Is there a difference between Tomix, Kato and Micro Ace?

[bc6]

I've been looking at getting a set of E235-500 Yamanote series cars and really don't see the difference if there are any. Am I missing something like details, quality etc.

I have a Tomix Dr. Yellow and I love it there is nothing wrong with it that I can tell. I would have gotten a Kato Dr. Yellow but couldn't find one to buy.

The only difference that I can tell is that GreenMax, Tomix and MicroAce produce more obscure models than Kato does.

Edited April 15, 2023 by bc6

[Wolf]

I cant speak for the Yamanote in particular, but surely each manufacturer has its perks. Tomix for example has powered couplers on Shinkansen, Kato on the other hand has the tilting mechanic. Kato also has a few models that are dcc friendly, something the other manufacturers ignore absolutely.

 

Microace and Greenmax from what I have seen have very good quality and top notch printing, plus they also tend to the more niche trains. On the other hand these low quantity productions do their toll on the price.

[disturbman]

This has been discussed ad nauseam a bit everywhere on the forum.

There are a ton of small and insignificant differences between each manufacturers. All make good models. Beside the DCC-ready or DCC-friendly features, the main difference between Kato and the others is that Kato is a bit the Japanese Märklin and has a relatively unwarranted cult following 😄

And they are relatively risk averse, meaning they mostly limit themselves to high appeal trains. Whereas Tomix has a more diverse portfolio, and GM and MA focus on niche products.

I think the most interesting difference is that Kato releases a lot of assy parts, which facilitates repairs for non-Japan-based modellers, but it's also a fairly overblown quirk. It's rare that a train requires any repairs.

[bc6]

How are they compatibility wise  meaning running them together say Kato E235 with a Tomix E235? 

[disturbman]

Why do you mean by together? Mixing both in a single consist, or two trains alongside each other?

[bc6]

6 minutes ago, disturbman said:

Why do you mean by together? Mixing both in a single consist, or two trains alongside each other?

As a single consist is that possible do different brands use different couplers?

[disturbman]

I wouldn't mix brands in a single consist, there are enough differences between models for them to be a problem/noticeable. But you can form a two-train formation by mixing different brands. Even more if it's two different trains.

Couplers are a big issue. GM and MA models come with Rapidos. Kato and Tomix trains come with either Rapidos or their own proprietary body-mounted kinematic couplers. Those couplers are not compatible. GM, MA and Popondetta models can be equipped with Tomix body-mounted kinematic couplers. You can equip all trains with Rapidos with Kato bogie-mounted couplers (or GM or Tomix).

[jappomania]

I'm not so expert about "microwaves" (sorry, but commuters are out of my interest) but 235-500 doesn't exist, you talk about 235-0 for Yamanote

my reply to your question is "maybe yes" (rapido coupler dont' change, but I don't put my hand on fire about the 100% matching of green/grey tone), but why?

in case of "copycat" versions (eg E001 Shikishima or Shinkansen 800 - more models than real trains produced), if not stricltly necessary I saw that every train have different car number unit, so if you buy all the complete set from one or another vendor you have not only the real train, but also the right composition for the specific unit, I don't find reason for mixing....

Edited April 15, 2023 by jappomania

[disturbman]

@bc6 if the issue is that you can't find a set by a manufacturer to complete your train, I would suggest to look on the second hand Japanese market. You will find what you are looking for.

[bc6]

22 minutes ago, disturbman said:

I wouldn't mix brands in a single consist, there are enough differences between models for them to be a problem/noticeable. But you can form a two-train formation by mixing different brands. Even more if it's two different trains.

Couplers are a big issue. GM and MA models come with Rapidos. Kato and Tomix trains come with either Rapidos or their own proprietary body-mounted kinematic couplers. Those couplers are not compatible. GM, MA and Popondetta models can be equipped with Tomix body-mounted kinematic couplers. You can equip all trains with Rapidos with Kato bogie-mounted couplers (or GM or Tomix).

Ok this I didnt know I was just curious about their compatibility which they arent compatible it seems thanks for your insights.

[bc6]

14 minutes ago, disturbman said:

@bc6 if the issue is that you can't find a set by a manufacturer to complete your train, I would suggest to look on the second hand Japanese market. You will find what you are looking for.

I was just curious and wanted to know if I should stay away from mixing brands or if it was even possible now I know that it isn't and wont do that.

