Another Kato FL12 decoder problem

[bc6]

I'm installing my EM13 and my FL12 decoders in my E235 Yamanote 11 car set and I'm running into problems and could use some help.

So my EM13 install went well considering at first I installed the decoder upside down and fixed it the motor unit runs perfectly with my NCE Power Cab system.

Now I have red leds on both end cars, Has anyone else experienced this and been able to fix it. 

I figured out through reading a post on JNS is that you don't push the decoder all the way in the slot (pics attached of proper placement of decoder)

 

Troubleshooting steps I've taken to fix LED issues

• Make sure the hatch is closed. 
• I've tried to reorient the decoder but the leds are still red.
• Taking a FL12 out of a end car and seeing how it operates without a decoder (I have red and white lights)
• Read through the JNS DCC section.
• I moved onto installing the FL12 in my end cars and nada nothing,
• I did install the FL12s upside down and shorted out the PCP but it works fine now. (maybe this is where I messed up possibly damaging the decoders)
• Programming the head motor and end cars with 2026 and still no lights. 
• I put the end car on the track and had a led light up for a second. 
• Resetting the throttle
• Resetting the decoders
• Running the motor car with the head and end car (no lights either)

 

 

Edited April 16, 2023 by bc6

[inobu]

Its a programming issue. Remember one of the decoders is facing backwards.

Function setting in the decoder where it sets the direction.

 

Inobu

[bc6]

3 hours ago, inobu said:

Its a programming issue. Remember one of the decoders is facing backwards.

Function setting in the decoder where it sets the direction.

 

Inobu

• What CV do I need to program.
• Below is a pic of how the decoders are currently setup.
• I'm not sure if I mentioned it but the leds are constantly on. 

 

[inobu]

Its in CV 29 but here the link that goes through everything.

 

http://www.sumidacrossing.org/ModelTrains/ModelTrainDCC/KatoDCCDecoders/

 

CV29 Values

6 = 28/128 speed steps, Analog Conversion, Forward direction, 2 digit address
7 = 28/128 speed steps, Analog Conversion, Reverse direction, 2 digit address
38 = 28/128 speed steps, Analog Conversion, Forward direction, 4 digit address
39 = 28/128 speed steps, Analog Conversion, Reverse direction, 4 digit address

 

The NCE Power Cab has a Headlight button as well as the Direction key and F0 Key.

Each has it control of the lighting. There might be a difference in what the Power cab does I think.

 

 

 

 

In any case your next step is to get a USB interface and get JMRI going. It will give

you a better visual on the programming via a PC.

 

Inobu

 

 

 

 

[bc6]

40 minutes ago, inobu said:

Its in CV 29 but here the link that goes through everything.

 

http://www.sumidacrossing.org/ModelTrains/ModelTrainDCC/KatoDCCDecoders/

 

CV29 Values

6 = 28/128 speed steps, Analog Conversion, Forward direction, 2 digit address
7 = 28/128 speed steps, Analog Conversion, Reverse direction, 2 digit address
38 = 28/128 speed steps, Analog Conversion, Forward direction, 4 digit address
39 = 28/128 speed steps, Analog Conversion, Reverse direction, 4 digit address

 

The NCE Power Cab has a Headlight button as well as the Direction key and F0 Key.

Each has it control of the lighting. There might be a difference in what the Power cab does I think.

 

 

 

 

In any case your next step is to get a USB interface and get JMRI going. It will give

you a better visual on the programming via a PC.

 

Inobu

 

 

 

 

Thanks Inobu I had a feeling that I would need to get a usb interface lol thanks for the advice. 

[Wolf]

21 hours ago, bc6 said:

I've tried to reorient the decoder but the leds are still red.

 

Odd, this always fixed it for me, just turning the decoder around and as such changing the + and - output from the decoder to the LED board. Can someone explain to me why in this case it didnt work?

 

Can you turn the headlights (taillights in your case) off via dcc? Do they switch to white if you run backwards?

 

Added picture of current install on mine. Yours seem to stick out a bit no?

 

Edited April 17, 2023 by Wolf

[inobu]

2 hours ago, bc6 said:

Thanks Inobu I had a feeling that I would need to get a usb interface lol thanks for the advice. 

I think you will enjoy that aspect of DCC.  You will be able to use your old cell phones as throttles as well.

