Hi guys just a quick intro Ant from New Zealand

[Antnz]

I'm at the planning stage for a N Scale layout using Tomix fine track ( my first layout ),im using Anyrail ( getting my head around it ). As you guys have so much more knowledge than me and having been hanging around reading your threads i thought best to show my plan thus far for your thoughts.

Room size 5.500 Meters X 1.620 Meters Window heights from floor to bottom of window .750 apprx ( my biggest problem ) i will be sitting though.

Im aiming at an English rural country style layout,with villages and steam locos.Also aiming at getting some height (hills so forth ) but window height may be a problem.

Why did i choose Tomix,because of availability and its a fraction of the cost of Kato here in NZ.Ive just started buying direct from Japan ( no problems )

Well i think id better show you my plan i would welcome your advice and comments.

P,S Turn out points started to rack up price wise and i have removed quite a few.

Thank you

Regards

Ant

[Englehart]

hello Antnz

 

Welcome to the forums

[cteno4]

Welcome Ant! Glad you found us and have found the forums informative.

 

looks like a nice long layout for good runs and nice run of scenery area downtown he center and at the ends. Any thought of burying part of one end or back to get a hillside and make tracks disappear for a bit? Only issue with that idea though is access to the track for cleaning and derailments. Will the layout be built into the wall or be free standing. If free standing I’d recommend looking at if you can put it all on wheels to be able to pull it from the wall to get access from the back side as stretching out 80cm over the layout to work on rear areas is a big streatch. You can do it for a second to grab something but sustained work is hard leaning that far over the layout. Would also enable access holes along the back if you do have buried track.

 

maybe design i places where you might want to add a yard or something and just put the point into the mainline where it would go and you can add it later when you can afford more points w.o having to tear up the mainline then.

 

other suggestion is always make the bench work in sections that are reasonable size to move and bolt together. Murphy’s law of layouts is as soon as you build a layout into a room you will have to move just when the layout starts to look nice!

 

hugh funny finentrack is so much cheaper than Unitrak in NZ, opposite here, but we have Katousa so they keep things well fed whereas the Tomix distribution deal with Walthers was a disaster and Walthers is the markup King!

 

start a topic on this in the layout topic when you begin on the layout it will be fun to watch evolve!

 

cheers,

 

jeff

 

[MeTheSwede]

Welcome to the forum!

 

Congratulations on picking a great hobby, scale and track brand, and on having such an abundance of space to devote to a layout!

 

As for the layout plan...  A double track loop with two passing loops and a siding is very uncomplicated so there aren't really any technical aspects to comment on. It all depends on what you want to do with your model railway. I could say I wouldn't build it like that, but I don't know what you like and it's of course the later that counts. Some people wants to operate trains in a realistic manner. Some people are mainly into making scenery. Others just want to relax and watch trains go round and round. Some people wants a bit of all. What do you want to do with your layout?

 

You say it's your first layout, so maybe you aren't really sure? Luckily you've gone for a track brand designed to be disassembled and reassembeled again and again, so you may want to just try out stuff and learn more about what you like. Even if you are pretty confident in what you want to make, it's a large layout you're building that will take a very long time to complete scenery for. You could start at one end and not have to decide on what the other end of the layout should look like for in a long time.

 

Someone said all the good small and medium track plans have already been built. What you want might be out there waiting for you to find it. Or atleast something that you can modify to fit your space and interest.

 

 

[Antnz]

Thank you all for your welcome and replies.

cteno4 yes i did realize i was getting a bit deep being 800 mm across ( i started at 600mmm looked a bit crammed in, went to 750mm looked better went to 800 looked perfect for adding scenery )and i pulled the top tracks down hoping this would be enough to reach( hoping i can use the window sills to put the end of a board on to rest on to reach across the layout if needed ).Yes it is against the wall and will be built on a wooden framed table.I think i will take your advice and concentrate on a more substantial yard and station for steam era.It will be a permanent layout and im aware it will take a long time to complete but thats the fun im hoping.

It was a surprise how much cheaper it was to buy from Japan but also it was the supply issue, i didnt want to get half way through building and find i cant get any more track here in NZ. I will certainly let you guys know when i get past the design stage and start building.Cost of timber here is also through the roof,and i may be forced to using polystyrene for the base on top of custom board for the base board.

MeTheSwede thank you,good to here my design has little technical issues i was worried,i should have said its DC analogue so i have been worried i might cross electrics somewhere and blow up a train or controller.