[jappomania]

....and also, maybe is not the best price, but if you want it new from shop it's appear still available at Hobby Search (Kato 10-1468/69/70), or wait 3 months for the new Tomix release

second hand can be a very good choice like told you @disturbman, but if you find a complete train from a single seller and if you know enough the model, with 3 boxes - base + 2 add-ons - the risk of buying a wrong mix of cars is high, the best is finding the Tomix single box limited edition

[bc6]

29 minutes ago, jappomania said:

....and also, maybe is not the best price, but if you want it new from shop it's appear still available at Hobby Search (Kato 10-1468/69/70), or wait 3 months for the new Tomix release

second hand can be a very good choice like told you @disturbman, but if you find a complete train from a single seller and if you know enough the model, with 3 boxes - base + 2 add-ons - the risk of buying a wrong mix of cars is high, the best is finding the Tomix single box limited edition

Thank you.

[inobu]

It depends on what matters to you. I like precision details in the models. 

Kato has a more refine detail than Tomix.

 

Look at the screen on the fans. Kato is deeper giving more detail.

 

For some they don't see or even care. The general look is enough.

 

 

 

Its all up to you and what you like best.

 

I bought a few Tomix model and they weren't for me so I sold them. I only buy Kato now.

Get one of each and see for yourself that's what I dd.

 

Inobu

 

This is one of the best sites for information/research...http://www.sumidacrossing.org/

 

 

 

Inobu

 

[bc6]

Thank @inobu

Edited April 16, 2023 by disturbman

[Kamome]

3 hours ago, disturbman said:

Kato is a bit the Japanese Märklin and has a relatively unwarranted cult following

I think we can all chip in as to which brands we favour but I wouldn’t call Kato   having a “cult” following. More so a market front runner. Not sure whether @disturbmanhas had a bad experience with Kato or just doesn’t like how popular they are. Here’s my viewpoint  @bc6

 

I tend to buy trains I want from Kato first, then look at other manufacturers if Kato don’t produce that train. From a user experience, I would say Kato are still the best, for me, and cheapest. I like that they use blackened wheels on appropriate sets, have body mounted couplers on models out of the box and they produce update parts for trains that may have had changes made on subsequent productions runs. I’m not into DCC but they are the only ones producing DCC ready models. Despite them being the cheapest, the presentation of the model is still the best IMO.  All products I have bought from Kato have run flawlessly although I have occasionally had a slightly growly motor. I also like the fact they support railway modelling through their community apps and events, although Japan only.

Their soft book cases are nice and the simple push fastening seem hardier than the plastic clips used on Microace and Tomix equivalents. 

 

Kato don’t always get it right, sometimes other manufacturers add better level of details, examples being the older Koki 104s being the wrong colour or the Tomix Mizukaze having better exterior details. Their description of DCC friendly can sometimes be a little ominous, but as a non DCC user, this is not an issue for me. 

 

Tomix also make great models but I find the need to have to cut off bogie mounted couplers and purchase separately sold and more realistic looking body mounted ones, both adds to the cost and reduces the positive customer experience of a brand new model. I have had a couple of locos from Tomix that didn’t run that great, had flickering headlights while running in reverse, and the low cost wagons are fitted with very shiny silver wheels. On Kato’s they’re blackened. Shinkansen’s have all wheel pickup along the whole train thanks to power transfer couplers. The Tomix sets I have are lovely models, very well produced but again design choices are sometimes questionable such as including dry rub transfers when things could’ve been better tampo-printed. 

 

Microace make a lot more unique trains and I probably wouldn’t consider buying the MA version if Kato or Tomix also make it. All of the MA stock I have runs beautifully although it has a bit of a reputation here in Japan that it may break easily. That’s not been my experience and certain models are produced very well. Some of the body shells, interiors or paint schemes can feel a little lower quality compared to Kato and Tomix, more along the lines of a Tomytec train model but this hasn’t been the case with more recent releases. 

 

Greenmax is the other alternative choice of manufacturer if you wish to collect non JR railway companies. I don’t own any Greenmax products so couldn’t offer my view on quality. I would say the price point puts me off a little. ¥15,000 for a 2 car set when a Kato option is ¥7000. Definitely if you want niche trains produced by no other, then GM will be a main option with MA. All models

look very nice and if you thinking of creating a fleet of Meitetsu, Hankyu, Odakyu etc.. you’ll probably be investing in some GM trains. 