 

Inobu

[bc6]

2 hours ago, Wolf said:

 

Odd, this always fixed it for me, just turning the decoder around and as such changing the + and - output from the decoder to the LED board. Can someone explain to me why in this case it didnt work?

 

Can you turn the headlights (taillights in your case) off via dcc? Do they switch to white if you run backwards?

 

Added picture of current install on mine. Yours seem to stick out a bit no?

 

Thanks for the pics Wolf I will mess around with the placement of the decoders.

The lights are constantly on I can't turn them off.

The way the decoders are placed are the only way they work.

If I push the decoders all the way in they don't stay on and I only get a flicker of activity when the cars are first place on the track.

I really do appreciate the pictures they mean a lot. 

[bc6]

33 minutes ago, inobu said:

I think you will enjoy that aspect of DCC.  You will be able to use your old cell phones as throttles as well.

 

Inobu

Using a tablet for train operations will be nice and I can get to use JMRI. 

[Wolf]

4 minutes ago, bc6 said:

The lights are constantly on I can't turn them off.

 

I would say there is a fault then, at least that basic function should work, regardless align or if it lights red or white.

 

Let us know how you proceeded.

[bc6]

I'm thinking the same thing I have a email that I sent to Kato waiting for a response from them. 

Edited April 17, 2023 by disturbman
unnecessary quote, answering previous message

[chadbag]

15 hours ago, inobu said:

In any case your next step is to get a USB interface and get JMRI going. It will give

you a better visual on the programming via a PC.

 

When I was using an NCE power cab, I was never able to get JMRI with the NCE usb interface working.  I was Mac based and it was like 5 years ago.  I switched to DR5000 but never did try and get JMRI running again.  I will eventually.  More interested, personally, in my (slow going) project to make my own SW...

 

But I did try and get JMRI running with the NCE on a Mac 5 years ago and struck out.  JMRI mail list was not able to pinpoint the problem and I soon switched to the new command station and didn't care any more.

[inobu]

46 minutes ago, chadbag said:

 

When I was using an NCE power cab, I was never able to get JMRI with the NCE usb interface working.  I was Mac based and it was like 5 years ago.  I switched to DR5000 but never did try and get JMRI running again.  I will eventually.  More interested, personally, in my (slow going) project to make my own SW...

 

But I did try and get JMRI running with the NCE on a Mac 5 years ago and struck out.  JMRI mail list was not able to pinpoint the problem and I soon switched to the new command station and didn't care any more.

It works for sure on Windows but you have to make sure that the Firmware is up to date. In some cases you can lock the USB

cab id out. Its one of those situation where it works no problem or its a nightmare.

 

I think we talked about it (Using the Power Cab as a Demo) it has its plus factor.

 

Inobu

[chadbag]

10 minutes ago, inobu said:

I think we talked about it (Using the Power Cab as a Demo) it has its plus factor.

 

I didn't get rid of it -- still have it.  Easy way to set up a simple demo track or something, as you said.

[bc6]

I just got off the phone with Kato and spoke to a nice guy who gave me some great troubleshooting advice that I'm going to try hopefully tonite. 👍 

[cteno4]

Please share when you have time! Nice they answered you. Katousa I assume.

 

jeff

[bc6]

Yup Kato USA, Hey even called me back to give me more advice lol. 😃 

[cteno4]

Wow that’s great to hear. Katousa kind of ebbs and flows with how interactive they are.

 

jeff

[bc6]

Well its official I suck at installing fl12 decoders as I got magic smoke to come out of it. I'm going to look for a company that will install a fl12 for me. I think I'll send the other one to Kato if they allow me to do so.

[Wolf]

So sorry to hear. Dont let it get to you, I got my fair share of FL12s burned by sticking them in too less/too much and having them hit contact where they should not.

 

Hope you find a company and after seeing one or two installed in person you can do it again too!

[bc6]

Thanks Wolf I had such high hopes to get it working properly but oh well I tried right lol. I'm glad I went through it for the experience of doing it. Now I'm going to let the professionals figure it out.

 

Hopefully it won't be too difficult to find a reputable company that can install a decoder for me. I'm going to start with Kato and go forward. 

[cteno4]

Dcc usually requires some blue/magic smoke “oh crap!”s

 

jeff

[bc6]

Lol I'm usually good with electronics but not this time I'm going to let someone else deal with this headache.