Two 223-2000 motor cars running at different speeds

[CanderousGalm]

I had some time today for running a new train that arrived the other day, and I had noticed that compared to a train that I bought in March the newer one runs much faster on the same loop even if the newer one has more cars than the older one (10 vs 5). So I tried cleaning the track with some mineral spirits (recommended from a youtube video) and the newer train still runs quicker.

 

I'm wondering what others use to clean their layouts and trains. I was using a cloth and mineral spirits and polishing the trach over a couple of times. Previously this did the trick and go the trains running, but now not so much. I'm thinking that this might have to do with the wheels being dirty as well. So after looking through the forum I see some users use Q-tips or paper towels on track for rolling stock. I'm finding that even after cleaning the power cars the older train still runs slower than the newer one. 

 

I guess it boils down to how do you tell if your tracks and wheels are clean?

The cloth I'm using doesn't dirty up after I polish the track. Does that mean I'm not polishing enough?

[cteno4]

Galm,

 

if you don’t get black stuff on your cleaning cloth the track and wheels are probably clean. There are other places where you can still have gunk like in the wheel pickups and also on the truck to chassis pickups. To see if these are dirty you need to pull off the trucks and pull apart the trucks to examine them and potentially clean them.

 

other issues which could cause a train to run slower is also lubrication issues. Lubrication can move out of the gears with time and greases can dry up. Also bits of dust and schmutz can get in there with the oil and gum up badly. This just needs careful cleaning.

 

some motors just run faster than others as well.

 

on track cleaning fluids read this article. It’s the only real science I’ve ever seen in the forever track cleaning debate. It makes sense from my science background and decades of model railroading experience. I now use low dielectric contact cleaners exclusively and black gunk is gone and has not reappeared!

 

https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/mrhpub.com/2019-05-may/online/index.html?page=9

 

be careful with the mineral spirits as it can attack some plastics and strip paint.

 

more in the track cleaning topic here

 

 

cheers

 

jeff

[CanderousGalm]

Thanks, I'll take a look at it further. It's weird though since they're both the same train, 223-2000s and the same company, Tomix. 

[CanderousGalm]

It might be dust since I don't run trains often.

 

However looking at it, it does seem clear, but I am no means an expert. I'm pretty new to the hobby. 

Looking at the manufacturer's website, both the Jr 233s were released in nov of 22. The "Older" one I have I picked up in late March and the newer one arrived two days ago.

I did do the paper towel method on the non-powered cars but I was worried about doing them on the powered ones and locos due to the traction tyres. I was just using a Q-tip with some mineral sprits and just powering the wheels a little before picking up the car and cleaning with a Q-tip. 

For the power wires, do you mean I could use the wires from the controller that connect to the tracks directly on the power car?

On the topic of those makeup brushes I'll order some of each and then maybe get a tomix cleaning car as well to help with vacuuming the harder to reach areas. 

 

[cteno4]

Hmm it may be lubrication as those gears look pretty dry. Doing a tiny bit of lubrication on the truck gears and running a while and repeat if necessary may help. Sometimes a drop of light weight bearing oil on the motor bearings can also get things running faster. But lubricate really sparingly with like a bit on the end of a toothpick as too much and you have a mess and it will suck up dust. 
 

Don’t see an obvious big wad around the axles. 
 

the wipe contacts are inside the truck/bogie and wipe against the inside of the wheel and then also have a pickup on the top of the truck that wipes onto the contact strips in the chassis. These are places you can also get some oxidation or muck buildup over time, but usually keep themselves pretty clean with the rubbing of the pickups to the other surfaces.

 

I would try the lubrication first to the truck gears and see what happens. Sometimes takes 5 minutes of running for lubrication kick in.

 

sometimes you get a train that just seems to have been missed at the factory getting lubed.

 

any difference in running sound between the two motor cars?

 

how long has each train been run. I usually find the first 10-15 minutes running  a new train can be a little rough, then it sort of breaks in and runs better. Not always true.

 

jeff

 

Moderator Note: broke this back off onto its own thread for specific fix.

[katoftw]

It's one of those things dealing with 2 motor car sets. Hence I avoid Tomix for certain models.

 

Anyways. I haven't read all the other posts. But track isn't the first place to look. The motor cars are.

 

Not much you can do other than investigate why they are running at different speeds. Generally a mech or elec issue. Or mixture of both.

 

Dirty elecs

Gear and shaft grease

Etc

[CanderousGalm]

The newer one sounds a bit louder and lower in pitch than the older one.

The new one maybe has 10-15 min on it while the new one has probably less than an hour.

 

 

This is what the newer one looks like.

 

I also want to say that for the older 233, it still ran better out of the box when I first ran it than the previous train I had. Also a tomix, but a 223. That one was bought in Nov.

So 223 in Nov, 233 in March and then another 233 just now in June.

 

For lubricants would it just be whatever is at a model railroad store or does it not really matter?

[CanderousGalm]

50 minutes ago, katoftw said:

It's one of those things dealing with 2 motor car sets. Hence I avoid Tomix for certain models.

 

 

By two motor car sets, do you mean one single train that has two motor cars?

Sorry I'm not familiar with terms. I am pretty new to the hobby. I was trying to replicate the 15-car set for the Tokyo-Ueno line. So if I put all 15 cars together would that be two motor car set?

[cteno4]

Yes by two motor cars he means your 15 car train would have 2 motor cars in it. Have you tried to run the two sets all together with the two motor cars? Sometimes the speed difference doesn’t matter put the faster one in front of the slower one. I’d try them in the center area of the train.

 

simplest thing to try first is a little lubrication to the slow one. Some labelles 102 is good stuff. You can find it at most hobby shops as used on rc cars as well.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Labelle-Gear-Multi-Purpose-Medium-Viscosity/dp/B00AARI7P8/ref=asc_df_B00AARI7P8?tag=bngsmtphsnus-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=80608063550959&hvnetw=s&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4584207590460247&psc=1

 

cheers

 

jeff

[CanderousGalm]

I tried to connect them together but the on the curves, the two trains split apart. I think it's because the curves are too sharp, as when they're fine on the straights.

 

Also thanks for the link for the lube

[Kamome]

I agree with @cteno4 recommendations for light lubrication. Motors just sometimes don’t match when you put multiples in a train consist. I can’t speak for Tomix as I don’t have any of their trains with twin motors. Kato very often have a unit with traction tyres and one without so one can slip and freewheel if necessary. Not an ideal solution but does iron out some of the issue. 

 

When you refer to older and newer trains, was this a sizeable gap? Kato tend to change the product number if a train model gets an update, new style motor, LED lights instead of bulb, although I’m not sure if Tomix do the same. These things can obviously affect the draw on the output voltage on the rails but sometimes it can just come down to the motor. I have 2 Kato EF30, bought about 5 years apart, same product number but the motors run at very different speeds, you’d think they were geared differently, so impossible to double head them. 

Edited June 25, 2023 by Kamome

[CanderousGalm]

They were both released in 2022 and both were bought this year, 3 months apart.