 

Anyway, you pay your money, you take your choice and sometimes you’ll be pleasantly surprised or slightly disappointed with each manufacturer’s decisions. 

[Guest]

I tend to buy Tomix first, then look to KATO for the ones Tomix doesn’t make (Sunrise Express, E353, etc).  I just started with Tomix as they had the set I wanted on a trip to Japan, and haven’t looked back. But nothing against KATO trains themselves, found them to be equal.  But aside from the trains themselves, I prefer Tomix electrics better (switches, controllers, wiring, connectors, etc).  Kato connectors and wires are so bulky.  Also, I dislike the KATO bookcases and like the “fat axels” on their bogeys. While those aren’t visible, they just seem way out of place. 

[bc6]

@Kamome this is a well written write up and observation of the of the N scale manufactures and their quirks and idiosyncrasies and really appreciate your views.

Edited April 16, 2023 by disturbman

[disturbman]

6 hours ago, Kamome said:

I think we can all chip in as to which brands we favour but I wouldn’t call Kato   having a “cult” following. More so a market front runner. Not sure whether @disturbmanhas had a bad experience with Kato or just doesn’t like how popular they are. Here’s my viewpoint  @bc6

I was being provocative, but I do think Kato is held as the better manufacturer for no real reasons beside exposure/fanboyism. All the manufacturers have their positives and negatives; and some of the compromises Kato take irks me. Like how they cheaped out on their two-axle freight wagons by not putting springs in the coupler assembly. 

Personally, I do not like their cases, I find some of their details unnecessary bulky (notably antenas), have had a few buzzing motors, which is a known "issue" with Tomix pmw powerpacks, and had issues with their loco user-installed parts. For these reasons, I tend to prefer models by Tomix/MA/GM/Popondetta.

 

6 hours ago, Kamome said:

Microace make a lot more unique trains and I probably wouldn’t consider buying the MA version if Kato or Tomix also make it. All of the MA stock I have runs beautifully although it has a bit of a reputation here in Japan that it may break easily.

This reputation, I think, is a remnant of experiences with their most ancient models, from the early 2000s, and perhaps the black summer of 2010 with its many zinc pest infections. Having own many, many, many MA trains, I can say it's not warranted.

 

6 hours ago, Kamome said:

Some of the body shells, interiors or paint schemes can feel a little lower quality compared to Kato and Tomix, more along the lines of a Tomytec train model but this hasn’t been the case with more recent releases. 

That has never been the case. I think you are confusing with GM. Which makes wonderful trains but the quality of some of their shells is lower, more plasticy (light bleed on a handful of models), their interiors are extremely bare and kind of sad, and their paint schemes are not as good as Kato, Tomix and MA as their finish is more matt and lacks the shine of the other manufacturers. MA special liveries are particularly good and I think probably better than similar by the others.

But GM has the better motor over all the others.

The only drawback of MA trains, is that some of their details have become slightly subpar when compared to more recent models by other manufacturers; if they don't update their moulds. For example, the front beams on their Tobu 8000. But some of their other details are, I think, superior to others.

[Wolf]

As for the "wich manufacturer do I prefer" discussion, I admit I was a Kato boy from the very start. I think the higher availability and their overall presence literally made them my initial prime choice. When you know nothing, their sheer presence makes you stumble over them.

 

Over the course of my endavours, I personally started to prefer Tomix over Kato, mainly on Shinkansen over the very simple reason of powered couplers.

 

Now that I was fortunate enough to purchase most mainstream stuff I want, I start to lean towards MicroAce as my preferred manufacturer, as they do a great job with their models, never had a defect so far and they do the more niche stuff that really makes a collection/layout shine imho.

 

Today, I still choose Kato when their train is DCC friendly as my soldering skills are not really great, but its literally the only reason by now. I still prefer their cases over others tho. I like them bulky.

 

For most Mainstream stuff I switched over to Tomix, and MicroAce for all niche. I personally do not own enough Greenmax to judge, but seen them at a friends place and cant say anything bad about them, would judge them same as MicroAce.