You are correct it is more about the scenery but also ive always loved good old steam engines and that era.I would also like to play about abit though,shunting ect,round and round isn't really me.You are correct i haven't been to sure about which way to turn ( so much to see ,so many layouts ) but i did stumble across Pendon Museum and Pendon Vale and it is based on what i had in my head,farms cottages river villages ect,and scratch building the cottages in card ( im cheap )

It will take a long time but enjoyment in the making,i will take your advice and brake it into sections at a time ,cost is an issue but have to say not as expensive as first thought.

Thank you all again for the warm welcome and advice,i feel a little more at ease and if im going in the correct direction.

Thank you

Ant

[miyakoji]

Hi @Antnz welcome to the forum!

[cteno4]

ant,

 

really can’t work more than a very short bit reaching back 80cm even if you have the window sill there as then you are working one handed and that’s not much use doing much of anything but clean track or grab a detailed car. It’s laying the track and then doing scenery that requires a lot of time spent bending way over the layout. It’s also usually fine work back there where you need more fine hand movements that’s super hard with your arms stretched out way ahead of you. Experiment some with trying to work on stuff 50-80cm out in front of you. Other issue is as you do scenery you have to be more and more careful about stuff in the front and center of the layout when working on the rear, so the further you stretch out the more likely to snag or crush something.

 

best solution is to put wheels on your supporting framework so you can pull it away from wall and pop up on the back side to work on that stuff. Really don’t want to paint yourself into a corner on a big layout.

 

jeff

[Antnz]

Thank you Jeff

I have had a hard look at my design and added a yard etc as you suggested and i must say looks more like a railway know.But i think you are correct it is far to deep to work on so i will try and slim it down,problem is it alters the curves a lot ( turn arounds )i think i was trying to leave too much space for fields and farms ect.

The two ends are hard against walls back and ends so i cant roll away from the wall but i will look hard at what i have and take your advice and try and slime it down.i have herd 700mm ( 2 ft .5 inch )is ok and 600mm better ( 2 ft ) but seems so narrow to fit good sizes fields in.

Any way this is what i had come up with,i will show you and have another look at shaving it down

Cheers Jeff

[cteno4]

Ant,

 

well if you could make it a few inches shorter than the lenght of the room you could have it pull back to the other wall to give you like 30cm behind the layout to snake up into from under the layout into that space.

 

sorry this is the heartbreak of layout design in trying to find the best permutation for what you want and what works. It’s always a compromise!  But always good to experiment on a table to see what is comfortable reach for you to work at. There are platforms you can get that let you kind of layout out over the layout, but they are bulky and it’s a bit awkward way to work. I’m just super sensitive to this issue as when I was young I made enormous exhibit design models at 3/4” scale that were up to 20’ across and I had to hang from ropes from the rafters to work on things in the middle. Taught me early to always take the reach into account and I’m 6’4”.

 

keep at it, it’s worth taking your time to research out all the bits well so you get on the best path to your eventual layout.

 

jeff

[Antnz]

Jeff,

 

Cheers Jeff,nah im not heartbroken your right, i dont know why i thought i could reach across that far ( greed i think ) As you say better to get it right know rather than trying to put it right later. I am looking at it again with a more critical eye.

 

Ant

[MeTheSwede]

I started writing this before I saw your latest post.

 

 

On 3/25/2023 at 1:58 AM, Antnz said:

MeTheSwede thank you,good to here my design has little technical issues i was worried,i should have said its DC analogue so i have been worried i might cross electrics somewhere and blow up a train or controller.

 

 

In case of a shortcut a Tomix controller will stop the current and it's indicator light will start flashing until you turn it off and fix the problem. It should be newbie proof, but obviously you shouldn't test this feature unnecessarily.

 

Let your hand be a train and follow around the track in the same direction. If ever you reach the same place twice, but travelling in the opposite direction to your last visit, there's a problem that needs solving. Otherwise, you should be fine.

 

If there are spurs you can't reach when traveling from the place where your power feeder sits without your hand changing direction along the way, those spurs won't be powered. You'll need to install addictional power feeders.

 

If you have multiple power feeders that could potentially power the same track piece, make sure they are installed the same way, i.e. one of them won't try to make your train go right while the other tries to make the same train go left.

