Help in finding a hospital in Kobe

[Kingmeow]

We'll be visiting Japan next month.  It'll be my first time but not for my wife.  I will be in train heaven as I'm a big N-Scaler and 1:1 train fan in the US.  I run Kato's all the time at train shows with my N-Scale club.

 

I'm starting to get ready for the big trip in forming an itinerary on where to go and what to do.  Hotels are booked and we have already received our JR Rail Passes.

 

I was wondering if there are more knowledgeable people here who could assist me in locating the hospital where my father was born in Kobe.  My grandfather, whom I've never met, was in Japan on business when my grandmother (also never met) gave birth.

 

My father passed away last year at age 97 and led a very fulfilling life.  He literally lived the American dream, arriving with nothing but two suitcases and made it where he put my brother and myself though very prestigious schools and beyond.

 

Anyway, recently, while still going through his paperwork I came across some information that he must have copied from his birth certificate (no where to be found unfortunately).  Here is what I have:

 

Dr. Y. Miura
Miura Maternity Hospital
160-3, 6 Chome, Shimoyamate, Ikjtaku
Kobe, Japan
---> YEAR OF BIRTH: 1925

 

Comments:
1.  Maybe my father misspelled "Chrome" so I'm not sure how accurate some of the other words are.  I'm assuming it should be Chrome?
2.  Google Search also corrected some by "Did you mean....?" suggestions.

 

Even with the various Google corrections and permutations, I've had zero luck, not even close.  Obviously 1925 is before WWII and I don't know if Kobe was affected by the Allied bombings and how much, if any, of it was destroyed.  And if so, did they rebuild to the same streets and layout or did they rebuild differently?

 

I realize that there is a 1% chance that a hospital remains in the same address for nearly 100 years, even if the address is correct and the city did not change.

 

BUT(!), I would be happy if I can just find the intersection and go there to take a few pictures.  However, I and Google can't seem to even locate the intersection.

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.  Of course, if I succeed, it would be so emotional for me that I'm not sure I would be able to handle it.  (I get that from my mother's side of the family.  LOL!)

 

Hopefully all the train stuff and camera stuff (another one of my many (expensive) hobbies!) in Japan will bring me back to some joy.

 

Thank you!

Edited August 10, 2023 by Kingmeow
Typos and formatting mistakes

[marknewton]

1 hour ago, Kingmeow said:

1.  Maybe my father misspelled "Chrome" so I'm no sure how accurate some of the other words are.  I'm assuming it should be Chrome?

No, it's not a misspelling. "Chome" is the Japanese word meaning district.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[railsquid]

Almost 100 years is a long time in terms of Japanese addresses, most places will have undergone multiple stages of adminstrative reform and renaming, and it's possible street layouts may have changed as well due to war or (more likely) through urban remodelling any time between 1945 and the present day.

 

For the given address:

• "Chome" (丁目) is likely correct, that signifies the major numbered subdivision below a named district
• "Ikjtaku" is likely "Ikuta-ku" (生田区), with "ku" being a district/ward within a city

I'm not particularly familiar with Kobe, but digging about, there was an "Ikuta-ku", which existed between 1945 and 1980 (according to Wikipedia: https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/生田区), when it became part of the current Chuo-ku (中央区). There is still an "Ikuta-cho" (生田町, "cho" being a smaller subdivision of a "ku" in this case) which forms a triangle just south of Shin-Kobe station: https://goo.gl/maps/5RoW7jzoUTN6YUBS7.

 

Dr. Y. Miura's "Miura Maternity Hospital" was likely a small private clinic, which may or (more likely) may not have survived until the present. "Miura" would most likely be "三浦", a maternity clinic run by a Dr. Miura would likely be "三浦産婦人科" in current Japanese, for which Google provides no hits for Kobe. There is a "Miura Hospital" (三浦病院) here: https://goo.gl/maps/QAHzL1toZE1LqkFm8 but that's in Hyogu-ku somewhat to the west of the former Ikuta-ku (and "Miura" is not a particularly uncommon name).

 

Hope that narrows things down a bit at least.

Edited August 10, 2023 by railsquid

[Socimi]

I've digged up trough some historical maps - i may have made some progress, but haven't found any definitive answer.

 

 

Ikuta-Ku roughly ran from what is today's Hyogo Prefectural No.30 Road (under wich the Kobe Municipal Subway Seishin-Yamate Line runs for it's stretch between Sannomiya and Shin-Kobe) in the east to today's Arima-Kaido Road near Kobe and Kosoku-Kobe Stations, assuming the border wasn't modified after the 1980 merger).