 

 

[SwallowAngel]

1 hour ago, disturbman said:

I was being provocative, but I do think Kato is held as the better manufacturer for no real reasons beside exposure/fanboyism. All the manufacturers have their positives and negatives; and some of the compromises Kato take irks me. Like how they cheaped out on their two-axle freight wagons by not putting springs in the coupler assembly. 

Admittedly, this doesn't quite fit the topic, but I do have to agree with @Kamome, at least in terms of steam locomotives. While Tomix does offer interesting locomotives (especially the recent C55 release), I still can't get over the noticeable gaps around the bogies. While some Kato Steamers also suffer from this issue, they generally do a much better job at hiding gaps. Kato also tends to have a good selection of steam locomotives available at all times, while Tomix only seems to release a steamer every so often.

 

As for MicroAce, well, to put it bluntly their molds look simply outdated. They seem to have an issue with correct proportions, especially in terms of height and locomotive driving wheel proportions. I addition to that, the motors still stick out of the cab, not exactly appealing. You could get a better proportioned locomotive by buying a resin printer and slapping that onto a Kato or Tomix chassis...

 

 That only goes for steam locomotives though, can't really say anything about the other types of products

[disturbman]

I don't know if we will see new SLs from MA. They haven't released one since 2019 and the rhythm of release was already slowing down. They would need to fully re-engineer their offering for it to be acceptable, they can't reuse 20 year-old designs like they were doing in 2019-18. These designs are not acceptable anymore in terms of expected features and detail quality. I think they are aware of that and are probably leaving the market to Kato. I don't know if MA as the finances and capacity to bring a fully updated SL to the market (notably quality control at their Chinese contractor). They are a much smaller entity than Kato and Tomix.

To go back to the conversation, as I already said, each manufacturer as its positives and negatives. You can't compare their whole range as the products are not of the same vintage. Kato heavily invested in its SLs and trams, and I think these are far superior products than the competition, and until someone else does the same, I would chose their products over the competition when presented with a choice. Like I wouldn't buy a standard Kiha 40 that is not Tomix as their HG model is far above the competition, there is a reason why MA and Kato quit that market. But for other models, the difference can be a wash and is down to personal preferences. I would probably prefer a Tomix Shinkansen over a Kato, though I dislike their diaphragm, as I find the Tomix models feel less cheap than Kato's.

The positive part is that I see that, despite its smaller size, MA started to bring redesigned models to market, like the North Rainbow Express. I think we can expect this to become the norm. Which is a positive development.
 

[roadstar_na6]

It really comes down to a decision you have to make per model in my opinion. If multiple manufacturers offer the exact same model there are loads of comparison photos online on various blogs and websites so you can make a decision before buying stuff.

 

Personally I have Kato, Tomix and MA stuff and none of them have any massive flaws or issues that bug me to the extent that I say the brand as a whole is bad. Also, they're all vastly superior to European stuff 😄

[disturbman]

So vastly superior 😄

 

7 minutes ago, roadstar_na6 said:

It really comes down to a decision you have to make per model in my opinion.

 

Exactly.

[kndy]

I own the KATO version of the Yamanote but I also plan to get the TOMIX version.  I basically use the Yamanote for a long time in my life and from the 205 to present, I'm actually quite fond of it that I'll buy anything Yamanote (inc. the Plarail).

 

I know that KATO has a really hardcore following with diehards and they tend to be more vocal than Takara Tomy (TOMIX) fans.

 

Granted, I see the same thing on diecast metals vehicles with Takara Tomy (TOMICA) fans vs. Mattel Hot Wheels fans as well... which is also very vocal on who is the best in quality. I'm a hardcore Tomica collector and don't really get into the Mattel stuff (Hot Wheels or Matchbox), but on occasion I see what the other side sells for Japanese vehicles (as I pretty much will buy anything Isuzu Elf, Sylvia, Skyline GT-R, etc.).

 

While I own more KATO trains than TOMIX trains (which my collection of TOMIX is growing), I personally utilize more TOMIX tracks, TOMIX structures, TOMIX containers, TOMIX freight cars, TOMIX power controllers, TomyTec BusColle, TomyTec TruckColle, TOMIX figurines for my setup. 

 

But at the end of the day, it may come down to preference or how much you are willing to pay or what you feel works best for your setup.  But I really do not think you can go wrong with either company as they both are longstanding companies and event at train events, at panels both company reps are often respectful and compliment each other and each other's products.