 

If you use more than one train controler, make sure not more than one is feeding the same part of track at any time. This will be relevant for any double track layout where trains can travel from one track to the other. Tomix uses a control box for this, which can be used to make sure a control box is turned off the same moment points are changed in such a way to make the two tracks connected. I've described this somewhere in my Yamahama layout thread.

 

 

On 3/25/2023 at 1:58 AM, Antnz said:

You are correct it is more about the scenery but also ive always loved good old steam engines and that era.I would also like to play about abit though,shunting ect,round and round isn't really me.

 

I must say I was a bit surprise to read this, because what I saw on the plan, I think is very much round and round and not shunting, nor scenery.

 

 

 

On 3/25/2023 at 1:58 AM, Antnz said:

i did stumble across Pendon Museum and Pendon Vale and it is based on what i had in my head,farms cottages river villages ect,and scratch building the cottages in card ( im cheap )

 

Thanks for making me rewatch some videos of that wonderful layout!

 

[MeTheSwede]

I think most people trying to design a home layout tend to do things in the wrong order.  They start with a table shape and end with planing for scenery. Don't do

1. Room shape -> 2. Table shape -> 3. Track plan -> 4. Scenic planning.

Instead try to do:

1. Room shape -> 2. Scenic planning -> 3. Operating plan -> 4. Track plan -> 5. Table shape.

 

Going back and fourth when needed...

 

With operating plan I mean planning for how you will operate your railway. For instance, an engine going from the engine shed to pick up car at various places, sort them at a yard, deliver new cars to the various places and return to the engine shed. From your updated layout plan, driving from the engine shed to the goods yard requires closing down the main line and going through 10 points. That's very impractical, both in real life and on a model railway (leading to complicated electrics and not allowing for trains to go round on the main line while shunting).

 

Designing steam area station areas is quite complicated. That's one of the reasons why I think it can be a good idea to start with something small and temporary, learning more before trying to target the big and permanent.

 

 

 

I only managed to get some short and maybe not so clear points into writing this time, as I have a visitor here to tend to now.

 

 

 

[Antnz]

Thank you MeTheSwede

All good advice and i am taking it all on board,i am looking hard at my plan and the practicality's of working on it,and using it also.

I will return to re read all your advice as i re plan my layout.

I have already purchased two Tomix controllers and some track ( which i should not have done yet as the curves may not be what i need )but i wanted to see what sort of size the track is in person ( its small,and i like it a lot )

I have purchased quit a lot of straights,which appears to be the back bone of most layouts.I wont let the curves Ive already purchased alter what may be needed in my new layout though,i think i made a novice decision in rushing in a bit too fast in buying the curves too early.

 

Thank you again MeTheSwede for taking the time to give your advice

 

Cheers

[MeTheSwede]

I've got a lot of spare track left from designing Yamahama, including pretty much any type of curve radius there is. I find those to have been good investments. The design process for the track plan took me almost a year, not counting a couple of minor additions and adjustments made later. I had to operate trains on the layout in order to catch various impractiabilities and imperfections. In the meantime I assembled buildings and other moveable scenery.

 

There are lots of little shelf layouts for English steam area on the internet, that you'd maybe like to build a copy of (track wise) to try out some shunting on.  Maybe you'll find something you'd like to use as a station area on your large layout.

 

Or maybe you'll eventually see the light and start constructing a Japanese layout instead. 😉

 

 

[Antnz]

Ive been without a computer for a week ( it died ) so apologies for the late reply.Being without a computer worked out well,i had time to think over all the advise  ive been given here and get some stuff down on paper full size to get an idea on space.

1. Room shape -> 2. Scenic planning -> 3. Operating plan -> 4. Track plan -> 5. Table shape. Ive been looking at this hard and been trying to adhere to this plan,seems to be working as ideas are falling into place slowly.

I'm glad im not the only one who has purchased spar track,by altering my layout and working more around scenery instead of track i may end up using more of my curves than i expected.

I am adhering to your advise and not rushing into anything to fast.I don't have any trains to try as yet but keeping my eyes peeled for some bargains.

I have managed to grab a copy of Chris Pilton Cottage Modelling for Pendon for $8 NZ so will try to get some practice at modelling some buildings to scale.

I have cut the size of depth down to 700mm i think as my layout will be quite a bit lower than most i may get away with it.We have a kitchen bench that is 700mm deep and seems to be manageable.Only put a tape on it the other evening been using it for years.