The ward is named after the Ikuta Shrine (wich still stands to this day, being one of Japan's oldest), wich in turn was named after the Ikuta River, wich however was not located within Ikuta ward itself, but rather Fukae ward, the other ward Ikuta was merged with in 1980.

 

Taking a look at this superb antique map archive (well worth the visit, even just as a peek), i've dug up two maps of Kobe (both with marked "Chome"s), one from 1926 (on wich i couldn't manage to orient myself) and a slightly more detailed and clearer one from 1930, wich i used for the diagram above.

Being a pre-war map, Kanjis are written Right-to-Left, so 6-Chome (Rokuchome) goes from "六丁目" to "目丁六" - there are three such markings west of the Shrine and Sannomiya Station, these could be either three markings for the same area or three "Rokuchome"s of three different wards that happen to meet all there in that spot. I'd say the former is the most likely (or atleast i hope it is!), so we might now have a rough geographical area.

 

Then there's "Shimoyamate", wich i found out refers to the old Shimoyamate street, what is now, according Google Maps, Ikuta-Shinmichi, a street wich runs from immediately south of the Ikuta Shrine to the nice Meiji-Era (built 1902) former Hyogo Prefecture Office (since 1985 converted into a mueseum), located across the street from the current prefectural headquarters - coincidentally, the Kobe Municipal Subway Seishin-Yamate Line runs beneath this street as well, with a stop (Kencho-mae) in-between the two prefectural offices.

 

Now the troubles begin, because the "Rokuchome" (or any other "Chome" in any other Japanese city) is rather fuzzy as an area definition, and unfortunately finding an exact adress from 100 ago is nearly impossible by just looking at historical map, the issue being that Japanese streets (contrary to western practice) are mostly unnamed, with only a few major arteries having a "proper name" - some only even use the prefectural or national road number. (also, building address numbers on a street are not assigned by position, but by construction date).

 

One weak point of this whole research is that it doesn't take count of administrative changes before 1980. This however doesn't seem to be an issue: assuming that Ikuta ward shared the same "administrative history" with the neighbouring Fukai Ward, both were created in the late 1800s, were made "official" in 1931 and were merged in 1980 (in the context of a larger administrative reform within Kobe) to form the curent Chuo ward.

 

The resulting area, altough rather big (circa two square kilometers), seems to be relatively correct, atleast i hope.

 

 

Unfortunately, as Railsquid mentioned, finding the building that housed that clinic will be nearly impossible, as it's extremely unlikely it survived to this day.

 

Being a small clinic in 1925, it almost certainly was a "Machiya"-type house, a traditional Japanese house made of wood, tatami and tiled roof.

Kobe was (and still is) a very industry-focused City, with one of the largest seaports in Japan and large steelworks and manufacturing complexes (such as Hitachi), making it a strategically important target, and as such, was heavily bombed during the second world war, both with conventional explosives as well as firebombs.

If it miraculously survived the second world war, it almost surely ended up being demolished and replaced by modern concrete buildings in the "economic mircale" years; no way a Machiya in such a central location made it past the 1970s, and even if it hypotetically did, it was likely razed by the 1995 Great Hanshin Earthquake, wich leveled much of Kobe. Even considering the remote, but still plausible option that the building was a brick, or even a cement one, the above discourse still stands: if it wasn't bombed during the second world war or demolished in the 1970s, the 1995 Earthquake took care of it - that area was rather hard-hit (not as bad as other areas, but damages were still high) according to the GIS data i got off from Kobe City's website.

 

I've taken a good look with Google StreetWiew around the area, and most of the buildings there appear rather new (the oldest are likely to be "only" 20 to 30 years old), so i'd say that even the replacement building (or even the replacement of the replacement) was at some point torn down and replaced itself.

Still, i'd recommend doing a stroll around the area, it's a tranquil backstreets-type Japanese neighbourhood. You can get there pretty easily, it's just a 10 minute walk from the afromentioned Kencho-Mae station.

 

Finally, one option well worth a try could be to ask directly Kobe City Hall - they do have their own antique map archive  (as well as an OpenData page, in particular for GIS stuff).  I'm sure someone will be happy to help you find the precise "current" adress.

 

Unfortunately the don't seem to have an e-mail on their website (https://www.city.kobe.lg.jp/), ultima ratio worst-case-scenario you can do it the old-fashioned way and write them a letter - their adress is 〒650-8570神戸市中央区加納町6-5-1 (or 6-5-1 Kano-cho, Chuo-ku, Kobe 650-8570 in English).

