Tram inclines

[Robsr]

I’m still in the process of planning my railway layout as it’s grown to a 21ft x 9ft size.

I will have one flat long loop with two green mover max units on it and I’ll have a cityscape type area with the Kato Piccola / Piccolo units running on a double loop. 
I know that inclines for trains is recommended at 1:40 or 1:50 depending on where you look but what sort of incline could the Piccola / Piccolo be expected to handle as I’ll need to raise one area that they will be running in?

thanks

 

[MeTheSwede]

If you have the relevant rolling stock at hand, your best option is probably to test it for yourself, noting what works good enough for straight and curved inclines.

[cteno4]

Also if you have the tram on hand you can check the speed changes with inclines as if you want to run the tram just setting the throttle and letting it go against running the throttle constantly as it speeds up and slows down with inclines.

 

jeff

[bill937ca]

An issue you may run into with an articulated tram is how much give the articulation has vertically. Without special adjustments prototype articulated LRVs are usually are limited to 5% or less grades.

Edited October 29, 2023 by bill937ca

[cteno4]

Good point bill!
 

You can make a curved vertical transition (to help from transition happening all at once at a rail joint) but sawing cuts thru the road bed almost to the track like every 1/4” and then gently being the track vertically into a smooth curve over the length of the track. One of our club members use to live to make temp layouts with big grades 5%+ and had a lot of uncoupling and some derailment issues with regular trains and I made him some transition pieces like this and things worked much better. They were 248 straights.

 

jeff

[Robsr]

Thanks Jeff. I had an idea of using the incline starter ramps or what you’ve suggested but I prefer your idea as I’ll probably be able to get closer to 1 in 25/30 that way

[cteno4]

Give it a try, I used razor saw and the little xacto miter box and a couple of tv programs. Will be interesting to see how the articulated trams do on this, I’ve never run them up onto an incline.

 

jeff

[inobu]

You should plan out the theme of your layout first. For a mass transit layout 21ft is a 3 to 5 city layout. Where the shinkansen 

travels from city to city. That layout is emulating hundreds of miles.

 

That's same 21ft can emulate a single city with a numbers of districts displaying light rail transit. Trams are localized transits within the city.

so the elevations variances can be subtle unless you are modeling San Francisco.

 

A 21ft layout can open the doors for a costly mistake if not planned out well. 

 

A layout is a vision that you are trying to sell to the viewer. 31ft is 1 mile in N Scale and we have mountains and valleys on a 4x8 layout.

 

I learned from this image....The builder started off in the wrong direction and kept trying to band-aid the layout. His only way

out was to destroy the layout so he would stop trying to recover from a wrong direction build.....

 

https://quinntopia.blogspot.com/2014/06/five-big-layout-mistakesthat-made-me.html

 

21 x 9 is a huge endeavor for a second or third build........It takes at least 3 to 4 builds to get it some what right.

 

Inobu

Edited November 4, 2023 by disturbman
unnecessary line jumps

[cteno4]

9’ wide layout is also an issue as you can only effectively reach in to do much work about 2’ in. You can reach to maybe 3’, but don’t do much in the way of effective work. At 9’ wide you will need to reach in 4.5’, pretty much impossible.

 

is your 21’x9’ plan in a giant donut arrangement with an open section in the middle for access? This would work if you had 3’ wide layout loop with a 3’ access area in the center. Then your cities could be laid out in a line along the long loop and rural and scenic sections in between as desired. This would give you a layout line like 60’ long and each city could have its own tram systems in a 3’ wide layout strip for a city.

 

it is also a huge amount of area for scenery as well. Cost for structures and time for scenery will be big investments.

 

as inobu mentions it’s important to not only plan ahead on your layout plan, but also very important to plan how you will work on it and the investment necessary to complete it.

 

jeff

[Robsr]

@inobu I’ve had a few big layouts in the past as well as helping to build others with / for friends.

22 x 9 is around the normal size that I’ve been involved in. The train tracks and wiring has been planned for a while but it’s the tram sections that I need to confirm. The whole layout will have a port theme allowing for various freight formations as well as passenger, including a full length Eurostar.

Edited November 4, 2023 by disturbman
unnecessary quote

[Robsr]

 

@cteno4 Sorry Jeff, I should’ve explained in the original post that it will be a 3ft wide loop all the way round the outside with two 3ft x 3ft access holes in the middle so that I can have things like a MPD where the crossover boards go.

Edited November 4, 2023 by disturbman

[cteno4]

Ok makes sense now.

 

what exactly will your tram sections be? More info is needed to help.

 

jeff

[Robsr]

I’m not 100% sure yet but it’ll either be a Kato TV1 at each end with links between them or one set with a light rail system going to the other end and back again 

Because of the levels of some of the railway loops I might need to raise one section of tramway 20-25mm to go over two lines.