I will have a look at some Japanese layouts but i dont think you will turn me ( keep trying thou )

Cheers and happy Easter to all

Ant

[cteno4]

21 minutes ago, Antnz said:

I will have a look at some Japanese layouts but i dont think you will turn me ( keep trying thou )

Don’t hang out around here too much then. When you see the variety of Japanese trains, good prices, and the variety of scenes Japanese trains can can protypically run through (say just about anything including a building), you may get converted easier than your think!

 

cheers,

 

jeff

[Antnz]

LOL

you caught me as i was doing just that and i must say they do look good.

That said i am an Englishman at heart and have my heart set on the English country side layout

But you never know

cheers

Ant

[cteno4]

I mention this as we watched the same thing happen to many here on the forum. Kind of the spider and the fly.

 

jeff

[Antnz]

Ive spent the evening looking at Japanese trains and the choice is extensive i have to say,prices very good and rather appealing.

That web is very sticky

Ant

[cteno4]

Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated!

 

jeff

[Antnz]

Hi guys

A quick update,yes im still in planing stage

I have a quick question about lift up sections across door ways (as shown in my plan,ignor the track still playing)

I cant find any info on using Tomix track for lift ups or lift outs.Im wondering about the wiring or perhaps i could use the expandable sections Tomix have to join the track.

I hope thats not to garbled

Ant

[cteno4]

Ant,

 

liftout sections are a custom build. Basically you need to have a baseboard like a 1”x6” piece of lumber that your lift out track sits on. The board needs a trough on both modules on either end of the lift out that the ends of the lift out sections rest in just tight enough as to not move but you can still lift it out. It helps to do this with the ends of the lift out piece being cut slightly angled in off vertical so it slips in easier as if vertical it Ted’s to wedge in place if one end is lifted faster than the other.

 

you will need to cut the coupler bits off the ends of the tracks as there will be no couplers between the ends and lift out piece. once the lift out board is all fit in and ends secured you can then lay track across it aligning up with the track ends at the lift out ends.
 

To power the track in the lift off area you need to make some metal contact pads on the bottom of one end of the lift out piece and matching ones on the trough end in the module at that end. Tricky thing with 4 contacts is getting them so they all contact at once so this usually requires spring pins for contacts or pins with magnets to engage. Alternative is to just have a like 4’ piece of wire attaching the liftout to one of the end modules.

 

last on one of the module ends you can also put a pressure switch in that is pushed down by the lift out section and keeps module power on to the track on the module on each side. When lift section is removed the switch is then off and track power odd on the modules at either end so you can’t accidentally do a Gomez adams with your train onto the floor with the lift out section is out.

 

you can also do a hinged, drawbridge, but that takes some fiddling with the hinge mechanism as the track on top can run into itself at the hinge point. One of our local modular clubs has a whole mechanize vertical lift bridge on their setup like 7’ tall! it’s like a big doorway and the bridge travels up and down the frame. Quite the engineering feat and I keep meaning to get one of them to show me how they engineered it.

 

im sure tons of plans out on the web and check YouTube.

 

cheers

 

jeff

 

 

[Antnz]

Jeff,

Thank you for your reply,i will read it through a few times,but it does make sense.Seems to be the same for track with integrated ballast or without,which is what i was looking for an answer to.

I am being pro active with looking at the lift out as im about ready to start building the base.

Did you notice that ive made the baseboards a lot narrower ( see i have been taking your advice )

Sent for these to use as locating pins for the lift out

 

https://www.amazon.com/TEHAUX-Sleeve-Connectors-Sockets-Alignment/dp/B08MPQKGKY

 

Cheers

Ant

 

[cteno4]

Ant,

 

cool, I was amazed how thin we could do the 1m 0.5m on our last club layout, they were about 25mm. Next one we did about 30mm as the frame work was done in strips of 12mm Baltic birch ply.

 

those are cool pins and may be perfect for both location and track power connections. You can just clamp the lift out piece in position and drill thru the lift out plank and module to get everything in perfect alignment. Just have to drill nice and vertical for all holes.

 

Ahh I see those are furniture pins, perfect for this use.

 

cheers

 

jeff

Edited July 15, 2023 by disturbman

[Antnz]

Taking longer than expected to design,but i think this is along the lines that im after.I would welcome your comments or any improvements i could make.

Thank you all in advance
 

 

Ant

Edited July 15, 2023 by disturbman