 

Still, any further documentation might be useful, let us know if you find some more "clues"!

 

Edited August 10, 2023 by Socimi

[kuro68000]

19 hours ago, railsquid said:

There is a "Miura Hospital" (三浦病院) here: https://goo.gl/maps/QAHzL1toZE1LqkFm8 but that's in Hyogu-ku somewhat to the west of the former Ikuta-ku (and "Miura" is not a particularly uncommon name).

 

I wonder if there is any relation. The owner of that hospital is Ken Miura 三浦健, and from the blurb on their website he seems to have been practicing since the 1960s when he studied in the US for a while. They have a contact form you could use to ask them I guess.

[Kingmeow]

Thank you everyone for the information that you have provided so far.  Everyone of your posts have been helpful in getting me more educated and even closer to what I was hoping for.

 

@railsquid Great education as I'm not well versed in Japanology.  I'll be printing this entire thread (and some of the associated links) and taking it with me to Japan.

 

@Socimi That is INCREDIBLE on the research you have done for me.  As I read it, it was like reading a novel, with each sentence building more suspense!  The maps you dug up, the logic you were using, and some of the assumptions are just fabulous!  If I can't be at the EXECT address, being in the neighborhood would more than satisfy my goal.  I might even drop into City Hall as ask their staff.  Who knows what I might get.  There's nothing to lose.

 

I will be (re)reading your posts and the associated links more in depth at a later time.  I feel like Indiana Jones looking for the spot!  🤠

 

@mojo Great idea!  I might drop them an inquiry to see if there is any relations.  Again nothing to lose.

 

 

Again, I am so appreciative in everyone's help with this.  If I do find the spot, add to it the camera and model train stores, plus the food, culture and sensory overload, it will be a trip of a lifetime!!!!!!

[railsquid]

Coincidentally this popped up on another site: https://ktgis.net/kjmapw/kjmapw.html

 

Displays maps from various eras side-by-side with a modern map. This is Kobe in the 1920s: https://ktgis.net/kjmapw/kjmapw.html?lat=34.696214&lng=135.195673&zoom=16&dataset=keihansin&age=2&screen=2&scr1tile=k_cj4&scr2tile=k_cj4&scr3tile=k_cj4&scr4tile=k_cj4&mapOpacity=10&overGSItile=no&altitudeOpacity=2

 

[Kingmeow]

Hello everyone!  I am back from my trip.  What an amazing, glorious, unbelievable, sensory overloaded (in a good way), mental and physical experience!  I have never been so stimulated for the 15 days we were there.  Every waking minute was a joy to be alive!  Tokyo, Kyoto, Hiroshima and Osaka all had their uniqueness.  The Peace Museum in Hiroshima was an eye opener and it took me awhile to get back to reality after leaving the museum.  Every politician, heads of state and general need to visit this place.  That's all I'm going to say as I don't want to turn this into a political discussion.

 

The biggest "FAIL" during the trip was we ran out of time to visit Kobe and thus I failed to locate the spot where my father was born.  You know how it is when traveling but now that I understand what Japan is about, how could you not run out of time?  There's excitement and adventure around every corner!

 

When the Shinkansen stopped briefly at Kobe, I stood at the doors of the train just staring at the sign and anything I could see outside the station.  Despite the fact that I did not get off the train I was overwhelmed with emotions.  Flying 14 hours from the US, just passing by on a train where some almost 100 years ago my father came into the world was enough to put a tear or two in my eyes.  It was a very poignant moment.

 

Given our experience with this trip (my first but my wife's third) we will definitely be back and not only will we visit Kobe, we will stay a few nights, thus forcing us to be there!  So for those of you above who have helped me out greatly, all is not lost and your efforts are not wasted.  I have all the information in a folder and will keep it until we go again.

 

As for the successes, well, that's everything!  😁 The hotels, the cleanliness, the food, the inexpensiveness (due to the strong dollar), the great people, the sense of order everywhere, etc. made this trip float to the top of my all time greatest, even beating out the Great Pyramids and the Valley of the Kings.

 

And the number one success?  The model train and camera shops! 🤪 O-M-G!!!!  Hobby stores pretty much don't exist anymore in the US but in Japan, my goodness!  Every city has more than one and I'm not talking about a store with a few items!  They are like super markets for N-scale!!!!  The camera stores were like photography museums, from the present day to equipment made before I was born, all out in the open.  And the phenomenal prices......!

