canada. Check with your post office where you are. Jeff can attest to how it survived shipping internationally.

 

My cardboard is from Uline. It's pretty consistent in thickness; within ±0.07mm of 4mm. We have good luck over the past three or so years using 4mm as the thickness and designing accordingly. A few hundredths of a mm won't make any appreciable difference.

 

Please let me know how it goes and anything that you thing could be improved upon.

 

Cheers,

 

Todd

 

Try this file

T-Trak_Cardboard_4mm_MK9.pdf