 

Too bad we only had carry on luggage and they barely had any spare room.  I ended up with a Tomix set, a Kato set and a lens for my camera.  Next time I'm bringing checked luggage for my clothes and unimportant stuff.  The good stuff goes in the carry on!  😊

 

Again, I want to thank everyone for their help.  I assure you it will not be wasted!

 

 

[cteno4]

Glad the trip was such a joy for you! All my trips to japan have been the same, never enough time to do everything you wanted to do.

 

I totally agree the peace museum and park is a must do for anyone that can. Those truths like many other atrocities humans have inflicted on each other are not to be avoided, ignored, and forgotten, but to be looked at to learn what we have to do to avoid them and we survive as species. I’ve spoken to many people who say they avoid stuff like this while traveling as it’s a bummer. But that’s one of the best benefits of actually traveling to places is to really feel them and life is not all just happy stuff, you need to whole mix in order to really find the full flavor.

 

hope you get back here to find your dad’s birth spot.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[Kamome]

I have lived in Japan for the past 6 years and still run out of time to do everything I want to do. Glad you had a great time @Kingmeow and subsequent trips will open up new things as the first visit is always sensory overload (in a good way)

 

I too love the peace museum. It’s important that everyone understands what atrocities we as humans are capable of and its message isn’t finger pointing but asking that humanity never repeats these dark days of history. 

[Kingmeow]

Just wanted to say that we are back ON!!!!  I knew one day I would be back and specifically make time to continue this journey.  I just didn't think it would be this soon since we were just there last September.  (Better to go before the Yen gains strength even more!  😎)

 

We have tickets for a three week trip to Japan in October (if you have been following the other thread about finding cheap plane tickets) and this time we will be staying for three nights in Kobe, giving us plenty of time to inquire and search.  AND, just by dumb coincidence, my brother will be there with his family.  He will do a detour for one night to help me.  Offspring wise it's just him and I.  We told mom this and she was speechless!   So now we will have more people doing the investigating and searching for out father's birth place.

 

We will hit up Kobe City Museum and Kobe City Hall just to inquire and see if they can be of assistance, for one, how to read that address.  It's possible that my father, who was not Japanese, wrote it wrong (order wise, spelling, etc.).

 

Since the last post by Kamome, I have been reading what @Socimi wrote in his excellent research, on and off.  But once we got our tickets, I went at it full force.  I *think* we know where the location is, provided that we make one assumption.  And that is my father's "160-3" means Building 3 since 6 Chome Shimoyamate is pretty obvious.  We have no idea what the 160 means.

 

6 Chome, Shimoyamate can be easily find on today's map.  There is a Building 3 and that is the Hyorogodo Library, almost the center point of what Socimi circled.

 

 

But(!), there is another Building 3 in the vicinity to the left of the Library.  But that one is 6 Chome-3 Nakayamete so that can't be right.

 

 

With the assumption that the "3" in "160-3" is the building number (I doubt there is a Building 160), then the location is the Library!  Of course, if the Museum or City Hall tells me it's not Building 3 in the "160-3" then we are back to square one but I think we are in the general area regardless.  Like I said earlier, given how much has changed, a "somewhere here" would be an acceptable answer if it comes to that.  Traveling half way around the world to be "somewhere here" is pretty darn good!

 

My fingers are crossed!  I am open to any other info or pondering until we leave.  🙂

 

I will post when we get back in November. 

Edited August 22 by Kingmeow

[kuro68000]

Great detective work! Looking around that area there is a nursing college and Christian church, so maybe there was a hospital there once. Japan being the way it is, buildings still standing from the 1940s are fairly rare, but the area seems to have some connection to both hospitals and foreigners.

 

Just behind the library there is another link to America: https://www.town.harima.lg.jp/kyodoshiryokan/kanko/rekishi/shinbunnochichi/index.html

 

Absolutely fascinating I wish you luck!

[Yugamu Tsuki]

Keep us posted. One thing I have learned from Google maps is the addresses always seem to be written in a different order from one location to the next.

[MeTheSwede]

Good luck on your search!

A lot will probably depend on if you happen to run into a person who both enjoys some detective work and knows where to access relevant information.

 

 

I remember spending some time with Google Maps when you made your post a year ago, but then Sochimi posted everything I had figured out and more.

 

Anyway at a later date I assembled the larger of the houses in this Tomytec house sets: https://1999.co.jp/eng/10605493

As one of the signage options for that building is a clinic, at the time of assembly I was thinking "this is the kind of building where a person's dad could have been born".

 

[Junech]

You could add their archive to that list: website

 

22 hours ago, Kingmeow said:

Kobe City Museum and Kobe City Hal

 

[Kingmeow]

2 hours ago, MeTheSwede said:

Anyway at a later date I assembled the larger of the houses in this Tomytec house sets: https://1999.co.jp/eng/10605493

As one of the signage options for that building is a clinic, at the time of assembly I was thinking "this is the kind of building where a person's dad could have been born".

 

Hmmm...I may have to get a kit like that when we are there.  A Japanese themed T-Trak module (double) has always been in the back of my mind!

[Kingmeow]

56 minutes ago, Junech said:

You could add their archive to that list: website

 

WOW!  That's a lot of information to digest.  Initial glance is overwhelming and I don't know where to begin.  I'll have to sit down one day and explore the links.  Thanks!

[Kamome]

@KingmeowAddresses can be a little confusing as lots of hyphens and numbers.

 

In the case of 160, it may very well have been the building number. Perhaps a former residential area that has been redeveloped? 

 

Hope I’m not teaching people to suck eggs here but maybe to help understand the address breakdown. As I’m sure many members know already, they read backwards which actually makes a lot of sense as you gradually pinpoint the location. 

 

ken 県　prefecture

shi 市　city

ku 区　ward

machi 町　town

 

Then you get the series of numbers.

 

10-12-160

 

district number - block number - property or building number.

 

Districts and blocks are rather small but when you factor in how close property is built next to each other, it kind of makes sense to have further clarification on where said building is.  

 

Also if it’s an apartment building or has multiple businesses, you may get the building name next, then the apartment number.

 

Example 1-12-54 JNS building 201

 

201 will most likely be apartment 1, 2F rather the 201st apartment.

 

So here’s Hobby Centre Kato's address as an example. 

 

〒161-0031 Postal code
東京都 Tokyo-to (*prefecture)

新宿区 Shinjuku ku (ward) 

西落合 Nishi Ochiai (town or settlement)

1-24-10 District 1, Block 24, building number 10

 

Hope that helps.

 

*A number of prefectures don’t use the “ken” suffix.

 

北海道 Hokkaido (larger territory)

東京都　Tokyo-to (capital)

大阪府　Osaka-fu (urban prefecture)

京都府　Kyoto-fu (urban prefecture)

 

 

Edited August 23 by Kamome

[Kingmeow]

Thanks for the info Kamome.  My brother, who will be in on the search when we get there, recently sent me these links that deciphers Japanese addresses.  Pretty confusing!  🙂  Either way, we're going to seek local help when we get there.

 

https://www.myjapan.careers/blog-posts/how-to-read-and-write-a-japanese-address

 

https://resources.realestate.co.jp/living/how-to-read-a-japanese-address/

[Tony Galiani]

I believe you are heading out next week.  Good Luck with your visit to Kobe!

 

BTW - when are you going to be in Tokyo.

 

Tony

[Kingmeow]

That's correct @Tony Galiani  Since my last post on this thread my brother has helped quite a bit and we have screen captured a lot of maps and did additional research on the internet.  Fingers crossed but we are quite positive we will be able to find the location.  Also, we're going to stick our heads into the Kobe City Museum and Kobe City Hall to see if they can pinpoint it even more.

 

We will be in Tokyo Nov. 1-5 with most likely a side trip to Yokohama.  My train shops list is raring to go!  😃

Edited October 8 by Kingmeow

[Tony Galiani]

Hmmm, looks like we will be there about the same time.  Please send me your store list so I can beat you to them!

 

Tony

 

(Just kidding - I expect there is enough there for both of us!)

[Kingmeow]

BTW, I'll see you at Tokyo Station?  🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[Tony Galiani]

Sure.  We are staying close by on the Yaesu side.  Arriving on the 2nd, leaving on the 6th.

[Kingmeow]

Just now, Tony Galiani said:

Hmmm, looks like we will be there about the same time.  Please send me your store list so I can beat you to them!

 

Tony

 

(Just kidding - I expect there is enough there for both of us!)

 

I may be "fully loaded" by then.  😎  Since (I think) Tokyo doesn't have a Super Kids Land, I plan to stock up two stops before Tokyo, in Nagoya.  I'll be looking at the shops in Kobe too after locating where my father was born.  I do plan to hit Models Imon Shibuya at a minimum as I've heard a lot about them and want to check them out.  Probably no large purchases and just nick nacks and parts if they have them as I've heard they sell at MSRP.